gcom007

No one's making excuses for what he did. I don't think anyone's condoning the cheap shots at all. I don't think anyone's said that the cheap shots are acceptable at all. But you're flat out crazy if you think Bertuzzi's aim was to end his career let alone cause any serious injury. That's about where the defending Bertuzzi. It was a cheap shot, plain and simple. Like you said, they happen in hockey. The difference in Bertuzzi's case is that a worst case scenario situation occured. Had he not gotten jumped by Moore's teammates sending a plethora of weight into Moore's body, Moore likely would've sustained minimal injuries and the story dies fast and most likely call it even between the clubs. But Bertuzzi did get jumped after and Moore subsequently sustained far more impact in a far more vulnerable position than he would've had the situation not escalated the way it did. There are countless cheap shots that happen every season that could easily end far worse than they do if a guy falls funny or hits a board funny or a pileup happens on top of a downed player. What about Kronwall's hit on Havlat in Game 3 of the WCF? What if someone fell on Havlat in a funny way and he sustained worse injuries? What if he hit the boards funny before anyone else even arrived on the and suffered more serious neck/back injuries? You know what happens? Kronwall becomes public enemy number 1 and everyone and their mother in the league and the media wants his head. That's just how it goes. Doesn't matter at that point if it was a clean hit or not because all anyone sees is a guy who's suffered very serious injuries. All logic and reason is suspended. Bertuzzi's situation was obviously much more of a blatant cheap shot. Again, no one's arguing that. But again, plenty of cheapshots happen every night that have the potential to be incredibly dangerous and thankfully most aren't. Bertuzzi and Moore weren't so lucky. I'm sorry if I can see that and give a little grace to the guy as opposed to burning him at the stake like most have. Again, what if while McCarty was beating the life out of Lemieux in '97 a Colorado player jumped McCarty and they landed on a vulnerable Lemieux yielding a similar situation to the Moore incident? Are you going to throw McCarty under the bus? Somehow I doubt it.

This is incredibly logical considering we're negotiating with him and apparently have offered him a contract. Thank you for this brilliant contribution.

If Chelios doesn't end up signing with anyone and the season starts up, will he be more likely to keep waiting for a team to give a call or will he give Ken Holland the call that Holland alluded to earlier in the summer? Or maybe give Holland the call and take on a coaching/development/management role but still hold on to the idea of playing. Has anyone read anything on this? I'm not so convinced he's going to find a spot despite what positives he could bring to a team. We'll see but I think the fact that it hasn't happened yet and he's the one who's apparently been reaching out to teams to no avail says something. It's not like there's going to be a money issue on the table as everyone knows he's going to be as cheap as possible and for that matter, everyone knows exactly what they're getting from him. You'd think if a team was interested at all that he'd be signed at this point. But who knows...

I agree. I don't want to utterly condone Bertuzzi's actions at all, but it's very hard for me to say that Moore didn't bring it upon himself with his prior actions which some might say were worse than Bertuzzi's at the core. I think Bertuzzi certainly wanted to send a message after Moore refused to face him face to face, but I don't believe for a second he intended to injure the guy in any severe way. There's some skewed logic in the air if we're going to praise McCarty's pounding of Lemieux way back when and get all uppity about Bertuzzi's punch on Moore. If not for the resulting pileup, Moore likely would've skated off less damaged than Lemieux did way back when. In a sport like hockey, hell, in life in general, you can't expect to not have to answer for running around and taking cheap shots on people. Again, it's a shame that it happened but when it shakes down, one could say in some ways that both Bertuzzi and Moore were victims of a freak accident. Both guys became paralyzed in their own ways and watched their careers slip away. Bertuzzi had a hell of a lot more to lose than a guy like Moore though. Meanwhile, Naslund was the victim of a blatant cheap shot. Moore is the guy who most blatantly was "intending to injure" in his hit on Naslund, and it's still the biggest cheap shot in my mind. I'm not going to lie, if Bertuzzi signs and wins a Cup with us this year, I'm calling it vindication. I've felt all along that he's gotten a bum deal and I'd love to see him retire on top.

I've said it before as have plenty of others, that play was just flaky. Was it a blatant cheapshot? Yeah. Did Steve Moore ask for it though in some ways? Yeah. Did Bertuzzi go out to try and paralyze the guy? No way in hell. What Bertuzzi intentionally did was hardly pretty and quite suspension worthy, but the degree of Moore's injury was undoubtedly maximized by the pile up after which wasn't really Bertuzzi's doing. It was a freak thing that is incredibly unfortunate but it doesn't change the fact that it's been overblown for a long time now by many with plenty of help from the media. After all, the media loves celebrity villains. It's an easy sell to lazy thinkers. While I do feel bad for Moore, he was just as much if not more of a cheap shot artist than Bertuzzi. If it were the old days, none of this would've happened. The issue isn't about Bertuzzi vs. Moore or vilifying anyone. The biggest issue at play here is that too many guys don't have any respect for other guys on the ice. Moore and Bertuzzi's issues attracted the spotlight because it was a worst case scenario, but crap happens every night that could end the same way depending on the circumstances. So again, the bigger issue here really boils down to respect.

This is just another signing that's a gamble. They're all a gamble at this point though so it's nothing to get worked up about. They're trying to make the best of what's left and this is hardly a bad signing all things considered. If it does indeed go through, I won't be upset at all and generally I like the idea enough as I'm sure the price will be right. All things considered, the Wings have done a good job with the situations they had to work with.

Anyone see this? I saw it on my Blackberry app and it's online as well here: From http://www.forecaster.ca/hockeynews/hockey/player-pn.cgi?943 "2009/08/15: Unrestricted free agent winger Todd Bertuzzi, who finished the 2006-07 campaign with the Detroit Red Wings, may be returning to the club for 2009-10. There are reports the 34-year-old Bertuzzi, who played with the Calgary Flames last year, will sign with Detroit soon."

Not sure if this has been posted, but it's the first reasonable thing I've read in the media on this whole matter and an outstanding observation on media issues in general these days. from http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/2749...all-angles.html "It really is amazing in this day and age how quickly celebrities are vilified. Reports surfaced Sunday that young Blackhawks star Patrick Kane and his cousin had been arrested and charged with felony robbery and misdemeanor counts of theft and criminal mischief for allegedly beating and robbing a cab driver after an altercation over 20 cents. Fans on THN.com were largely outraged, calling Kane immature, a hockey punk and a jerk, and accused the 20-year-old Hawk of being drunk (as if that would be an anomaly for a 20-year-old). Media outlets widely quoted the cabbie, Jan Radecki, in effect validating his accusations and fueling the anti-Kane fire. A Buffalo TV news crew interviewed Radecki, telling only his side of the story, noting the Kane cousins both pled not guilty to the charges against them, but failing to do their due diligence on Radecki. That was Sunday. By Monday, the Chicago Sun-Times was asking if Kane was “a player an emerging organization wants to build its long-term future around,†deriding the Calder Trophy winner’s game and suggesting the Hawks would be better off cutting ties with the franchise cornerstone. And Internet outlets were offering Kane’s mug shot up to the public and broadcasting his new nickname, ‘20 Cent.’ (Full disclosure: ‘20 Cent’ is pretty good.) But then things started to turn in Kane’s favor. Radecki’s lawyer went on record saying the charges against Kane had been overblown and that “we should be able to work things out,†whatever that means. Many are now assuming the sound ka-ching is ringing in Mr. Radecki’s ears now that he knows who he’s dealing with. And by Tuesday, things had come full circle. Kane’s lawyer let it be known he knows what happened after talking with witnesses and that “Patrick Kane never assaulted the cab driver.†Meanwhile, reports essentially besmirching the cabbie’s reputation were released, giving Kane’s version of the events – or rather his lawyer’s – more credence. In just 36 hours, Kane went from being the latest poster boy for pampered, immature, self-centered pro athletes to a guy who may just have been in the wrong place at the wrong time. And Radecki went from innocent victim to possibly a guy looking for a payday. Kane might be guilty of the charges laid against him. Or he may not. He might be a spoiled prima donna who thinks he can get away with whatever he wants because of who he is and what he does. Or he may not. Kane may also be the victim of someone looking to take advantage of him – or he may not. What this case should teach everyone is that in this age of 24-hour news services, sketchy journalism and the never-ending race to break stories, things can be and are routinely overblown for the sake of ratings and Internet traffic. Everyone should also be aware that stories can reverse direction in a matter of hours, so don’t get too excited by any one report. Kane deserves a break, as does Radecki. Kane deserves his day in court, and not the court of public opinion. Radecki deserves a modicum of privacy concerning his past – although he did open himself to criticism by doing that TV interview and his lawyer’s assertion that something can be ‘worked out’ doesn’t help. But please, people, remember that Kane and Radecki are people, too. Just like you and me. And I’m sure we’d all hope everyone wouldn’t jump to conclusions at the first reports of something being amiss in our lives. I know I would. John Grigg is a copy editor and writer with The Hockey News and a regular contributor to THN.com with his blog appearing regularly during the summer and the Wednesday Top 10."

I'm not knocking or saying one is really better than the other in general. I'm simply pointing out the difference in their styles and how age ultimately limits one more than the other. Losing reflex response time is going to hurt someone like Hasek who's game is far more acrobatic than Osgood's. Osgood will lose a bit of reflex like Hasek and everyone else as he heads into his 40's, but it won't hurt his game as much as it hurt Hasek's. Hasek was a great goalie for a long time with a unique style and he deserves all the praise he gets, but his last few years were rough to watch in some ways as his body just wasn't able to keep up with what his style required of him to play at an elite level. While the 2006/07 campaign was mostly successful for him, it was obvious to me that he had lost a step and I knew it was only a matter of time before his head started getting in the way to try to compensate which is what ultimately unraveled in 2007/08 when Osgood eventually took over the starter spot. As he said, he probably was physically capable of playing better than he did much of that year and in the playoffs, but what I think ultimately was going on was more mental than physical at that point. If it was just the slight physical loss of reaction speed, that'd be one thing, but that triggers mental issues and ultimately just a breakdown in what has so long been an incredibly intrinsic, habitual process. All things considered, it's tough to rip on the guy when he played as well as he did at what, 43? But he didn't have quite enough to get it done. Osgood on the other hand is simply not as acrobatic. I know, redundant, I'm just saying, he's a guy who's game is more mental than physical in terms of balance. He reads the plays and keeps things fundamental and positional so he's not dashing side to side too much or diving for anything. People have made ignorant comments about how Osgood has it easy because people just shoot it at his chest but what they typically ignore is that Osgood tends to put himself in a position where all they have to shoot at is his chest. With that type of game, when Osgood hits 40 and starts losing reaction time, it's not going to change the fact that he more often than not won't have to whip a pad or glove out or dive across the crease because typically he just follows the play and makes sure that the only target to shoot at is his chest. So I don't foresee a decline in his play real soon and barring something drastic, I expect him to have two more great playoffs and I expect him to sign up and most likely start for 2-3 more years after his current contract expires. Especially given the fact that it's looking more likely than not that Howard isn't going to pan out to be a starter. He'll either stay backing up for a couple years or they'll bring someone else in after next season for $1 million or less. McCollum likely won't enter the fold for a couple years I would imagine. I haven't followed his progress real closely but I'd imagine the earliest we'd see him on the big club is a couple years as we like our guys to develop in the minors. Right now I'm betting on a 2-year contract extension for Osgood after this contract and a 1a/1b thing with McCollum for those 2 years with Osgood starting in the playoffs. 3rd year for Osgood will depend on how things go for him and if McCollum is ready to take over. If he is, Osgood will probably hang them up as opposed to opting for a 3rd year when it'd be really pushing the age thing and there's a kid ready to step in. I'd think he'd be the 1b guy at most and backup in the playoffs. Long story short though, I think we're set in goal for at least 4 more years.

For some reason I've always thought that one day we'd eventually employ Paul Kariya. I'm not sure why, but it just seems like something that would happen later on in his career. If the price is right and it likely would be for a number of reasons next year, I could see the Wings signing him for a couple of years. I don't expect any of the younger, bigger names to come here. We've got our core guys. We'll just be looking to accent the lineup. I'm not sure about D yet. Lids will re-sign this fall most likely and then we'll see how the season progresses if we need to shake things up. If the D gets their act together, most of our available money will go into guys who put the puck in the net. That's where we're hurting the most right now. If Howard plays well that solves one issue. I've got a feeling that Osgood will sign an extension though once this contract is done. I don't think his game will be too slowed down by age as that nano-second of reflex response time that Hasek needs to flop into position isn't necessary for Osgood who has always been more of a fundamentals/positional goalie. If he can stay elite even if only for the playoffs, there's no point in dumping him at that price. So either way, don't look for more than another million to go to a goalie because it'll likely just be a backup+ as opposed to a 1b/potential-starter.

Forte, Birmingham, June 2002, Stanley Cup, Champagne, Luc Robitaille's wife, greatest night of my life. And I've got pictures too. I win.

You're not alone. My mind was similarly blown a couple pages back. It's truly disheartening to think of the profound lack of rational thought in this thread.

Hey y'all, I know you love to jump all over the Chicago hate-fest whenever possible, but as this happened in America and many of us here are Americans, let's not forget about the value/right/law that is among our most important: innocent until proven guilty. Even when it appears the writing is on the wall, oftentimes things can end up looking quite different as new facts emerge. So it might be wise to relax a bit for awhile and wait and see how it plays out before stamping "criminal" on his forehead. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think he was charged with a MIP. Considering they slapped I believe three other charges on him, one would think they would not hesitate to slap him with the MIP as well if he was under the influence of alcohol. And if he wasn't under the influence of alcohol, I definitely think we're going to hear some new facts coming out in the next couple of days because again, this just seems too strange to be true as is. Whether newly emerging facts will prove him to be any more or less guilty remains to be seen, but as it stands now, I believe that there has to be more to this. Significantly more.

I don't even know what to say. I have a strange feeling the story will evolve in the next couple of days. Something isn't adding up here.

A year ago, hell, less than 6 months ago, people would've unanimously said he was worth $8 million anywhere and that he wasn't overrated. You would also see countless comments suggesting the Wings need to sign him when his contracts up and send Osgood to the old folks home. Oh how the bandwagon rolls... I never have been as high on Luongo as many. When Osgood's done and Luongo's done, I'd be surprised if Osgood doesn't prove to have had the more successful career. And he gets paid less than 20% of what Luongo considers a hometown discount so the team can stay competitive. We are spoiled beyond measure to have a goalie like Osgood at the price. His willingness to play for such little money when he could likely easily get more is a HUGE bonus for this Wings team and a key to our success as it allows us to ice stronger skaters. Osgood knows how to get it done on and off the ice. He knows how to win pure and simple. He's a class act and a fan-first guy who loves this team and this city. At Osgood's worst moments last season I never would've taken Luongo over him even if they made the same salary. His play in the playoffs once again explains why I have that kind of faith in him and I hope that once and for all fans will remember what this guy can do and give him the respect and support he deserves. There might not be a guy on the Red Wings roster at this point that bleeds love for this team like Chris Osgood. It's just sad that people in Detroit probably won't fully realize that this guy is a Red Wing like Steve Yzerman was a Red Wing until after he's retired.

Once getting past the inital "ewww Jason," I totally agree with you. While I like Samuellson more as a Red Wing, he's gone and Williams at $1.5 million is a fine replacement. I just hope he has learned to not ***** to the press.

True story. I'm one of the many people who didn't like the signing but it's hardly as bad as even I've made it out to be. My distaste with him has as much to do with some iffy on-ice problems as it does off-ice mouth-running. I think he'll be fine at the price and provide 40-50 points. Who knows, maybe more. I'm willing to be open minded about the guy maturing and pushing himself to become a better, more complete player. Here's hoping, eh?

I went wild and voted Eaves. It's probably wishful thinking but I'd love to see him come in and surprise a lot of people and I think he's got the potential if he gets his head straight. There's no better team to prove yourself with then the Wings and he'll get the chance. Williams could be good. Who knows? I'm going to be positive despite the fact that I am not the biggest fan of the signing. All of the guys mentioned sans Leino have potential to put up between 40-50 points next year and we'll need them to. Leino has the skills but as I've said again and again, I'm not going to expect too much from him in his rookie year. I'm excited about his career, I'm not going to sweat the first season if he doesn't put up star numbers. I think Flip and Cleary will disappoint many here. I think they'll probably do 40 points each give or take 5 points but especially for Flip, that'll disappoint many. It's what I expect so I won't be disappointed.

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I said it today for the first time and I stand by it. We would've repeated as Champs this year with ease with all of our other injuries if just Lilja was back. He wasn't the only difference but he would've made that big of a difference too. He is way under-0appreciated at this point in his career; he was a huge part of our success in '07 and '08. He got a real bad deal off one play in '07 but he was great for us in the playoffs that year and continued it in '08 when we won. I really hope he gets healthy soon.

Absolutely. I don't want to say I'm totally worried about what it'll be like when he's gone, but, well, it's going to be real interesting, that's for sure. For our entire stretch as an elite team we've had the premier defensemen of our generation and one of the greatest players/defensemen of all time and he's managed to play at an elite level still to this point. Losing Yzerman, Federov and Shanahan was one thing for us when we had guys like Dats and Zetterberg stepping in and then Franzen as well. They carry the torch well enough. But we do not have anyone on D right now that is even close to Nick Lidstrom level. When you really stop to think about it, it's no surprise that Holland jokes (I hope at least) about retiring when Lidstrom retires...

We also appear to have fans who are utterly and completely unable to pick up on blatant sarcasm...

As long as Osgood is healthy for the playoffs I'm not worried. I have no idea if we'll finish 1st or 8th in the West and I believe it very well could be either or anything in-between. I think we'll make the playoffs and so long as Osgood's healthy, we'll be fine in goal. Age won't hurt his game as his style is not acrobatic. He's a positional guy so that nano-second of extra reflex speed that a guy like Hasek needs to stay on top of his game won't affect Osgood in the same way. I think he could easily play as long as Hasek did and likely go out on a better note for this reason. If indeed this holds true and Osgood's still got good game left in his system in 2 years and Howard doesn't pan out, look for Osgood to re-sign for 2-3 years and McCollum to transition into the potential-starter role or 1a/1b role. I don't think we're as strong as the '07/'08 team though for reasons besides losing Hudler and Sammy. You also have to consider a guy like Holmstrom who seems to be struggling more and more to contribute down the stretch due to wear and tear on his body. And while Draper was easily our worst player in our Cup campaign in '08 anyways, he isn't getting any younger or better. Also, if Lilja doesn't get over his concussion syndromes, that's a major hit to our D as so many overlook how important he was to our 2008 Cup run. And of course you can then throw in the loss of Sammy, Hudler and even Drake to some extent and it's fair to say that the '08 team as it stands today on paper was a significantly stronger team than our 2009/10 team will be. But... Eaves could surprise a lot of people and nullify the loss of a Sammy/Hudler. Williams, sure, I know, I don't like him either, but...well, you never know. He's shown potential at times. If he can add half of Sammy's points it'll help and I think he'll do that. Lilja could be fine by mid-season and help anchor our defense again in the playoffs. I've never said it before, but I'll say it now and I believe it: if we had a healthy Lilja this year, we would've beat Pittsburgh. I'm not expecting our kids to do too much. It's not that I don't like them or think they don't have potential at all. The bottom line is that they're rookies and I don't think it's fair to expect too much from them in their rookie year. I'll be THRILLED if Leino puts up 15 goals. I'm not going to get absurd and expect 25-30 from him and then throw him under the bus when he fails to do so if he has typical rookie dry patches and limited ice time. These kids will be great Wings for a long time but they're not going to reach their full potential overnight in their rookie year. They won't hurt us much though either so that's a plus. Maybe they give Holmstrom more rest through the season and he has a stronger final playoff campaign to top off an outstanding career. And who knows what Holland will swing in a trade that will strengthen our team at the core. Like I keep saying, just because we aren't necessarily looking like the obvious powerhouse of the conference doesn't mean we don't have a great shot to make a long run. It's going to be one of the most exciting seasons to watch. The regular season is going to mean more this year than it ever has. I'm pumped up.

True. What also annoys me though is that I often times and called a pessimist and a "doom and gloomer" for saying that I don't think the Wings are going to be a lock for the finals like they were the last couple years. So many here have opinions that run all over the place because there's little to no logical basis to support them. It's all about hype and extremes. We're either screwed or the best, we win the Cup in sweeping, glorious fashion or utterly and completely fail. In reality, all such analysis is pretty off-based and subjective.

Lidstrom: no way unless some freak-injury occurs. Draper: if he doesn't have the best season, will they work out a buyout deal? I don't know how those work but his cap hit won't go off if he retires, but again, not sure if there's another angle to it. Maltby: I could see him signing up for one more year cheap if Draper stays. He's still a good guy to have around at the price especially if he's fine with a reduced role. If Draper goes he's done though. Holmstrom: most likely, there's only so much more his body can take, I wouldn't be shocked if he retired during the season even if injuries persist. It'll be a sad day when he does retire though no matter when it occurs. Great guy and great Red Wing.

At this point, I don't necessarily think we'll win the Cup this year but I wouldn't go so far as to call it a rebuilding year at all. It's definitely not the ideal team they'd like to be icing every night, but it's still a very strong team and we'll be competitive and compete. There are 8 teams that will make the playoffs in the West and I think you'll see the most evenly matched 8 teams we've seen maybe ever. It's going to be a really exciting season of HOCKEY in general to watch. If we win it this year it'll feel great because it'll be a hell of a battle to get there. The soonest this team MAYBE will have an actual rebuilding year is the year after Lidstrom retires. MAYBE!