gcom007

I'll say this: I think Leino's going to be a great player but I'm not near as expectant as some are for him to have a big first year. I think he'll have a typical rookie campaign and I'll be THRILLED if he nets 12-15 goals and hits 30 points. I'll be exuberantly happy. That said, I also think he's more likely to hit 50 points this year than Flip. Connect the dots.

You probably should. I just brought it up because someone mentioned Franzen's "out of the blue" offensive explosion and I was trying to iterate the fact that I'm consistent and usually pretty accurate. And again, not because I'm a genius, I just don't ride hype trains and trust what I see and know of a guy. I'm not fickle and I don't throw a guy under the bus the second he slips up a bit. That's the real moral of the story with me.

Like I said again and again and again when I got harassed for saying Osgood would be absolutely fine for the playoffs this last year, quote me on it in June. edit: and unlike with Osgood where it would be to our benefit if I was right, I would love to be proven wrong on this matter. I wish nothing but the best for Flip and the Wings and would love for guys to be the best they can be, so I'd love to be wrong. But like I said, quote me on it in June. Unfortunately, I'll probably be right again on this one.

I didn't say Flip has a poor work ethic. I didn't mention it in regards to Flip at all. I only said Franzen had all the tools the whole time. It wasn't like Franzen needed to really manifest anything out of thin air to be a complete player, he just had to get his head straight.

Irrelevant considering Datsyuk was battling some pretty serious injuries in most of those years, not to mention the fact that the Wings in general were pretty lousy and wholly lacking in offense for the three 0 goal years after the 2002 Cup. How many goals did the entire team score in the 2003 playoff run (if you can even call it that)? 4 or 5? It was disgraceful and we were utterly stifled offensively. And Datsyuk's injuries in those years were more significant than reported. In 2006, Datsyuk was struggling to walk throughout the playoffs. I don't remember what was said in the papers, but it's something I know to be certain first hand. Flip's 3 playoff years so far were long campaigns where he was healthy and on teams that were infinitely superior to the 2003, 2004 and 2006 Wings. Just look how many years it took Flip to get to 63 games...3 years. For Datsyuk to get to 60 games? 5 years. Those numbers are quite telling as well of how strong the team was for the various campaigns. So, I mean, if you really think it's still a fair comparison, so be it, but I hope you see the issue with trying to show a correlation.

All I've got to say is it's going to be funny a year from now when everyone's s***ting on Flip and saying he's lazy and he sucks because he has another 30-40 point season. I'm 100% with Drake on this one. And way too many of y'all are too into "black and white" thinking. Like Drake said, I can appreciate a player for what he is without having to overhype him to the heavens. That's what annoys me because like I said, as soon as the guy doesn't live up to expectations every other thread is "so and so sucks and is lazy and Holland needs to dump him blah blah blah." It gets real old real quick. And you can say I'm consistent in my leveling of Flip, but, I won't have to change my tune in a year. Something tells me many of you will. And Franzen. I'd like to point out once again that I called Franzen's breakout quite a few months in advance of it. See, the difference between Franzen and Flip is that Franzen has the hands, the skill, the finish and the work ethic to be a big time scoring threat. He's had this since day one. Franzen got a s*** deal because he got ran behind a play a few years back and it screwed with his head. It happens, but all he needed was some distance from the event and an opportunity. I said late in 2007 or maybe very early 2008 to look for Franzen to blow up when he gets his shot. I figured it'd be in the playoffs though when he'd start to shine but he got his opportunity bumped up by Holmstrom's injury. And what happened? He became quite possibly our most potent goal scorer. But again, he always had it in him because he always had the skill set, the sixth sense and the work ethic. And it was cool, because once again, I was consistent and accurate with my analysis of the situation. Look it up. Search. Many of you rip on me for my analysis but the funny thing is, I'm rarely wrong in the end. I'm not trying to be arrogant, it just is what it is. Search it. Go ahead and rip at me all you want and make ignorant statements suggesting I hate Flip, but don't be surprised if in a year you come to realize I was right all along. And make no mistake, I'm no genius, I just call it how it is and I skip the hype too many of you get off on.

Nick will sign a 1-2 year deal before 2009 is up most likely. I think Holmstrom will retire after this year. While Draper won't go anywhere if there's no way to get rid of the cap hit, if they are able to get any relief by buying him out (I don't know the rules for it), I think they will do so and he will retire and Maltby will retire with him. If Draper fulfills the contract though, I think Maltby will sign on for 1 more year for whatever the league minimum is for a guy his age in order to finish with Draper. Realistically, Maltby's got a lot more left in his tank than Draper who in my mind has become almost completely useless. Maltby's not the guy he was in the 90's but he's more effective to have around than people give him credit for. If the Wings have offensive holes still as the season goes on or if they just want to make a splash while dropping some cap space, look for Flip to be moved at the deadline for a bigger-named offensive rental. While this certainly won't happen if he is on pace for 60 points like some suggest, I think it's more likely that he'll float right around the 35-40 point pace at best and he may even drop points as he likely won't be racking up as many assists because we're most likely not going to be scoring as many goals this year as last. He's not a goal-scorer and he's certainly no Datsyuk, so again, if he only maintains the 35-40 pace or shows a decline in production, look for the Wings to move him. He'd give the most cap relief as well as bring the best return of any of our guys that have any potential of being moved which is why I think it could happen. The $3 million cap hit was a good-faith gesture hoping he would continue to improve, but I don't think we're going to see that. Once the off-season hits, the fate of Eaves, Bertuzzi and Williams will depend on how this season goes. If Williams and Bertuzzi play well and will play for similar money, I could definitely see the Wings signing Bertuzzi up for another year and Williams for 2-3. If I had to guess though, I think Bert's most likely to sign another deal with us as he'll probably keep it cheap and it seems like he'd enjoy retiring as a Wing. It'd be a good end for him and I've got a feeling he'll win a lot of people over this year. It won't be the Bert of old, but for $1.5 million, he'll look like a bargain. He'll probably put up 10 or more points than Flip including scoring probably twice as many goals, again, at $1.5 million. And again, this is why I think Flip's days as a Wing may be numbered despite what many think or fantasize about. Eaves is a wild-card. I'm actually most excited to watch him as I think he has a lot of potential to surprise people. He's got the skills and he's still just 25. Leino's 25 and this is going to be his rookie year. I think the Wings will do all they can to get Eaves thinking of this as another shot at a rookie year and another shot to prove himself now with more experience and a great supporting cast of players, coaches and management. If he flourishes, I'm sure the Wings will try to sign him to a deal of decent length and hopefully he'd sign for "Red Wing" money as he seems like a hockey-first guy from a hockey-first family. But maybe he wants a payday... For all the other UFA's, I've got a funny feeling that we might see Paul Kariya become a Wing. He's making $6 million now but likely won't be getting that kind of money next go around as he's getting older and last season was a wash because of injury and the likelihood of the cap crunching contracts down a bit. Plus, he'd likely only sign here if he's looking to buy into the Wings dollar system. If the price was right, it'd be a good signing as the guy can still really put up points. Before the injury he was over a point per game pace, I think 15 points in 10 or 11 games. He just seems like a guy the Wings would go for. I've always thought that he'd sign with the Wings at some point in his career, but we'll see. St. Louis is a real up and coming organization and they'll only be better if Kariya stays healthy. Other than that, who knows. I think Kariya would be the only bigger name we'd be likely to get or go after. We love our veterans... Major turbo out there long-shot: Hossa dealt to Wings in off-season to clear cap space. We could afford the $5.2 million hit after this year. Something crazy is going to go down in Chicago next summer and I don't see either Toews or Kane being the odd guy out. Not sure if Hossa has a no trade clause, but if he does, it gives him the power to say, "Detroit," and I have little doubt that the Wings wouldn't still be interested in his services. Hey, I didn't call it a major turbo out there long-shot for nothing...

Flip has absolutely nothing on Datsyuk. Datsyuk is so far ahead of Flip in every regard in terms of skill and pure hockey sense that it's absurd that people continue to mention them in the same sentence. I'm not always a numbers guy, but these numbers are pretty telling... Pavel Datsyuk first 3 seasons: 2001/02 - 70 GP - 11g - 24a - 35 points 2002/03 - 64 GP - 12g - 39a - 51 points 2003/04 - 75 GP - 30g - 38a - 68 points Valtteri Filppula's first 3 seasons: 2006/07 - 73 GP - 10g - 7a - 17 points 2007/08 - 78 GP - 19g - 17a - 36 points 2008/09 - 80 GP - 12g - 28a - 40 points As we all know, Datsyuk took it up a level and remained there in year 4, but even so, in his rookie campaign playing in only 70 games he put up 35 points which is proportionally a hair behind Flip's 3rd year point total of 40. His goals have been incredibly streaky at best because at the end of the day he just doesn't have great hands and he doesn't know how to finish plays like the Datsyuks, Zetterberg's, Hossa's and Franzen's. He put up a lot of assists last year because we had an abundance of goal scorers. We had 4 star/superstar goal scorers who put up 30+ goals including Hossa at 40, and both Hossa and Franzen missed around 10 games give or take a few I believe. Simply put, there's just no comparison between he and Datsyuk. While Flips point totals aren't outstanding anyways, they looked better than they probably should have last year primarily because we were just a goal-scoring force to be reckoned with. No one had our firepower and we smoked the rest of the league in goals scored. Now, I'm not saying Flip sucks. I like Flip. He's a fine player in many regards. But his skill set is average at best. People get hyped up over a few random plays that he's done that are absolutely beautiful plays, but let's not forget, Darren McCarty scored one of the most beautiful and memorable goals in Red Wings history and that guy is certainly not considered an offensive star let alone a superstar like Datsyuk. People need to learn real quick to accept Flip for what he is: an average NHL player. He'll never be a first line guy and I highly doubt he'll hit more than 50 points in his career. I expect him to maintain an average of 35-40 points which is really fine for his role. But all this talk about him becoming a force like Datsyuk is just wishful thinking. He simply doesn't have the skill or the fire. He never has and you don't just manifest that out of nowhere. You have it or you don't. He doesn't. Flashes of brilliance once in a blue moon prove absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things. P.S. If Flip puts up similar numbers to what he's done the last couple of years, I would not be shocked to see him dealt at the deadline. While he's certainly not a ripoff at $3 million a year scoring 40 points, in the cap world and in Wings system in particular, he will be considered overpaid. If they don't see him showing significant progress and we have any sort of holes to fill on offense, I would not be shocked if they cut their losses to bring in a guy to make a run for the Cup with and to free up cap space for free agency. It's not that anyone would like it, but in the cap world, he is the most likely guy to be moved if we need to do something significant because he'll bring the best return and the most cap relief. I'm not saying it's a lock to happen, but don't be shocked if it does.

He could. We'll see how the back and wrist do though. He's got the skill to put up 40-50 goals every year if he plays 75-80 games without pain. But it'll be interesting to see how he holds up as he gets older. Hopefully the injuries won't be an issue, but it's definitely a question mark for me still. I don't doubt that he'll be an invaluable player though even if he's just putting up 25 goals. He's an Yzerman in the post-knee injury/Scotty Bowman era type of player. He contributes everywhere. While we need goals to win games, we don't need our superstars to put up 40+ to be successful and our superstars don't have to put up 40+ to be superstars. It's a good situation any way it shakes down.

I'm not sure, but I think we'll know by November. If I had to guess, I'd say 1 or 2 years at about $5 million a year. It's probably just wishful thinking though.

I was concerned before. I didn't think we were screwed, but I was concerned. I am no longer concerned. No worries at all. We'll be as good as any team this year if not better than many. If some of our guys hit upsides, we'll be right with Chicago to come out of the West and likely will edge them out again as Huet won't beat Osgood if the rest of the skaters can balance out fairly evenly. I'm really excited to get going. It'll be a real fun season with a much more exciting regular season than we've had in recent years. The games will mean more and we've got a lot of new guys that will be trying to prove themselves. Leino and Eaves are the one's I'm excited to watch. Both are 25 and have a lot of potential. I think Leino will have a solid season but not the 20-30 goal campaign some are expecting. It's his rookie year. Eaves on the other hand I think has a good chance to come in and really make a mark for himself and get his career going. No better place to do it than Detroit. I'm pumped. Can't wait for October...

While I know half of you are having fun, those of you that are seriously worked up about this have no idea how some of these people live. I've seen stuff go down in real time with my own two eyes that makes Hudler's situation seem like nothing if it's even true at all. A lot of these guys party hard and there are very few people in the world that actually tell them "no" to anything they want. Plus they have all the money in the world to blow on whatever it is they want. You don't have to like it, but you might as well get over it because it is what it is. If anyone else around here runs in any of the crowds these guys party in, they'll back me up. You'd be shocked at how little effort these guys take to hide what's going on. Again, I'm not saying it's right or you have to like it, but before we start vilifying Hudler based on a random report from oversea's, consider the door you're going to open up for yourself to become emotionally gutted by countless stories of extreme partying by some of your favorite Red Wings. Simple way to avoid it is keep the personal s*** seperate from the game. You don't know them, don't concern yourself with their personal life. If you slipped up, you wouldn't want everyone and their mother reading and speculating about it, would you? Just ignore this s***. Let it slide. Their personal lives are none of your concerns and the less you know, the happier you'll be.

I'm not sure if Hudler will ever fully live up to his potential as he does have the size thing working against him and he hasn't exactly been the most consistent player. I think he needs more confidence and his mental game in general needs to improve. He seems like an emotional guy and he's frozen up at times when trade rumors were in the air or if he wasn't getting a ton of ice time. He's done a lot proportional to his opportunity's, but he needs to get his head straight and just get out there and prove he can be an offensive force night in and night out. He needs to forget about ice time and forget about what people are saying and just play his game. He's got the skills to be a star. As someone said, if he had the body, he'd be a superstar. But, he still is more than capable of being a star if he gets his head straight. When he comes back to the Wings, he needs to buckle down and just do his thing. If he has his mental game solid, he'll get the minutes he wants and it'll likely be on the first or second line, which has been much like a 1a/1b thing on the Wings for awhile. I really think that's the only thing holding him back and the thing that likely bugs Babcock the most about him at this point.

I agree with you on this, but Flip's still overrated.

Yeah, I'm sorry, but Flip has nothing on Hudler. Not...a...thing. He's incredibly overrated and has done little with his opportunities because at the end of the day he just isn't that great at anything. He's an average, middle of the road type of hockey player. Not bad, but he doesn't have the skills to be a star and he most certainly doesn't have the offensive potential of Hudler or anything even close to it. I'd love for him to prove me wrong this year, but I'm expecting him to prove me right. Meanwhile, Hudler really does have great offensive skill and has done far more with less of an opportunity than Flip. If I could only sign one of the two, I'd sign Hudler in a heartbeat. I don't think you'll need ten years to figure it out either. I don't think Flip will do much more than he already has and Hudler will return and continue to improve. At the end of the day, Hudler's raw skill and talent trump Flip's average skill set and inability to finish plays. Flip: bloated expectations. Hudler: true star potential.

One thing you've got to say, the guy's good for an interview. Maybe it's just because people have painted such a negative picture of him even before the Moore incident, but he seems to really carry himself really well through these interviews. He exudes confidence and he's assertive and it doesn't sound like he's having to dig for answers. He just seems like a straight shooter. But again, in terms of the signing, I'm fine with it. I think you're going to be hard pressed to find a better deal at this point for $1.5 million. He could really surprise some people this year. I think a lot more people in Detroit will like the guy by the time the season's over.

They should just bench Holmstrom until the playoffs and then put him back on the first line. As ridiculous as it sounds, it really wouldn't bother me and it'd probably be for the best!

Or you just don't know as much about hockey as people paid millions to manage/coach professionally. Hmm...

This kind of stuff just doesn't make sense to me. People said the same about Hossa this year and that didn't make any sense either. Realistically, our reasons for losing both years had little to do with Bertuzzi or Hossa. It had far more to do with injuries in key places and some flaky calls. In '07 against the Ducks, I think we win that series and the Cup if Schneider hadn't gone down. And I'm saying that even given the fact that I think Hasek was slowing down and had a terrible game 6 which clinched it for the Ducks. We also didn't have Kronwall for any of that post-season. And this last year, for crying out loud, we had countless injuries to key guys and still made it to game 7 and lost by a goal!!! I'd say proportionally that's a bigger team accomplishment than our 2008 Cup victory. We had so many reasons to not go as far as we did this year but we still lost game 7 by 1 goal. That's pretty amazing when you consider the injuries. The reality is, all of our teams lately have been great teams that have the components to win. In 2008 we had luck on our side and minimal injuries. We weren't so lucky in 2007 and especially 2009. But to pin it on guys like Bertuzzi and Hossa by making statements like, "we already tried this and it didn't work" is ridiculous. If we don't have the injuries and we win the Cup both years, suddenly Bertuzzi's the missing piece and Hossa's a hero as opposed to a scapegoat. Silliness.

I think Holmstrom can be a first line guy for the Wings with Dats and Z from time to time, but I don't think there's a chance in hell that he'll be able to contribute down the stretch if he doesn't get a lot of rest. I would give him as much rest as possible down the stretch whether he aggravates injuries or not. We need him to be ready for the playoffs and if he plays through the season with no rest, I have little doubt that his contribution will continue to decline this year as it has the last few years in the playoffs. From the "lines" thread, I wrote the following: "I think/hope that Holmstrom's going to be given a lot of nights off if only to keep the guy as rested and healthy as possible so he can be most effective when we need him in the playoffs. The guy cannot take the abuse of a full regular season and be effective in the playoffs at this point. His body just can't do it. I really, really, really hope he's given a lot of rest along the way and given the signings, I wouldn't be shocked if that's the direction they're leaning. Maltby and Draper will rotate out depending on how things go when Holmstrom's playing and Holmstrom gets lots of rest. I honestly think Draper's as likely if not more likely to spend a lot of time in the press box as Maltby. If you ask me, he's been our worst player for awhile now. It's sad to say because the guy's got heart like very few have, but he just doesn't have the inherent hockey sense of some of the other guys. Age has hurt his game quite a bit the last couple years."

It wouldn't shock me to see this on more than a few nights. While I'm excited about Leino's career, I am not near as expectant as some are here for him to have an outstanding rookie campaign. If he comes out strong and plays as well as he did in his time up with us last year, this obviously won't happen. But if he doesn't, which is quite likely if you ask me, he'll spend some time in the press box. It's not because he sucks or because I'm pessimistic. It's just how it goes at times. He's a rookie. Any rookie that doesn't come out like a superstar for the Wings is likely to spend some time in the press box. And of all teams, the Wings do tend to place a premium on veteran talent.

I'll still be surprised if he doesn't miss 15-20 games, but again, I'm not complaining. Maybe it's not ideal, but it could be a lot worse.

I think/hope that Holmstrom's going to be given a lot of nights off if only to keep the guy as rested and healthy as possible so he can be most effective when we need him in the playoffs. The guy cannot take the abuse of a full regular season and be effective in the playoffs at this point. His body just can't do it. I really, really, really hope he's given a lot of rest along the way and given the signings, I wouldn't be shocked if that's the direction they're leaning. Maltby and Draper will rotate out depending on how things go when Holmstrom's playing and Holmstrom gets lots of rest. I honestly think Draper's as likely if not more likely to spend a lot of time in the press box as Maltby. If you ask me, he's been our worst player for awhile now. It's sad to say because the guy's got heart like very few have, but he just doesn't have the inherent hockey sense of some of the other guys. Age has hurt his game quite a bit the last couple years.

Like I've said, a gamble but no worse than a lot of other gambles out there and that's all that's left at this point. We've done the best we could with the cards we were dealt this off-season. I think it'll go quite a bit better this year than some think. We added 3 guys that are capable of putting up points on the cheap. If they can turn it up and make it happen on some level, we're going to be a favorite this year again without a doubt. And again, this is one year. Next off-season we'll be in better shape. Again, I really like the Eaves signing and I think there could be a lot of upside there. I don't really like the Williams signing but I don't hate it as much as most either; it's not a make it or break it signing for me. I'm not thrilled but I'm mostly positive about the Bertuzzi signing. We've still got a great group of guys that have done this for a bit and some real promising young kids coming up. And on top of that, we've got arguably the best playoff goalie in the game right now. We're in good shape. This is going to be a great season.

Well, as I've said numerous times, what do we Wings fans call McCarty's merciless beat-down on Lemieux?