gcom007

Fair enough, like I said, it just gets old hearing it over and over, and even the panic in general. I know we're 10th. We were worst last week. But you know, I don't even remember what we were. 12th? 14th? I don't care. We're 10th now. Oh well. I still have very, very little doubt that we'll be fine down the stretch. I think it's anyone's guess as to who will take the division, though I think Chicago likely will when all is said and done. But we'll be right behind them and we'll make the playoffs at which point I think we have as good of a chance as any team. I'm cool with that. It makes it a lot easier to sweat out a slow start and these injuries. After all, we're only going to get better as the season goes on in general and once we start getting guys back, especially Franzen, it'll be like making trades for nothing. I'm just not worried and I've really got nothing negative to say about this team. Hell, the biggest problem is Lebda and even that's barely worth talking about as it will get resolved before it really matters. Either Lilja will be back (and it's looking more likely and that's great in my opinion) or we'll make a trade to tighten things up down the line. We're in an odd place right now with all the injuries and the cap. We'll have to ride it out for awhile, but we'll be fine when it matters.

Cam Ward's tonight was the most painful for me to watch. Anything having to do with groins and skate blades just makes my skin crawl...

He bought us a trip to Game 7 of the Stanley Cup Finals when our team was far too injured to get there any other way. He stole many, many games in the playoffs last year. His harshest critics even in the media gave him his due for proving that he can steal games again and again in the post-season. So did the board. Hell, even Mindfly was on it. But of course, the fickle fans forget that when the TEAM plays a s***ty game and we lose a game in November despite the fact that just about half our team is injured or sick and we just played 3 great games against teams at the top of the league in terms of the standings. We didn't play well tonight. Osgood didn't play well. Toronto did everything right and they're due to start playing better. So we got beat up pretty bad. Oh well, it happens. This whole whip on the goalie thing gets so old, especially with Osgood, who has proven more than just about any other goalie in the league the last few years by being the best goalie when it matters most. And still, people go on and on about how he doesn't steal a game against Toronto...in November. That's like saying, "Yeah, I got a blowjob from Jessica Alba but I found it a bit toothy..." Alright? Done?

There's also a reason why he would've won the Conn Smythe in June had we won the Cup. And another for why he's going to record his 400th win this season. And he's also won a couple Cups on his own steam as well... And I'm not saying the Islanders and Blues were horrible at all, but they weren't the stacked Red Wings teams that people use to minimize Osgood's accomplishments. And furthermore, if you followed the press surrounding that 1st year Islanders team in particular, it's clear that many players on the team as well as those evil sports writers seemed to think that Osgood in many ways "carried" that team to success. And Osgood could easily sign for $4-5 million with another team after his last two playoff outings, not to mention the All Star season he had when he signed that deal in which he was at the top of the league in all major goalie stats. The reason he's getting paid $1.45 million this year is because he's a class act and completely demonstrative of what it means to not only be a team guy, but to be a Detroit Red Wing. I don't think there are many guys who bleed for this team like Osgood, because he's been to hell and back with them. He's been shipped away only to return to still play second fiddle only to ascend to the top once again and outplay just about every other goaltender in the post-season the last two years. Remember, Osgood was the one who stayed out in the hot sun signing autographs for fans for 3 hours after the Stanley Cup parade while the rest of the team was at Cheli's partying. The guy is a Detroit Red Wing to the core, he loves winning, he loves this team and he loves this city. That is why he makes $1.45 million a year. You can rip on his five whole all you want and flip-flop between loving him and hating him, but don't question his dedication and love for this team by suggesting that his salary is a reflection of the kind of goalie he is. It's not, at all. It is, however, an outstanding reflection of the kind of person he is.

Maybe Jimmy. Not Ozzie. Osgood has played great at times but he's really only had one "bad" game, that being the 2 goal, 4 shot wonder. Every other game he maybe hasn't been great, but the team as a whole has been abyssmal. Not Biron, Brodeur, Luongo, not any goalie is going to change many outcomes when the rest of the team has been horrid. And Howard is a rookie who hasn't really played great but hasn't bombed enough to justify making a move at this point when we've got far more important areas that need work right now and minimal cap room to work with. Something to consider about Osgood and goaltending in general... Has Osgood ever missed the playoffs in his career? Even on the Islanders and Blues? No, and in fact, the Islanders were terrible before he came on board. The previous season they were among the worst if not the worst team in terms of record. But here's a more telling question: has Luongo or Brodeur ever missed the playoffs? Yes. Think about that a moment.

"Hindsight: it's like foresight without a future." I think there's a big difference in recognizing that management isn't perfect and thus not holding things like this against them. Again, it's blatantly obvious that he failed to show the Wings what he was capable of otherwise they wouldn't have let him go. They're not stupid. Part of not being perfect is not having a crystal ball. Hell, maybe part of not being perfect just means that your Mike Babcock. Maybe Mike Babcock is generally a damn good coach, but maybe he drove Quincey nuts and thus Quincey was unable to put his game together for the Detroit Red Wings while Babcock was coach. Whether the Wings could see that or not, the bottom line is that Babcock's the coach and Quincey failed to do what he needed to in order to convince Babcock to give Ken a call and say, "I want Quincey on my team. Do what you have to do to make that happen." I mean, honestly, what the hell do you want anyone to say? What do you want Holland and Babcock to say or do? They're not ignorant people. Quincey didn't do enough to prove what he was capable of. That's all that matters. Because again, maybe it really was as simple as the environment. Maybe he hated Babcock. Maybe he hated the idea of being so far behind some of the stars we had floating around. Maybe he was intimidated and scared s***less. It doesn't really matter why because whatever it was, he failed while he was here otherwise he'd still be here. The Wings have proven more than a few times that they will do all they can to give guys a chance to prove themselves. If you're going to question the management for letting him go, ask what might've happened if he had stayed. Perhaps he would've floundered under the pressure. At the time, it was a far more likely outcome to predict than him becoming a 20-25 minute, 40 point scoring defenseman.

Here's the thing though, and it boils down to consistency: by the end of the year, Zetterberg will be annihilating Flip in terms of average power play points proportional to power play time. Z got a real slow start this year as he basically didn't have a preseason and who knows how healthy he was even in Sweden. If not for the fact that it was important for him to play in those games being a Swedish superstar and all, he might have sat out some more. And now I'm not one to complain about guys getting points or goals, as far as the raw numbers go and how it boils down in the plays, one of Flip's assists was as secondary as they come as the primary assist was as much of a non-factor. That was on the Williams point shot which really boils down to Williams making a great shot and hence a great play pretty much on his own accord. His other assist was certainly a great pass through the crease to Williams though. The goal that he scored wasn't exactly brilliant; wasn't it a deflection off of Kronwall's shot? A Holmstrom goal? Again, not complaining about getting a goal, but on 1 of his 3 points he was a guy who made the play to get a goal. The other two points, other guys made plays, though I give him credit for keeping that stick down in front of the net because as is clear, you never know what'll happen when a shot comes through. Again, I'm not complaining about points and I'm not even saying we wouldn't be better off with him on the power play perhaps given our present situation, but trying to compare him to guys like Z and Franzen isn't going to pan out long run unless he proves far more long run. He hasn't proven that much in the short run let alone the long run and this year of all years, you cannot say it's because he's failed to get opportunities. He got the minutes once again and put up a few points, but especially when breaking down the actual points, I struggle to believe that the consistency would be there. I'm not looking to take his points away, but I think had he not been injured, I think that it's highly unlikely that he'd continue to put up power play numbers at such a pace. We'll see once he's back, but it's nothing I would put my money on. And at the end of the day, despite getting more ice time than he's gotten at any point in his career, and despite the fact that so many claimed he had such a great start and the whole "Carhart Hardest Worker" thing or whatever it was, what's his point projection for the year should he have played 82 games at his current pace? 44 points. While projections are what they are, that's not really saying much for his "breakout year" considering he's getting so much ice time not to mention plenty of power play time as well. Sorry. I really do like the guy and all, but I like Kirk Maltby too. That doesn't mean I expect him to put up 60 points and play great on the power play. We in Detroit of all places should know there's far more to measure a guy by than merely points. I've never knocked Flips character, work ethic, defensive ability, etc...I've knocked his offensive ability. I don't think it's there and he's done very, very little to prove me wrong. Again, get over it.

This is also more of what I remember. Like I said, Detroit isn't the place for everybody. We could trade Lebda and he could finally get his act together and become a solid NHL defenseman. Would it make sense then to piss and moan about it? No. Again, you never know what it takes or where a guy is going to find his way, let alone if they ever will at all. But the bottom line at this point is that Lebda's had enough time as a Wing to prove whether or not he can make it work in Detroit and time and again he's coming up short. At the very least, he won't be back next year.

What has Flip done on the power play EVER to substantiate such claims? You get on my case for bringing criticism to Flip, but what do you expect me to do when you make such ludicrous claims as these? Again, I'm not out to get Flip, but sometimes you people say such ridiculous things about the guy. The Franzen comment in particular is ABSURD. Franzen's actually had his breakout season and he's shown consistency in being a big-game STAR PLAYER ever since. Get back to me once Flip actually has his ever-promised "breakout" season that justifies your ridiculous, blatant fanboy-minded claims.

Cam Ward in the hospital after getting cut by Nash's skate in the (deep breath boys) groin...trail of blood on the ice from him being taken off sent chills down my spine...

In regards to Quincey/Lebda, wasn't Lebda coming off a solid playoff performance? I don't really remember for sure, but I feel like that was the reason at the time. Sure, it was the wrong decision, but people make mistakes and the reality is, Lebda could goto another team and get his act together and Quincey couldve stayed here and sucked. It's tough to call how some of these young guys will develop. Detroit isn't the right place for everybody.

I'd have him room with Nick on the road. I'd have him sitting and watching fro the press box, and taking notes on Nick. He'd then write post game reports with a theme of "what would Nick do?" Nah, f***it. I'd just tell Holland to trade him, buy him out, whatever to get him off the Wings. He's consistently terrible and we just can't afford that. I don't know what it is because if he could get his head straight he could be descent, but it's just not happening in Detroit. Getting Lilja back will be heavenly.

I've been laughing for awhile now. I can't get mad in a game like this. It's just not worth the energy. But man, if Lebda didn't stick out like a sore thumb before, he sure does now. And to think, we used to complain about Dandenault...

"It's been a rough night for Lebda." Hey CBC, just an FYI, this is actually a pretty standard night for Lebda...

I think you underestimate how humorous the reaction he gets can be to some, albeit, mostly just to him.

Ugh........I'm going to be thrilled when this one's over.

Oh, Mike Milbury...

I don't remember who, but someone called this in the last game.

I'm gonna blame Grant Hill and Mateen Cleeves for this disaster of a game. They let this city down and it's still haunting us. I also blame W. Bush...and Obama...

hell, as shifty (apple autoformatting is cool) as we look tonight, I'm not convinced we still won't win by 4 goals...

Never wouldve thought six months ago that I'd be upset about Williams being injured. This is unreal. If this is erious And it very well could be, we might finally see a trade go down. Unbelievable...

They're playing so flat I can't even be mad. I've just laughed at this team so far in this game. They look incredibly apathetic out there. I miss Eaves right now. He's good for some effort.

Fail.

Wow. Amazing. Someone who has a reasonable opinion and they even take the time to support what they're saying. It's refreshing to see such thought out responses and I definitely agree with the analysis. He's rock solid in terms of his positioning which is why I think he's been able to continue to improve through the years as opposed to losing a step with age. He doesn't get caught having to rely on reflexes so much because he tends to be in the right place at the right time. He's great at reading plays and just generally is a real smart goalie. He's got his weaknesses as you said, but hes got a lot of strengths as well that seem to be paying off for us when it matters most. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he signed an extension next year because as said, I don't think age will affect his play negatively as much as it does for the more acrobatic goalies and clearly he's still capable of being a big game goalie as he's proved two post-seasons in a row. There's no reason for him to retire if he can keep that up and there's no reason for the Wings to look elsewhere when they can have a goalie like Osgood for a $1-1.5 million cap hit.

Sure, there are. Others like me, Vladifan, Doc Holiday, SouthernWingsFan among others tend to call it how it is. We'll tell you when Osgood had a bad game and we'll be honest when the team didn't give him a chance to have a good game. Believe it or not, that does happen. It's not like we're just making excuses for Osgood for the sake of propping him up. And besides that, the "people" you refer to that get on the D as opposed to Osgood are profoundly outnumbered by the people who want to shovel the majority of the blame on Osgood. Again, for clarification: Osgood's been mostly solid this year, far better than last year and this was being said before the last 3 games even. He had that real stinker game and he's had some soft goals here and there (all goalies do...), but more often than not Osgood's been playing well enough to give this team a chance to win. Far too often early on the team didn't seem too concerned with winning and they left Osgood out to dry. There were games we lost that would've been far worse if not for Osgood's strong play, but the reality is, he can't do it all. Again, no one's saying he's been perfect, but he hasn't been remotely as bad as many have said. This play the last three games isn't "out of nowhere." He's had many games like this, but finally the TEAM is playing a full game and giving him support. The TEAM is playing like a TEAM. Everyone's doing their part and doing it fairly well and what do you know, suddenly we're winning games and Osgood's stats are going up. I do think Osgood's played his best in these last 3 games, but as many said, that was bound to happen too as he got more games under his belt and got into the groove again. Funny enough, many of the same people that weren't dead set on crucifying Osgood were also the one's not panicking about the rest of the team either. We said, "give it time, it's October..." And now November rolls around and suddenly we're on a 3 game winning streak, back chasing the 1st spot in the Central, Osgood's got good stats, Z and D are superstars, defense is playing defense... It's not that we really care so much about defending Osgood, it seems really that many of us are just far more reasonable in our analysis and not prone to succumbing to knee-jerk reactions and irrational hypefests. And thus, time tends to prove us to be right. Imagine that...