gcom007

:thumbup:

I was one of the few last year who defended Osgood the whole way through. I don't go with hype. I go with what I see. I don't really see Howard taking off. He could. I'm not wholly close-minded about it because this is the first real shot he's getting. But from what I've seen, I'm not incredibly confident and I also know a bit more about him off the ice than most which doesn't give me a tremendous amount of confidence either. I don't really have anything against him, I just don't really have a lot of faith in him either. But again, we'll see.

I'm absolutely not sold on Howard, but I'll give him a bit of the regular season before I go off the deep end in my personal opinion. He's got a lot to prove though. To be honest, I wouldn't be shocked if we had a different backup by seasons end.

Do we get the NHL Network now with Comcast digital service? I seem to remember hearing something about that but I haven't heard any more news on the matter.

I'm not going to lie, I'm really, really jealous of Philly this year. That's going to be one fun team to watch if they don't hold back. And I'm totally not joking about wanting Emery to be a Wing. I want him to retire a Wing! I also want him to set a record for most fighting majors by a goalie in the process.

I kinda want Emery to fix his locker-room f***up habits and eventually replace Osgood in a few years. He can kill other players and fight. I'm cool with that. Plus, he can stop the puck. He gets his head straight and makes sure he only makes enemies of other teams and he would be one entertaining ******* goalie. I'm all about that. No lie. How can you not love this guy?! Look at that smile! He's having a riot out there! Old time hockey!

Good. No more threads calling out Holland to sign him. Overrated.

I'd say Holmstrom's been a lot more visible in October the last couple of years. It's everything after that where he's been invisible. But it'll never happen; no way he would be traded. I don't think there's going to be an issue here. Hudler will play in the KHL this year. Heaven knows how long drama will go on and it's a given that the media is going to report the same stuff every other day and hype it to the heavens, but it'll work out. I'm not worried, concerned, dehydrated, depressed, anxious, etc..... It'll work out.

Thanks for noting this. People suggest that Osgood sucked because he didn't do much when he left, but they're painfully unaware of how bad the teams he went to were and how much better he made them while posting comparable stats (again, playing behind far worse teams than the Wings) and carrying the Islanders to the playoffs. I believe the Islanders were a last place team the year before Osgood came. The guy's been incredibly underrated and under-appreciated his entire career. It's tough to argue that Hasek wasn't a better goalie in 2002 than Osgood as Hasek was really the best goalie of the era. But I think it's also quite reasonable to suggest that Osgood would've just as easily backstopped the 2002 team to the Cup. They didn't need Hasek to win that year. He played great, but I have little doubt that Osgood would've gotten the job done. I say this because the point ultimately is that Osgood wasn't shipped out because he sucked. He was shipped out because Hasek wanted to go to Detroit and we had an opportunity to land him for a reasonably small price (Kozlov, I'm still bitter about losing him though...). Osgood was moved because he was too good to ride the bench behind the greatest goalie of the era. It was an unfortunate circumstance for Osgood really. And I'm not going to lie, I still wish it had never happened. Sure, we won with Hasek technically twice, I do believe he brought more than a bit of bad karma our way. I don't like that we gave up Kozlov, a guy who always showed up for the playoffs. I don't like what happened in the years after Hasek left with his retiring and unretiring and what it did to the locker room. While it's all just meaningless conjecture that lives in the past, I'm not convinced that we wouldn't have won another Cup or two had they just kept Osgood and Kozlov around. Osgood has always been good enough to win. He's never been a liability and Kozlov was a great Red Wing and a guy who showed up when it mattered most. Plus skip all the drama in the following years and the whole Manny Legace-era bulls*** and I think you had a strong potential for another couple Cups with that team.

So there are still incredibly ignorant people around here. Sad to know.

Not '95 either. He backed up Vernon that year like '97. Vernon went to San Jose after '97 and Osgood was handed the starter spot and won in '98. '98, '08, '09 he lead the Wings to the Finals. One could even say he carried the Wings to the Finals this last year. We were pretty beat up but Osgood was the best goalie in the playoffs and Conn Smythe-bound if we had've pulled it out.

Tough to call him the best still but he's right up there which still says a lot. Let's see how the next few years go. I still think he's got 3-4 seasons of hockey in him before he starts dropping off. Another Cup or two and solid runs each year would do much to further his argument. I think he'll likely have a strong regular season this year. He really wants to prove himself after last year and while he'll never say it, you can bet with the way this guy is, he wants a Conn Smythe trophy. Expect great things once again come the next post-season.

Who's a big Cleary fan? I'm a big Cleary fan. I was thrilled to see him get the invite and I think he's a guy who could really contribute especially as his confidence increases and he takes more chances/gets more opportunities. The guy has always had the skill set and has come around for Detroit after a rough start to his career, but he certainly still has plenty of potential to surprise people.

I don't know if I said "win" or not, but I didn't really mean it in retrospect. I don't think Edmonton or Dallas would beat whatever East team represented, but I think there'll be 8 Western teams with a shot. I don't think anyone would've said Edmonton would go to the finals in 2006 either. What'll make the 7-8 seeds better is likely deadline deals and if they find a groove and play a San Jose team that runs away with the conference solely because of their division, maybe they get on a role while two other top teams beat the s*** out of each other. I still say the West is wide open.

Chicago, Calgary, San Jose, Detroit, St. Louis, Vancouver, Anaheim, Edmonton/Dallas Anaheim's not going to be as hard off as people are writing them off to be so long as Hiller stays solid. Mock me on St. Louis now but get back to me in March. Chicago's potential goaltending issue is a reasonable concern but isn't as bad as it's hyped out to be especially considering their scoring power Edmonton/Dallas will most likely find a swagger heading in And here's the thing you're not considering when I say this: Matchups are going to mean more than anything this year. I spoke of this at length elsewhere, but the thing is, you're likely to see a 4-5 matchup featuring 2 teams that may in fact be superior to the 1st and 2nd place seeds. I think San Jose will run away with 1st due to their division but they may utterly pale in comparison to anyone in the central. Calgary won't have to be "amazingly super great" to win their division. I think the Central's up for grabs between Chicago and Detroit but it doesn't matter. Bottom line is that matchups are going to be more important than ever and it's for that reason that I think every team going in in the West is going to have a shot. Like I said, laugh about St. Louis now, but when they have a great season this year and head into the playoffs, maybe they pull a 7-8 seed due to being in a tougher division and play San Jose. I think they'll have a real good chance of beating San Jose. They do that and they kill a 1 seed and meanwhile, a 4-5 seed team that may be better than the 1-2 teams goes out. You see what I'm getting at? The West is going to be wild this year and down the stretch and into the playoffs, there's going to be a lot more factors involved in predicting who will go the distance. P.S. Even with Huet I as well as plenty of others in the commentary world think Chicago is a better team this year than last. Last year they put up 104 points and we put up 112. While it very well could be a tossup, there's a very, very real possibility that Chicago will take the Central for the 3rd seed (I do think Central will be 3rd no matter what) and at that point, we'll probably end up 4th or 5th. Either way, even if we win, it's going to be a tougher fight than we had in the first couple rounds last year while Chicago will get someone like Anaheim most likely. On and on......I'm not saying we're done for, but again, I'm just saying, there's going to be a lot of variables to any teams post-season success that we haven't seen in awhile if ever.

I'm just glad that on some level he's able to retire a Wing. I hope to hear him in the broadcast booth and wish him luck going forward. His comeback was inspiring and I'll remember him as much or more for what he did in his own life to get back to win a Cup with us in 2008 as I will for the 97 goal and Turtle.

I think Chicago and St. Louis are going to be better teams because they're more confident and proved a lot last year. St. Louis especially with Kariya back will be far tougher than people are giving them credit for. Their 2nd half last year was solid minus Kariya who might be good for 70-80 points. They've got two guys who can win games for them in goal as well and nothing to lose this year. And as much as I'm excited about the Wings this year, I think it's foolish to think that we haven't taken a fairly sizable step backwards as it stands now. A lot can change as the season goes on if guys step up and prove themselves, but as of now, there's too many question marks to think that we're going to roll right into first and teams like Chicago and Calgary won't put up a good fight. In my mind, the West has the potential to ice 8 teams for the playoffs that all have just as good of a shot as the others to win the Cup. And I'm all for the competition. It's going to be a great year.

I'm really surprised people are writing off the Blues so quickly. I think they're going to surprise a lot of people this year especially with Kariya back full time. They had the best second half last year without Kariya scoring at over a point per game pace before being injured. Watch out for them. The thing about the Blues and the Hawks is that they're going to come into this season more experienced and more confident and expect to win more. They both proved a lot in their own ways last year and it's going to help them this year. I'm not near as high on the Canucks as The Hockey News. They'll be a top 8 team but I don't think they'll be a 2 or 3 team. I like Calgary's chances in the division better and think they'll be the 2nd seed. I'm not surprised that they have Chicago at 3 and I wouldn't be surprised if it came to be. We'll see...I don't see Columbus making it just because I think Detroit, Chicago and St. Louis pounding on them all season in the division is going to take a lot of points away from them.

The San Jose Sharks could suck this year (for them...they won't suck, but they don't have to be as good as last year) in a lot of ways and I think they'll skate to an easy first place just because of their division. The most divisional pressure they'll get is from the Ducks and it'll pale in comparison to what's going to happen in the Central.

I'll drink to that in about 30 minutes at the bar!

You know, I think it's about even for both because I think they both have all the tools to make it, though statistically I'd say it might be easier for the Pens. That's not to say the Pens are a better team so much as I don't think they're going to have to overcome as many teams capable of going the distance in the East but we'll see. I still think that if Washington can pull off a couple of moves they have what it takes to beat the Pens. They lost in overtime of game 7 last year in the 2nd round to the Pens who eventually won the Cup. They would've beaten Carolina and gone to the Finals and probably lost to us. But anyways, I think the Caps are a better team than people give them credit for. People around here want to write off the Blackhawks because they didn't put up much of a fight against us but go on to say the same about the Washington Capitals who took the eventual Stanley Cup champion to overtime in game 7 before the series was decided. Sure, they lost some guys, but so did the Pens. I don't think we can say that any team at this point is a lock for the finals or even the conference finals, but as I said before in an original thread, I would not be shocked to see a Blackhawks vs. Caps Stanley Cup Final. (I'm about to get long-winded because I'm really fascinated and super-excited for the Western Conference battle this season more than any before it!!!) As for the West and the Wings, the reason I say the Pens have a better chance is that I think there are going to be 8 teams in the West that go into the playoffs strong. I think the point difference between 1st and 8th place in the West will be 10 or less. 90-100 points, 95-105? Who knows, but I don't think 1 or 2 teams will run away with the West like the Wings and Sharks last year. Detroit, Chicago, Calgary, San Jose and St. Louis will most likely be top 5. San Jose still will benefit from a weaker division and thus I think they'll probably take 1st in the conference but with a more competitive conference in general, they won't put up as many points as last year. Calgary will be in somewhat of a similar boat and take the 2nd seed. But in the Central you've got Detroit, Chicago and St. Louis who will see a lot of each other and those games will be battles. Plus you've got Columbus and Nashville who aren't elite teams but Columbus was a playoff team with 92 points last year and Nashville had 88 points, 3 points out of tying Anaheim in points for the 8th seed. So really, there's 3 elite teams and two teams that are plenty capable of winning games. Columbus and Nashville may end up having better overall teams than the 7 and 8 seeded teams at the end of the season but they probably will be edged out because of how strong the Central is. Detroit, Chicago and St. Louis will probably be 5, 4, 3 in some order and look worse points wise than they are simply because the Central's going to be tough. That's where it'll be rough...I think 1st and 2nd seeds are a lock to San Jose and Calgary so whoever takes 1st in our division is going to have a huge advantage over whoever hits 4 and 5, and again, I think 3, 4 and 5 go to Wings, Blues and Hawks in some order. If Anaheim keeps their goaltending going they'll be a not too distant and potentially 6th elite team. Then you've got the Canucks, Blue Jackets, Oilers, Stars, Wild, Predators and even the Kings maybe who all have a shot at having descent years. Canucks and Oilers should round out the top 8 but who knows. There are just a lot of great teams in the West. Five teams will be really great and they'll beat the hell out of each other, 2-3 other teams won't be far behind them though and will win their fair share of games and then you've got 4-5 other teams that probably won't make the playoffs but they'll give you a run for your money and definitely take some games from the big teams. So basically, the West is going to be a battle and the 8 teams that go into the playoffs won't be far apart. If Detroit ends up with a 4th seed which is entirely possible, it'll be a tough series even if they win which will make it a bit more likely for them to struggle later on. Even if they get 3rd, there's a good chance that could be Anaheim which won't be easy if Hiller doesn't lose a step. So really, the big struggle in the West isn't going to be about who the best team is. As I've said, it's a fairly evenly matched conference in many ways but I think there's a very strong potential for the best teams to still not win. Hell, maybe this will be San Jose's year solely because they hold on to that 1st seed and get the easiest 1st round matchup while the other elite teams beat the crap out of each other. Maybe St. Louis will surprisingly smoke the Hawks and Wings this year as they're going to be more confident, more steady from the start, solid goaltending from the starter and backup (Conks) and plus they'll have Kariya back for the full year barring another injury. Basically, I'm super pumped. I could go on and on but it's time to head to the bar. It's going to be a GREAT year in the West. Just about every regular season game that's not against Phoenix or the Avs will be a big one. Lots of questions, but that'll just make it all the more exciting. It can't start soon enough!!!!!!!!

You sure of that? I'm not so sure you're sure and I'm not so sure you're sure of all the injuries and how long they may have been bugging Datsyuk. The guy doesn't talk much about it and paints a much rosier picture of things more often than not when he does. You could argue about Datsyuk's health issues being of concern when it matters and I think it's something worth discussing at this point, but I don't think Flip really fits into that debate nor does he fit into comparisons of Datsyuks playoff performances. And we always win a lot of regular season games. Like I said though, who on the Wings wasn't getting shut down??? No one was scoring. We hit hot goalies and got beat by teams that went on to play for the Stanley Cup. In 2002, Dats was part of a long run as a rookie; he put up 3 goals and 3 assists. Not so bad for a rookie on the most loaded team we've ever had. In that sense, I think it's fair to compare Flip and Dats rookie playoff seasons. They're rookies, long runs, minimal minutes and roles, descent numbers for rookies. But years 2 and 3, all bets are off. Again, it's just not fair to hold an injured Datsyuk up against Flip in an argument. So why is it fair to compare Flip and Dats first 3 regular seasons? Because there's no room for doubting what the numbers say. Datsyuk played less games due to injury but still progressed far faster than Flip proportionally to each players individual season point totals and on top of that, Datsyuk was building off a rookie season where he put up about as many points as the average of Flips 2nd and 3rd season. The writings on the wall there because even talking about variables like injury, Flip played over 20 games more than Dats in his first 3 years and still didn't come close to matching Datsyuks point production and progression season to season. That's different than a healthy Flip (playing on a Cup winning team that went to game 6 and a team that went to game 7 of the finals) outperforming an injured Datsyuk on teams that got booted (and humiliated in 2003...) in the first and second round.

First of all, what bar? That'll help me guess.

Actually, many have suggested it in the last year or so and it's picked up quite a bit this summer here and there. Some people like Drake and I might've scared some of these people calling him the next Datsyuk off a bit, but believe me, ultra-hyped expectations have been suggested numerous times and loosely implied more than that.

I can understand why one would think that, but I still think it's missing some key points. And furthermore, I don't think he'll see a major increase in power play time at all. Hell, depending on how some of these new people end up doing, he could see a decrease as time goes on. People have posted broken down stats of what Flip's done with his power play time and it's not much especially when compared to the guys that get time ahead of him. With as much as Babcock seems to like Flip, do you really think he would hold him back from the power play as much as he has if not for a reason? That reason being that Flip just isn't exactly an offensive wonder-child and is most certainly not much of a goal scorer. Riding off that, I don't think we'll see a dramatic increase in his goal scoring. Even in the playoffs when everyone wanted to hype up his performance because of his point total, people tend to forget that he only netted 3 goals in that time. Again, he's just not a goal scorer for so many reasons. He doesn't create plays out of thin air like a goal scorer and subsequently doesn't do a great job of finishing them nor the plays that fall right in front of him. He doesn't have a great shot. He doesn't have great hands. Again, someone brought up the shootout thing...it's telling of their faith in his hands...galactic mistake?! I think not. And while I won't say that Flips playoff point total means nothing, I'm not willing to say it means "something" either. At the end of the day for me, it's not a matter of numbers. I do believe the numbers more often than not reflect a pretty accurate picture but they never tell the whole story. The crux of the matter for me simply comes down to the skill set. Flip has an average skill set. I'm not hating, but he simply doesn't have it. As many have said numerous times, you can dig up scouting reports on the guy and they're not going to read much differently than the summarizing statement of "he has an average skill set." Like I said, with guys like Z, Dats and Franzen, it was very obvious to me that these guys had something special even when they weren't putting up the numbers to support it yet. It was evident early on. Flip has never given me the same impression and I've learned to trust my ability to judge guys. I know the game pretty well and more often than not, so long as I don't get caught up in positive or negative hype, my instincts tend to yield pretty accurate assessments. And lastly, while I'm pretty optimistic and excited about this team this year, I don't think we're going to be as strong as the last few years, especially offensively. Our older guys have just gotten older and will likely be less effective. We're going to have a few rookies who could easily not contribute much offense this year as you know, that happens and is acceptable in one's rookie year. Our replacements for our more potent goal scorers are all gambles. They could do well, they could do bad. That'll be really interesting to watch. Again, I'm excited about the season, but there's a lot of question marks and there's no debate over the fact that we're not going to be as strong offensively. So considering the majority of Flips points come from assists, I am not convinced that he'll be able to match let alone exceed last years production even with more minutes considering he's not going to have as strong of a supporting cast around him. And listen, here's the reality as ugly as it is for even me to admit: if Jason Williams comes in and plays as well as he's capable of playing, Flip's going to be hard-pressed to hold onto his second line centering spot. In 2006, Williams put up 58 points for us, 2 years ago in 43 games he put up 36 points for the Blackhawks and last year with the Thrashers and Blackhawks he put up 47 points. The guy's a loose cannon and inconsistent, and unlike how I feel about Flip, I really don't like Williams much, but if the guy comes in and plays his ass off, he's likely to get Flips 2nd line spot at center. It pains me to write this paragraph but again, it is what it is. If Williams had half a brain and the heart of Draper, he'd be a 60+ point guy easy because he's got the skills. Flip's got good heart and a pretty good head on his shoulders, but he just doesn't have the skill set. I think he'll be lucky to hit 50 points for one or two seasons and I wouldn't be shocked if he doesn't even do that. In any event, this is going to be a great year. There's a lot more to watch for this year than ever before. Lots of unknowns and lots of guys who will be playing for their futures. It'll be good and hopefully bring out the best in everyone.