gcom007

Damn that replay makes me want to smack Leino but I have to remind myself...ROOKIE...ROOKIE...ROOKIE...

Two posts...

Man oh man, that's not a break....

Very true...

Nice play by Bertuzzi there. I really think Bertuzzi will come up big for us down the line if he stays healthy. He's definitely had some good moments.

I'll take that. Talk about getting the bounces... Oh wait, it's still 5-2... Ral......nah.

Oh yeah, thanks again Lebda. You deserve a -1 for that one.

Listen, Howard is hardly a favorite of mine, and I don't trust him at all yet, but he's had some descent outings and I think it's worth giving him more time. I don't think anything should (or will...) until January. You've gotta give this team more time. You've gotta see how Howard pans out not to mention if Lilja can possibly make it back. We've got more room now with Franzen out to make a move, but you want to make the right one. And... Good penalty by Flip there. Probably 5-0 if not for desperation and I'll take it. Proved wise. And... GOAL! Again, good penalty by Flip to stop a goal, good kill and then we score. I like.

What do you people expect our goalies to do when they have no team in front of them???????? Just saying... I've never been one of the negative people when it comes to Osgood but I have been quite questioning of Howard in the last year or so. That said, I actually think he's been alright so far this year and deserving of the chance to be an NHLer. But Howard and Osgood can only do so much. They're going to give up soft goals sometimes because EVERY GOALIE DOES. But you can't blame them for giving up a ton of goals when they get next to no help on defense from this team lately. Edit: When I say never one to be negative, I mean never one to be negative for the sake of being negative, like most people on LGW's...

No one can really excuse last night, but generally speaking he's playing much better so far this season compared to last. I absolutely agree. He's been the sole reason why we were in some of those games as the rest of the skaters on the ice were content to let the other team do whatever they want in our zone for long stretches at a time. I said it somewhere else a few days ago, but if this was last season, given how awful the defense has been, he'd be giving up the same 4, 5, 6 goals a night on a fairly regular basis. That has not been the case thus far this year and more so, the opposing teams are getting even higher quality of scoring chances than they were last year more often lately. Think back to that Colorado game where he had a shutout going for 50 minutes and looked outstanding all the while. Remember what happened in the last ten minutes? The skaters did next to nothing. I mean, it might as well have been Ozzie vs. the Av's and he's the only reason we didn't lose in regulation. Nearly the same thing against Phoenix. The skaters stopped playing. Now, can Osgood stand to improve? Sure. And he no doubt will. It's October mind you and again, more or less he hasn't had an awful start. I think he'll have a strong November. But I'm telling you, it doesn't matter who we have in net the way the defense has been playing lately, we will lose if it continues. Osgood cannot be expected to do it all and he's typically doing more than enough and certainly has outperformed the defense more often than not thus far. That's the truth. If you want to call Osgood sub par, you've gotta take it back to the defense and recognize that they then have been utterly terrible.

Yes. The Lilja circumstance is a major monkey wrench in this equation. If he can come back, suddenly you've got a lot of defensive problems solved in getting Lebda/Meech out of the regular rotation. We've already got a lot more cap room and Holland likely will try to make a move at some point, but if we get Lilja back and the D straightens up, we'd probably be better off trying to land another guy who can chip in 15-20 goals or perhaps even more. It's sticky... But hey, thank goodness it's simply October!

Preach it. I love how I was getting bashed all off season whenever I said that we need to manage our expectations with our rookies because, gasp, they're rookies!

I was getting ripped on in the off-season for suggesting that people had too high of expectations for Leino in his rookie year, but yeah, look at the situation now. It's one thing to come up from Grand Rapids out of nowhere in, hell, February or March, and get a streak going. It's another thing to go through the off-season knowing that you're now going to be an NHLer and then, bam, October hits and you're in Detroit wearing a Wings jersey and playing on the 3rd line every night. He's a rookie. He's got a lot of skill and I have high hopes for him long run, but like I said in the off-season, I'll be thrilled beyond measure if he scores 15 this year. That will be an outstanding success for him in his rookie year on this team. He's got to learn to be an NHLer now and it's not going to happen overnight. He'll get there though. I don't think the 3rd line will necessarily last. It's a novelty right now because everyone really wants Flip to step up and score more and they want Leino to be a rookie sensation and they're going out there and they're playing really well, but the bottom line is that they're not putting many pucks in the net. Flip isn't a finisher and Leino's a rookie. I wouldn't be shocked to see Leino paired with Dats or Z soon enough. I wouldn't be surprised to see Williams take over Flip's "role" that's loosely been ascribed to him this year as he's simply a better offensive player and one of the few guys we have right now who legitimately has a shot at putting 60-70 points up. Flip's had plenty of ice time and he's got two solid line mates and despite that he's put up 4 points so far, all in 3 games. And on top of all that, the line's got a lousy +/- rating. Flip and Leino are both -3 and Williams is a -5. I mean, look at our checking line! They're scoring just as much despite limited ice time and Maltby's leading the team with a +3 and Draper's got his +1. Now, does that mean the checking line is better offensively? No. But does it suggest that there's something to be said for the 3rd line not being near as hot as many make them out to be? Absolutely. They work hard out there and I'm not saying for a second that they've been bad, but hustle only gets you so far if other pieces are missing.

Wow, thanks for thinking and not jumping off the cliff with the lemmings. I agree completely, though I think the defense has been a bit closer to terrible than "suffering from occasional breakdowns" though I'm not worried about it long run. I think Williams and Bertuzzi have been big positives thus far because they've looked pretty good and they're undoubtedly going to keep getting better and develop better chemistry with their teammates. Leino has looked good as well considering he's a rookie, but I don't think it's fair to expect too much out of him for that reason as well. I think the reality's that's going to set in is that our middle of the lineup forwards like Cleary and Flip aren't going to suddenly start producing more just because it's needed and they have more of an opportunity. Cleary's certainly proven what he's capable of through the years and it's solid, but it was naive to expect him to add too much more to his stats. And Flip, he's just not that gifted offensively. Many are/will be surprised when he doesn't put up 60 points this year, but I certainly am not. It's not the end of the world though. If they can each add 10-15 goals, I won't be disappointed. What will really send people over the edge though is when Holmstrom gets injured again and stops adding goals in his special way. But by then Williams and Bertuzzi should be getting more consistent and Zetterberg and Datsyuk will be putting up their typical numbers again. By the time we get Franzen back and strengthen the D a bit, we'll be scoring enough to win games. Leino's capable of getting hot at any point as well and while I don't doubt that he'll be streaky for a couple years, every little bit will help. Anyways.........we'll be fine.

That article is pathetic. He sounds like a LGW's fanboy who can read. I've never been as high on Malik as some are, but this is the first time I've really been utterly turned off by something he's said. Am I in denial about the situation the Wings are in? No. I get that there are issues that need to be resolved. I get that Lebda is a liability. I get that the defense is terrible lately. But you know what else I get? It's ******* October. The reality is we DID get dealt a s*** hand in the off-season. On top of that, Zetterberg barely had a preseason and Datsyuk's had some early injury struggles. Franzen went down early and Lilja's still not back. You can't close your eyes and pretend those things don't exist. On top of that, we've got a lot more rookies and new guys in general on this team so it's going to take more than a few games to get the chemistry going again. And again, it's October. If this is still going on in February, there's merit to the panic and the attacks. But it's October. October. Again, October. And it's a more complicated and "new" October than the Wings have had in a long time. Again, you can't just close your eyes and pretend that nothing happened in the off-season because a lot happened and it's going to take a bit of time to get everything straight, but there's plenty of positives to take from the start of this season. To be completely honest, I'm thrilled they're not getting blown out at this point, and I think that's a testament to the strength of the goaltending overall especially considering Osgood's had to deal with as much or more defensive bulls*** as last year. Last year with this defense Osgood would be giving up 5-6 goals a game on low shot totals. Now he's giving up 2-3 with far higher shot totals not to mention the drastic increase in scoring chances allowed. Obviously, Lebda is a disaster on D and Ericson is a rookie. Unfortunately, we were up against the cap until Franzen went down and Lilja's simply not ready yet, and heaven knows if he ever will be. Until they get a better idea of that, it doesn't make a ton of sense to make a move. Because hey, after all, it's still October. If you're foolish enough to not recognize how much things can change over the course of a season, you're better off keeping your mouth shut. Again, I just find this whole circus between so many fans and the press ridiculous. It's pathetic. It's juvenile. It's illogical. It all amounts to hype-driven, knee-jerk reactions and rampant hysteria. It's senseless panic. It's October. This too shall pass, and George Malik and the trusty tribe of LGW's sheep will soon be eating their words again. Don't you guys ever get tired of just bulls***ting all day? By the way, I'll be the one saying, "told you so" in April.

I haven't followed the thread and am about to head out to finish the game, but I'm betting there's a lot of Lebda love going on a page or so back...

I haven't paid much attention to the Av's the last few years. If anyone has, any thoughts on if this team hasn't been better but held back by coaching? I've heard good things about Sacco in terms of getting guys going in his brief AHL stint. He never did too much as a player but maybe he's a bit of a missing piece for this team.

I can't believe the Av's have the 2nd place record in the league. I can't even believe they're leading the Western Conference right now. I don't care that we're 10 games in, that's still unreal to me. They've lost one game in regulation. They've beaten some pretty descent teams too. It's interesting looking at the games, because they're really consistent in some ways. 7 of their 10 games are decided by 1 goal and in 3 of those games, that goal was a "shootout" goal. They don't seem to give up and keep the games close. More: they either win by one goal or 3. The regulation loss was only a one goal difference. 3 overtime games that have all gone to shootouts; they're 1-2 there with their SO victory against the Wings last week. If they can stay scrappy and keep winning tight games, they very well could land themselves in the playoffs at this rate.

Wow, for once I really agree with you. At least for the most part. I think our goaltending's been fine considering how utterly pathetic the defense has been. I think we have more than enough firepower to win games if Osgood continues to play like he has (which I think has been pretty solid) and the D gets even just a bit better. I really think another relevant factor in the early struggles is simply the fact that we do have many new faces and quite a few rookies. The team will continue to gel as time goes on and the rookies will keep maturing. October doesn't mean s*** far more often than not. I really am not worried about this team yet. This is my worst case scenario: Lilja doesn't come back and we are unable to get a deal done to improve the D. At this point, I think we'll lose to Chicago whenever we would face them in the playoffs. We don't have the firepower to win the Cup with the D we have now minus Lilja. I think we could easily go to the conference finals, but we'd likely lose to Chicago who will easily outscore us with our D and less potent offense. For a "transition" year, it's hardly a bad one, and I still think Holland will strengthen the D even after we get Lilja back. If we have Lilja and another rock-solid 3rd pairing defenseman, and if we stay healthy, look for the Detroit - Pittsburgh Stanley Cup Finals Trilogy to end with a victory parade in Detroit.

To be completely honest, at this point I think the bigger issue with Legace is that he has a disruptive personality. To be frank, the guy's a headcase. His emotions have a stranglehold on his decision-making process and behavior and even as a backup, I just don't think it's worth bringing that into the room. You know he's going to be shooting to start because he has that "drive" which tends to translate to him burying his head and talking about hanging himself. Legace doesn't respect his role. He doesn't like to think of himself as a backup despite the fact that that's all he's ever proven himself capable of being. If you don't manage your expectations reasonably by being honest with yourself, you're setting yourself for a lot of disappointments and issues. Conklin worked hard and won a lot of games but kept his mouth shut and respected his role. That was why Conklin was really the perfect backup. You didn't get the sense that he was obsessed with the idea of becoming the starter. He knew he was the backup and he respected that role. He did his best to achieve in the role, but you never heard any extra chirping when the media constantly was asking questions and you didn't hear a peep from him when Osgood got the nod to start despite regular season stats. Conklin epitomizes what it means to be a professional. Legace is quite simply unprofessional. Again, we've got to give Howard more of a chance to see what he really can do. If he doesn't work out, Holland will pull something off no doubt, but don't expect it to be Legace. I think, or at least I hope to the heavens, that Holland has more sense than that.

We haven't given Howard enough of a chance yet. I've been as critical and questioning of him as anyone, but he needs more NHL games as the Wings backup before we really get an idea of whether or not he's going to be able to get it done. I don't think Osgood needs to refocus. I think he's looked pretty good so far; certainly MUCH better than last year. He's let in some crap goals, but every goalie does time and again. He's also played great despite the floundering defense quite often. Again, people can piss and moan about that Phoenix game all they want, but Osgood was the only reason we didn't lose in regulation. The rest of the team wasn't doing anything. If Osgood gets some help, he'll be top 5 in the league for just about all goalie stats by mid-season. I actually wouldn't mind giving Kindl a few games. I don't think he's going to do much better than Lebda or Meech, but I don't necessarily think he'd be much worse and perhaps it'd motivate Leech or Lebda to pick it up. At the end of the day though, I really think we just need Lilja back. I also think we'll likely need to make a trade as well at some point. If we don't get Lilja back, we MUST make a trade to strengthen the D. I'm not worried about offense down the stretch. We'll be fine there especially once Franzen is back. I think Williams will continue to improve and contribute there as well. Again, it's nearly the same as last year, the biggest concern is the D. If we don't get that straightened out, we won't get very far. Dats and Z will get going and that'll help a lot and despite what the usual suspects say, Osgood's really been pretty good this year, so it really boils down to the D.

I think this will be a good game, though I'm not sure we'll win. I won't be bothered if it turns out that way. Hell, I would love to start hating Colorado again...

Well, let's give Jimmy Howard a hand for something seeing as we haven't yet gotten to see him play much... "Question 4: Who has the best mask in the NHL today? Keith Jones: Jimmy Howard. He has a very interesting mask. He pays tribute to the Motor City with a Mustang speedometer with retired players' numbers on the dial." http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=295642

I'm not surprised, Devellano's always been fairly candid. I think what a lot of people are missing here is that he isn't necessarily insinuating that the Wings suck all of the sudden. We did have a rough hand dealt to us in the off-season and every other team is a lot better. It's a much more competitive conference now. Even the lousiest of teams are off to a strong start. Every team from 1-8 is going to be fighting to make it into the playoffs and as I said going in, I have little doubt that there will be less than 10 points between the 1st and 8th seeds out of the West. Every team is going to be happy to just make it to the playoffs. At that point, all bets are off and every teams got a descent shot. Look for Holland to make a move shortly after the new year to strengthen up the D. He won't wait for the deadline because we've got the cap space now and prices will be too high especially this year when a lot more teams will be in the thick of the playoff race. The Wings will make the playoffs, and it'll be them or Chicago coming out of the West. Don't panic so easily.

Here is a wonderful perspective check for the flippant (so-called) fans here at LGW.com... Courtesy of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995%E2%80%93...ed_Wings_season October # Date Visitor Score Home OT Record Pts 1 October 6 Detroit 2 – 3 Colorado 0–1–0 0 2 October 8 Detroit 3 – 1 Edmonton 1–1–0 2 3 October 9 Detroit 5 – 3 Vancouver 2–1–0 4 4 October 13 Edmonton 0 – 9 Detroit 3–1–0 6 5 October 15 Detroit 5 – 5 Winnipeg * 3–1–1 7 6 October 17 Calgary 3 – 3 Detroit * 3–1–2 8 7 October 19 Detroit 2 – 4 New Jersey 3–2–2 8 8 October 21 Boston 2 – 4 Detroit 4–2–2 10 9 October 24 Ottawa 2 – 1 Detroit 4–3–2 10 10 October 27 Detroit 3 – 0 Calgary 5–3–2 12 11 October 30 Detroit 2 – 3 Winnipeg 5–4–2 12 November # Date Visitor Score Home OT Record Pts 12 November 1 Detroit 1 – 2 Buffalo 5–5–2 12 5-5-2, 12 points, a .500 record in November. By the end... 82 April 14 Detroit 5 – 1 Dallas 62–13–7 131