gcom007

It's Eklund. That means it's not real. Besides being full of it, he probably has very real psychological issues. Any post (especially from me...) referencing Eklund should be observed for humors sake only.

Well, Eklund expects an announcement that Hossa has signed a 12-year deal tomorrow. So maybe he is leaving... I'm hoping Eklund's "brilliant" forecast turns out true though.

I absolutely don't think he's an elite player. I just think he offers more upside than Flip. Like I said, I'm fine with losing either to keep Hossa who is a true elite player. I'd keeps Huds over Flip though to be honest. Flip's a better all around player but we can afford to have some scoring specialists like Huds. But again, whatever it takes to keep Hossa if you ask me. I think Flip's gone if Hossa stays and if Huds has a dream of staying, he signs a 2-year deal on the cheap to prove himself until we get more cap flexibility.

And make no mistake, I'll be one of the happiest people around when and if it's announced that they've reached an agreement. I think we'd be foolish to not do everything in our power to keep this guy a Wing for life. He's nothing short of great and he'll be HUGE for us in the playoffs next go around. I have 0 doubt in my mind.

Yeah, I saw that and found it odd. I will say though that I'm hardly thrilled about the idea of Howard as a backup. And to think he was supposed to potentially be a starter or starter 1b by now from what people were saying early on. Now in 2009, it's up in the air whether anyone thinks he can even handle a backup role. I think it's foolish to skip on Conklin if he's willing to play for similar money to what he made, but he could likely get a good deal more elsewhere and I can't say I blame him. He's not the highest paid guy in the league by a longshot...

Maybe so, but none the less, that article is an update that's about an hour old based on direct quotes from Holland today.

http://blog.mlive.com/snapshots/2009/06/tw..._stories_f.html Holland said in an interview today that the rumor is false, they're waiting on the cap still and the Wings are still Hossa's first choice. They're waiting on the cap and then are going to try to find a number both parties can live with and sign him up.

Call up Adam Banks from the Mighty Ducks of District 5 and call it a day.

I mean, maybe it wouldn't be. Anytime you've got a guy with as much skill as Heatley, there's potential for it to be a descent move. But.......................... That's about where my argument ends. In reality, I tend to fall where you're at on the matter. I'm just saying, if in some shocking move we land him, he puts in 50-60 goals (very possible on this team), has a huge playoffs and we win the Cup next year, are you really going to be saying that it was Hollands stupidest move? Again, I hear everything you're saying and mostly agree, but some guys are worth being open-minded about. He's just a skater, not a goalie. A whack-job goalie is a lot scarier than a whack-job skater as the goalie is one guy who's at the center of the team in many ways.

92 Mighty Ducks easy.

Could. I'm sorry. I don't usually do that...but...that was rough. It's not that much harder to type two more letters and then I don't read your post thinking about cows chewing on their regurgitated breakfast...

Good stuff. I hear what you're saying. It's tough these days. It's a very different league than it was in the 80's. Next year will be a telling year for the Pens. Do they become complacent and wind up like many Cup winners missing the playoffs or exiting early? Do they dig in and find the hunger to play 82 games and make another run? As you said, they've got the talent and depth to stay strong, but the mental battles aren't influenced so much by talent. Perhaps next year it's going to be Ovie's turn no matter what the Wings or Pens or whomever have to say about it. We'll see. At least you guys seem to have found a coach with a good head on his shoulders. That will help if the guys continue to pay attention. But generally, I'm definitely curious to see how the Penguins do next year in light of all this. They're the strongest team in the long-run besides Detroit to win a Cup in recent memory but the heat will be on. As many here will admit, this year, the Wings were in many ways lucky to get as far as they did. Sure, we were injured, but it's all part of the story.

I'm not saying I think it'll happen, but this is the kind of shocking deal that I half-expect Holland to pull off at this point. I mean, think about last year. Before Saturday morning (I think it was...), the idea of us landing Hossa seemed absurd. Hell, even Holland wasn't even considering it. Hossa called them and made the deal happen! But again, I'm not betting on it. But honestly, if it happens, I'm most likely not going to be too upset. He's a force to be reckoned with and will only be better with guys like Lids, Dats and Z around to complement him. Detroit is not like other cities and teams. It's a different environment here in every way and we've got enough character in the room to keep egos or issues in check. Every guy in the league knows the score with this team. If he wasn't willing to play by our rules, he wouldn't bother putting Detroit on his list. I think character issues aren't near the worry that some of you think they are. Furthermore, the Wings win a lot. When you're winning a lot, you tend to have less issues in general. I'm just saying...

Not worth it if you ask me. I'm not saying he couldn't contribute, but for 1-year and the risks involved, even if he would play on the cheap, I'd rather have one of the new kids up in his spot paying some dues for long-run success. I'm not going to be disappointed if we go out in the WCF next year right now. I might change my opinion on that once all the deals are finalized, but I'm thinking 2009-10 is going to be a bit of a transitional, retuning year or sorts. We'll be successful and strong, but whether or not we'll have the strength to go the distance remains to be seen. But again, I'd rather have some guys get up and gain some experience and become bigger parts of the whole in 2010-11 and onward than take a 1-year gamble on a guy who struggles with making up his mind.

Like Conklin was better than Osgood in the regular season? Huds has far more skill and ability than Flip. He has star-quality skills. I'm not saying he'll get there and I don't think he'll ever be a superstar to say the least, but given the numbers and the skill sets, Huds absolutely has more potential. And as said above extensively, Flips playoff performance doesn't say as much as some would like. And the whole "better today" thing is just ridiculous. Are we going to throw Datsyuk to the curb because a healthy Flip had a better playoffs in some ways than an injured Dats who missed a lot of games? Don't be so fickle.

I'd take a chance on him over Flip as he quite obviously has more raw skill and ability than Flip, but I don't put too much stock in the "most effective" stat. I mean, it's impressive, don't get me wrong. This guy's working hard too. Didn't he spend the last off-season or two out in LA with Chelios doing the whole "Chelios Workout" thing? He's improved his skating and even defense (a smidge......) and that's not to be knocked. He certainly has potential and skills, but there are still a lot of question marks. Aside from his size, I'm more concerned with his mental strength. While he puts up great numbers in light of his ice time, he's streaky and seems easily shaken. Could he grow out of it? Certainly. But it's still a question mark. Like some have said, if he wants to stay in Detroit, he'd be wise to sign a 2-year deal on the cheap to prove himself and get a payday once we have more cap room. A big plus he has negotiating for a place on this team over Flip is that Flips deal is set. Hudler can negotiate a team-first deal that ensures that Flip will be the one packing his bags should the Wings sign Hossa as well. But like I said, I'm over losing either of these guys. I like them and all, but the cap doesn't allow us to keep everyone we like. It's a shame but it's reality.

If you don't quite have the most blatant scoring touch, you better have fire and determination. Franzen had that. It got stifled by some cheapshot nightmares hanging in his head for awhile but once more time passed and he got his shot to step up when Holmstrom went down, the hard work and determination combined with generally solid skills all came together and now he's one of the most potent goal scorers in the league. Flip doesn't have the hands nor the fire. You're dead on with your 50-55 points and general assessment. He's a solid player, but all these people thinking he's on his way to super-stardom are so far out of their minds that it's not even funny. I found the Osgood bashing funny as people were just so rampantly flippant. This propping up of Flip as a future Datsyuk/Zetterberg though is just ridiculous. It's absurd. It's honestly almost insulting to my appreciation of the true superstars that Datsyuk and Zetterberg are. On top of that, it's just not fair to Flip; he doesn't deserve that kind of expectation thrust on him. People around here think every draft pick turns to gold. It's happened and we've been luckier than most, but hell, y'all should appreciate that Flip has done what he's done and leave it at that. That's still generally a success considering how many guys fizzle out before they even get a shot. Not everyone is going to be or needs to be a superstar.

:lol: Ridiculous. I am not a Flip hater. I'm a Flip realist. He will never even come close to touching Datsyuk/Zetterberg status. You can say what you want to disagree, but I'm usually right. I've called every major turning point among Wings players right for a long while. If you search, there's plenty of evidence to support it. I rarely agree with the masses here yet time and time again, the masses are usually wrong. They're emotional. They're a mass of sheep. That's not how I think. Hype means nothing to me. I know two things better than anything else in this world: music and hockey. I don't know s*** about a lot of other stuff, but I know a lot about hockey and music. I've got a good sense for both and plenty of logic and knowledge to balance it out. That's why I rolled off everyone hating on Osgood throughout the regular season and said over and over "quote me on it in June." That's why I said last year in January (maybe even earlier...) "look for Franzen to become a major impact player heading into the playoffs." Look it up. There's plenty more too. That's why I'm saying again now, Flip is about 10 points shy of his peak. He's good for a few 50 point seasons but he's never going to do much more. He doesn't have the fire to finish plays and make plays appear out of thin air on a consistent basis like the true stars do. Now, to be fair, that's plenty fine. It's not as if he's wildly overpaid compared to what he'd get on another team. And I certainly appreciate guys like him in a lineup. They're good guys. They're solid. They're safe. But are they superstars? Are they even just plain old stars??? Absolutely not. Guys like Zetterberg, Datsyuk and Hossa are and always have been on another planet in terms of ability. Even in their early years, especially with Datsyuk (who I think is the best player of the 3), it was clear as day that these guys were going to be superstars. Aside from all the technical elements to their games which you can talk about all day, they have that exceptionally rare sixth sense for the game and a relentless fire that has pushed them to ascend to undisputed superstar status. They had it from day 1. Datsyuk had it in his rookie year when he was a lot lighter and getting pushed around a lot. You watched him and you knew he was going to be a magical player. He quite simply had outstanding technical skill. He just needed a bit more time to get used to the game in America and to bulk up a bit. He did that and he's scored 50 points (and far more...) in every season since his 2nd and all the while got the Selke's, became one of the team leaders in checks and now he's top 3 in voting for the Hart. But it was all there from day 1. It was clear that this guy was special. Flip is not special. He's profoundly average. Hell, maybe a little above average, but not much, and certainly not with any sense of consistency. He has NEVER shown the skills that Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Hossa have shown since before even entering the NHL. He's never come close to consistently having the same fire in a play to make something happen that Dats, Z and Hossa have far more often than not. In 3 years he hasn't hit 40 points and hasn't had even a remotely consistent scoring streak. Datsyuk had over 50 in his second year in 60 games. Flips claim to fame is the 2009 playoffs in which he was one of our better forwards. Meanwhile, no one bothers to consider the fact that we had how many guys from Grand Rapids playing for us? And how many of our regulars that were playing were injured? I would hope a young, healthy Flip would play better than a bunch of guys who have never played a full season in the NHL and a bunch of older average guys who were injured, not to mention our stars that were injured. Hossa was snake-bit beyond measure and only put up one less point than Flip. How many of Flips assists were secondaries where a proven superstar created magic and made a play? Hossa scored more goals in the regular season than Flip scored points and I'm pretty sure Hossa missed more games. He also is as strong as our best in our end and one of the hardest working skaters in the league. How often was he right with our D-men in our end to counter a rush despite being in deep in the offensive zone seconds before? He out hustled Dats and Z more often than not this season. Flip is as $3 million cap hit. Hossa is likely to stay for a $4 million cap hit or not much more. That's really all that needs to be said about Flip or Hudler to touch on the original topic. While they might be worth $3 million on other teams that don't have our draw and depth, on this team where a superstar like Marian Hossa might have a $4 million cap hit, Flip and Hudler are expendable at $3 million when you're trying to fit guys like Hossa in who are willing to bend way more than nearly anyone else in the league would. Anyone who would rather keep Flip or Huds if it meant losing Hossa is either hung up on emotions or lacking in understanding of the game. I like both the guys when it comes down to it, but when you're trying to compete and win championships, you've got to do what it takes to put the best team on the ice. Sacrifices have to be made. Enjoy.

Like in 2008 when we won the Cup? Oh wait, that was Hudler. It blows my mind that in the same post people are praising Flip and saying Hudler's inconsistent. Those posters would do well to look up game to game stats and see how incredibly streaky Flip has "consistently" been in his 3 years here. And Hudler's worth $3 million on almost any other team, but not Detroit. When we've got a guy like Franzen with cap hits less than $4 million and Hossa potentially set to take something comparable, it's shameful to suggest streaky, unproven guys like Hudler and Flip are worth $3 million on this team. Hell, depending on how next year goes, both players might not be worth $3 million on other teams. If Hudler can find a way to become more consistent, he has a better upside than Flip, but that's a big "if." But ultimately, when this season ended, I became content with the idea of losing Huds and trading Flip. It might be a year of regrouping where we don't do as much as we'd like, but longrun, this team needs a bit of fundamental tinkering. Nothing incredibly drastic, but there are some cap issues to get through and some style issues to consider. Changes are absolutely coming. It will be interesting to see what those changes will be come September.

Not happening.

If we sign Hossa, get back to me on that. That goes for the trade deadline too should we have significant issues. Again, I'm not saying he's not a solid player and that they don't highly value him, but in a cap system on this team, he'll be the guy to get moved if the Wings are going to do anything significant at any point in the next couple of years. There's nobody else that can clear enough space that's worth anything on the market. You can't keep everyone. Again, if a Hossa deal is announced, get back to me at the end of the summer.

If worse comes to worse, yes. I'd rather be great long run than a little more well-rounded for one year. And we could lose Flip, Hossa, Hudler and Samuellson and we've still got an elite team that will challenge for the Cup. I don't even think Flip's a bad player at all, but it's mind-blowing how emotionally invested some of you must be in him to make such ridiculous suggestions. Hell, even if we don't sign Hossa, I still think Flip's the first to go if we have any sort of an issue that needs to be addressed at the deadline. Again, dealing him makes more sense than dealing anyone else when you consider his contributions, his cap hit and the return on a trade.

Again, if you were even close to right, he never would've signed his name to a 5-year $3 million/per deal at his age. He knows his dollar-making potential better than anyone except maybe his agent, and his agent let him sign the deal. If they believed for a second he was a top tier player, they wouldn't have signed for 5 years. 2-3 tops especially at that money. They knew they were getting a great deal and they ran with it. And I wouldn't really hold up our teams performance this year to show off Flips fire. Considering we were beat up, injured, often-uninspired and fairly tired, I would hope a seemingly healthy 24-year old with 3 years of solid NHL experience would outplay old fart checkers and guys that spent the season in Grand Rapids. After all, he's also making more money than most of our guys. Hell, he made more than Zetterberg last year. A snakebit Hossa scored twice as many goals though 1 less point than Flip in his best stretch of hockey. Hossa on his game in the playoffs could put up almost as many points as Flip puts up in the entire regular season. Flip makes $3 million for four more years and after that, we'll see... Hossa might stay for $4 million for life. Proven superstar. Easily worth $7-8 million on the open market. Again, to every Hossa skeptic: You're absolutely a fool if you'd rather have Flip over Hossa if Hossa's willing to play for life for the Wings for $4 million cap hit per year. If you're really bent out of shape about possibly losing Flip to get Hossa at that kind of money, you're seriously nuts. Certifiably insane. Update: I just went outside and heard the roar of every GM in the world is laughing at you right now.

Well said. You're right on with the "5 game streak" line which really summarizes the manner in which Flip collects points. He's a fine player at $3 million. He's worth the money. He earns it. But when you've got a guy like Hossa that most teams would drop $7-8 million for who might play for $4 million.................................good luck with your next team Flip...

Too true. People forget how much Lilja stepped up last post-season and even the previous one. He wasn't just adequate, he was great. He was a huge part of our success both years and caught a real rough break against the Ducks in '07 that still cast a bit of a shadow on his contributions. But in '08, he was huge for us. That was a huge loss for us heading in this year, far more than has been noted.