gcom007

I got home just in time to see the goal. Anyone want to give me a summary on something other than the goaltending? How was defense, puck possession, turnovers, offensive pressure?

He would not lead us to a Cup with the team playing like they are this year. No way. Not a chance. This has nothing to do with Osgood or Conklin. This has everything to do with people profoundly misunderstanding the Wings problems and needs.

How many Cups has he won? How many playoff series has he won? How many times has he made the playoffs? Oh yeah, that kinda sucks, don't it?

You people need to realize there's a difference between bailing out a defense that makes a few sloppy mistakes here and there or has a bad period or 2 and bailing out a defense that does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to help. Hell, Rafalski might as well have picked up the puck and thrown it in his own net on the 3rd goal. Again, there is absolutely no way that any goalie that's ever played is going to win games like tonight and last Saturday. No way. No goalie in the league on a great night wins those games or changes them in any dramatic manner. It has nothing to do with Osgood or Conklin and everything to do with how horrendously bad the 18 other guys on the ice played. http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?A.../903070439/1128 "The defending Stanley Cup champions had a total of 14 giveaways and left the ice to booing from the home fans. "We were skating around in our jerseys thinking we could win a game without showing up," Osgood said. "That's not how the Red Wings are supposed to be. We deserved it. "After getting beat the last two Saturdays, 16-2, it's unacceptable. Of course, they're going to boo the way we performed." The rout came one week after another embarrassing loss, 8-0, to the Nashville Predators. "If we're hitting, driving the net, working hard, not giving pucks away and we lose, (the fans) accept that. I mean, we're going to lose games. But the way we played tonight is unacceptable. At home, it's embarrassing." Henrik Zetterberg called the performance "disgusting." "Humbling to say the least," said coach Mike Babcock. Defenseman Brian Rafalski, who received an award before the game as the team's top player in February, had two dreadful miscues that led to goals. The Blue Jackets also took advantage of turnovers by Zetterberg, Brett Lebda and Pavel Datsyuk.. "We left our goalie hung out to dry," Babcock said. The Wings were just awful defensively."

Not true. If this were the case the other team would be scoring 20-30 goals a night. That's about how many incredibly STUPID plays the team allows to happen via turnovers, poor coverage, failing to clear the puck, giving up breakaways, etc. etc. etc...video doesn't lie. The defense SUCKS this year. Osgood is NOT having a great season by any stretch, but it's compounded by the defense. Osgood's getting his head back on straight lately. You can tell in a lot of ways if you've followed the guy for awhile. If the D gets it together, we'll be fine in the playoffs. Then I will laugh at you.

You're not getting anyone new at this point! Why don't you try making the best of it in the meantime then, eh!? Novel idea.

Well, like I said, even the media people who love to crucify goalies, especially Osgood, aren't pissed at Osgood tonight. It's not like anyone's happy with him, but most fans that watch a full game in motion across the entire sheet of ice are way too busy steaming about the defense right now to even think about Osgood. If 5 of the goals he let in were soft, the defense still played far worse. That is what you're not getting. And call me crazy, but I'm pretty sure defense and goals against oftentimes go hand in hand. And move on from what? What's a better idea? Just hate on him? He's our goalie for the playoffs like it or not and despite what you're narrow perspective leads you to believe, all things considered, he's still our best shot at a Cup. He has more potential to be the guy realized or not. So pardon me for being so bat-crazy by not totally throwing the guy under the bus who won a Cup for us in brilliant fashion 9 months ago especially when there are other major problems with this team that need to be fixed. And Osgood's responded to plenty. Again, it might not be at the pace you like, but he has shown signs of improvement as this season's gone on. In the 2 games where he actually had teams in front of him, he did everything necessary. I think he'll be fine in his next start as well so long as the team actually shows up to play. He won't be the reason we lose in the playoffs. I can pretty much guarantee you that. Time will tell. But I'm usually right.

When was the last time a team won the Cup when they give up as many breakaways and odd man rushes as we do and turned over the puck as many times as we do in our zone right in front of the net even? Not to mention all the guys that love to park in front of our nets and go completely untouched and unnoticed by our defense. Also, let's not forget the wonderful ability to completely fail to clear the puck time after time even when given time and space. How many teams like that have won the Cup???

Not successful? He went to the Islanders, a bottom of the barrel team who placed last or close to it the year before and put up better individual numbers than he did in Detroit and carried them on his back into the playoffs. What, he didn't win a Cup so he's not successful? That's about the only way you can say it because by any other measurement, he looked great personally among the otherwise atrocious Islanders. He had a rough stretch in St. Louis where some injuries shook him up a bit and he got off his game, but he came around and many players cited him as one of the key difference makers in them finding any success at all. How many Cups has Luongo won? Has he not been very successful because he hasn't won a Cup? Hell, he's only won one damn playoff series and has made the playoffs once. Even Osgood managed to carry the Islanders into the playoffs and again, you're talking about a last place level team 00/01. But hey, we gotta get rid of Rafalski and so and so so we can sign someone like Luongo who knows how to win. Right. I know y'all think it's so fun to hate on Osgood and you think you're so smart in doing so, but all you really do is prove how ignorant you are. The more you say, the sillier you look. Osgood has not looked like even a shadow the goalie he was last year, but even if he did, or even if we had Luongo, games like this would still be happening with a defense as horrible as ours has looked in some of these games. It doesn't matter who's in net if we can't get the defense straightened out. That's the bottom line. It is absolutely concern #1 for this hockey club. I think everyone in the organization will tell you the same thing without thinking twice as well.

What a great point. Thanks for contributing to the discussion.

What was Conklin on pace for then last week? Over 20??? Hmm, yes. 4 Goals on 9 shots in a matter of moments. He probably would've been up to 7 by the end of the 1st the way it was going for him. And they were uglier goals for Conklin than anything Osgood let in tonight, hence why he was pulled. Babcock would've pulled Osgood a lot sooner if he thought it was at all Osgood's fault. Again, look back at my history in these threads for years. I'm rarely one who says "oh, can't blame the goalie." I don't hate on the goalie either though. I think there's usually a lot of things that happen before a goal is scored but only 1 guy on the ice has stats that keep track of those things and he wears the biggest pads. But none the less, I tend to just leave it as it is and say hey, I would've liked to see the goalies stop more. Who wouldn't? Tonight is literally the first game all year where I feel fairly comfortable saying that there's nothing any goalie could've done on almost every goal scored tonight sans the last couple scored on both goalies once the thing was already emotionally a trainwreck and very much over. You can barely even count those against the goalie at that point. But getting there? Sorry, again, go review those goals and tell me Luongo's even going to make a quarter of those saves on a great night. It ain't happening. Osgood's got plenty of s***ty games under his belt this year where he deserved to be ragged on. This was absolutely not one of them.

I seem to remember a stretch a few years ago where we were missing Holmstrom and had a lot of rough games and then remembering another stretch before that where the same variable was at play. I think getting him back will help as we'll start putting more pucks in the net and deflating teams like this a bit before all things go to hell. Holmstrom and Hossa out is kinda a big deal when you really think about it. Especially considering Hossa hussles more than the whole team combined most nights this year...

People keep saying this like it's true when he actually posted better individual numbers with the bottom of the barrel Islanders and carried them on his back into the playoffs after what was it, something close to a last place finish the year before? There was a good article out of St. Louis when he was with them outlining how Osgood kinda proved the "great team" thing didn't hold water with the Islanders. He had some rough moments with the Blues I believe with injuries involved as well but most their considered his stay a successful one and his teammates cited him numerous times as a major difference maker when it counted. The next thing morons say is, "St. Louis wouldn't have let him go if they were so happy with him." Come on, seriously? The Detroit Red Wings, your "home" that you love with all your closest friends and one of the best teams in the league wants you back and the GM is your vacation home neighbor and a buddy in the off-season. Seriously. Like St. Louis even had a chance at keeping him... Good choice for him and us, eh? I mean, hate all you want this year be it right or wrong, but didn't he win us a Cup last year? I bet y'all weren't hating when he shut the Pens out twice in a row to open the Finals up...it feels like years ago, but wait, it really was 9 months ago!

One game? Conklin's had his fair share of stinker games this year too if you're going to lump it all on the goalie. There have been a plethora of games this year where the D has just played downright mediocre in front of Conklin/Osgood and numerous examples where the D just played atrocious and left Conklin/Osgood out to try. This is hardly an isolated problem with the defense. What's infinitely more worrisome is that there's been very few games where the teams showed up and totally dominated like they're capable of doing. The San Jose 6-0 game comes to mind and the Sharks game a couple weeks ago as well. The Pittsburgh game where they totally shut down Malkin and Crosby and held them to something like 1 shot each I believe. They'll show up once in awhile for these big games and play huge and then just completely DISAPPEAR against bottom of the barrel teams half the time. I suppose the upside of that is that hopefully once the playoffs come around and all the games are big games, they'll turn it on. Honestly, I'm still not too worried about that...

Conklin's stats are inflated because he's got quite a few shutouts against junk teams and started in some games where the team played completely up to their potential. He's had plenty of stinker games too and a boatload of 3-4 goal games. Go look at the game log. It's not near as pretty consistently as his stats suggest. And I'm not saying Osgood's stats or game by games should thrill you this season by any stretch. But the fact that anyone thinks that going with a totally unproven guy like Conklin with inconsistent numbers is infinitely better off than going with a guy having a shaky season who won his second Cup 9 months ago is out of their minds. I'm not saying Osgood is playing well, but Conklin is absolutely not playing well enough to warrant any sort of elevated confidence in him. Neither goalie has played great this year the whole way through. But again... More so, neither goalie has gotten much help and heaven knows what team will show up to play in front of them any given night.

To support this, I'll add that last year he was all about Hasek and minimized Osgood's play in the regular season compared to what Dom could be in the playoffs. He's NOT an Osgood fan. He's not really a hater, but he's not anywhere near the "marry me Ozzzzgoood lkdfjasdf" crowd either.

It helps that voting occurs before the playoffs begin...

He was sat for 10 days? That's a dramatic take on the matter. How many games did they have in that span of time? 3? It made sense to do and the media made a bigger deal out of it than it by twisting what was said. He got 10 days between starts because it made sense at the time with only a few games being played over the span of time. Everyone was pissed here when he came back "early" because it seemed to them that no time had passed because he hardly missed any games. Again, that was the point. It wasn't near as big of a deal as it was made out to be and it was a wise move. He's looked fine since returning when he's had a team playing in front of him and I know he's not going to be rattled by tonight's game. He knows who this game is on just like both he and Conklin knew who last Saturdays game was on. He'll be fine in his next start if he has a team in front of him.

"We didn't give ourselves a chance. We left our goalie hung out to dry. Got out of sync by turning the puck over early and then never really got it going. You know when you play Columbus you've got to take care of the puck. It's not like we were surprised by anything they did. We didn't do our part. The bottom line like I said is that we hung Ozzie out to dry and in the end you don't feel very good leaving the building." "I didn't think we gave Ozzie any help whatsoever." -Mike Babcock

He's also got more losses in less games.

I didn't defend Osgood at all early in the season. I thought most of his '08 starts were rough as can be. I haven't defended everything in '09. I'm not even saying he played great tonight and the D screwed him over. I'm saying the defense was 10X worse than Osgood could've possibly been tonight and they have been again and again lately. Osgood's been slowly improving in '09 despite the atrocious defensive play. I'm not saying he's playing great, but he's been improving while the defense has been getting worse. Tonight, and last week especially, the defense was just abysmal. The defense collectively played a worse game tonight than Osgood has played this year and that's saying a lot. I've just watched all of the goals again multiple times. Again, like even the goalie-hating media has noted, you can't fault Osgood for much in this game. Go read back in my posts through this whole season. You'll see that I have no problem calling Osgood or Conklin out when they deserve it. I've done it plenty this year, and far more so for Osgood. The goalies have been getting left hung out to dry over and over lately. They're bound to fail miserably and again, when these awful plays are happening so perpetually, even the media struggles to knock the goalies. What is most ridiculous to me again is that even if one says Osgood played a bad game, how can you not say the defense played a FAR worse game?!? And why aren't you talking about that???

Yeah, they are. But when it happens 2-3 times a game, you've got a point. How many giveaways tonight did the D give up? How many stupid passes? How many breakaways? Tons. If it was 2-3, it'd boil down to "hockey plays." When it's 15-20 if not far more, it's just pathetic.

I wish we had Luongo right now. Your heads would explode when we still lose this game 8-2. Again, NO ONE, not even the damn media that loves to jump on this stuff is on Osgood's ass right now. That doesn't mean they feel sorry for him. Again, that's just how bad our D has been lately. Same thing went down last week when it was Conklin in net. When you leave your goalie hanging over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again, you're going to get blown out. BLOWN OUT!!! Just like we have. It's an 8-2 game with Luongo, Sawchuck, Brodeur.

Conklin has no experience and hasn't looked near as good in '09 as he did in the first half. Meanwhile, Osgood's improved in '09 while the D's looked worse and worse. I'm not saying that going with Osgood doesn't come with some worries or concerns, but at this point, considering Conklin's got no experience and our D is infinitely more troubled than our goalies anyways, there's really no logical reason to NOT go with a guy who won the Cup 8-9 months ago. No one in that locker room is worried about goaltending right now. They're worried about defense. Wake up.

I wish people would do some research and look back at your posts from last year. They would see quite clearly that you are hardly an Osgood slappy. You're just a reasonable person. No one's talking about the goaltending in the post-game show. They're talking about the defense. The media is talking about the defense and skipping the goaltending bashing they love to do. That goes to tell you just how bad our defense has been lately. Reviling.