gcom007

Osgood absolutely did not lose this game tonight. He's played plenty bad this year. This game is not on him. The defense and play of this team was atrocious just like last week. Like the commentators said numerous times, you could really fault Osgood on that 6th goal. The rest, what can you say? The defense was non-existent. Anyone exherting more energy hating on Osgood than on the defense is out of their minds. If anything this should tell you just how awful our D is no matter who is in net. The defense lately is far worse than Osgood's been at his worst all year. How about you start talking about that.

to Osgood. to D. This is not how you help your goalie continue in getting his confidence back. I think Osgood's wise enough to know the score on those 2 goals, but none the less, the D needs to get their act together and give him a little help.

Yeah, there's no excuse for a guy being that open right by the net.

It'd be nice if the defense had've even looked like they noticed Umberger was right next to the net by himself. That'd be cool.

Fine with me. Most I would've liked to see is a guy who could compete for a 5-6 spot on D. I don't think we need it. The team we have is more than capable of winning. And what's all this crap about Calgary being the big winners? We already won the deadline sweepstakes July 2nd when we signed Hossa.

While this game was just awul tonight in every way possible, I remember back in 1995-96 towards the end of the year, the Red Wings pounded Patrick Roy and the Avalanche 7-0 (at home I believe). Like them or not, the Avalanche had a solid team with a lot of great guys and a great goalie. But they weren't being favored heading into the playoffs and a game like that didn't help. It was just humiliating. But, it set the stage for the team to band up and really get into the whole "when the going gets tough" thing and what happened? Much to our chagrin, they beat us in the semi's and ended up winning the Stanley Cup that year. Now, I'm not trying to compare us to the Av's especially THAT year too much, but I'm just saying, the regular season doesn't mean much and we still have a great team. This game highlighted some defensive problems more than ever. They might get a little relief on Tuesday at the deadline, but nothing major. Just a little help. But after that, no more talk of who we're trading for. (Correction:) One game before the deadline. No more "trade for a goalie/defensemen!" It's only go time for this team. 20 games left. It's time to refine the game and get focused. I think Osgood's on his way to getting things going and I'm hoping tonight's the wake-up call the D has needed. I'm thinking we might look back on this game as a turning point in a couple of months. I certainly still have hope.

Yep. The only difference between Dandenault and any other guy we'd get on his level is that more people know Dandenaults name. People really need to manage their expectations this go-round.

I agree about the forward thing. No way in hell this guy would play a second as a forward on this team. And the fact that he's a vet carries as much or more weight than Erickson does, and again, the more guys competing on the D, the better at this point. The best we can do is have guys competing for the 5-6 spot. There's no way we are going to land a guy who can be a 3-4 guy. It ain't happening. It's not like anyone should really be excited about this trade as again, I think it's likely whoever fills this spot if anyone does won't even dress in the playoffs. But to be pissed is just silly because there's just no way they're really going to pull off much of anything bigger than this.

Once again, they're not going to get anyone that's really going to make this team significantly better at least individually. The biggest thing they can do is bring in another guy to compete for a spot on the D to get guys working harder. That's best case scenario this deadline with our cap situation and unwillingness to move roster players. They're not going to shake up the core of this team. I wouldn't be shocked if Dandenault or whomever we get doesn't even dress a game in the playoffs. I hope not in fact. We've got guys that can be better. But the more pressure those guys have to compete for spots, the better off we'll be.

I don't think Babcock's blamed the goalies all year. He's said Osgood needs to be better, which he does, but he's called out the D enough and Lidstroms called out the D on numerous occasions. It doesn't get the headlines like the goalie thing because the press knows all the masses eat that crap up, but they know D is a problem. I think Lids is more injured than he's letting on. He'll be Lids in the playoffs though. Rafs will be fine in the playoffs. Stuart/Kronwall - anyone's guess here. I'm surprised this one has been as rough as it's been and that it hasn't improved. Kronwall especially has been so troubling all season with the stupid plays. Lilja-6 - bringing in another guy who can compete for the spot will hopefully get this pairing steady in the playoffs. I think Lilja will turn it on again when it counts.

They don't have the ability to land a guy that will make them better on the roster come Tuesday. This is a move that just adds more pressure for guys to compete to play in the 5-6 pairing. No matter if this is true or not, don't expect anything more compelling than this to go down. The guys we have now are better set to compete than last year with Hossa. The D especially just needs a little motivation and focus.

And I read earlier when he asked to be traded that apparently Montreal doesn't mind b/c they're trying to clear salary to have a better shot at bigger moves so the 5th rounder thing doesn't surprise me. You're not going to get much for a guy who wants out who's not a big name when you know the team's trying to clear space. It's a step above the Draper dollar deal.

Honestly, if this is true, I'm surprised it was this big.

This is exactly the kind of move I expected if something were to happen and I'm fine with it if it's true. He'll put pressure on anyone playing in the 5-6 pairing, brings some good experience, and he'll probably be happy and hungry returning to a consistently great team with a legit shot at the Cup. Plus, it already will feel like home to him. I really see no downside to this if it's true. It's highly unlikely they'd pull off something much bigger than this anyways so I don't know why people would be that upset over it.

I'm writing this thread as a mere observation. I'm not trying to make judgment calls or say that either of our goalies suck or should start in the playoffs. This is an observation about Ty Conklin's career in a more longrun, historical context. I see tonight's game and his next 3 as a sort of critical junction in his career that in many ways might determine if he will continue to be viewed as a career backup or will be viewed as a viable starting goalie. And I'm NOT making predictions. I don't know and I'm going to watch and find out. Again, I'm just making an observation more about his career and this interesting point in it than anything. Here's how it breaks down in the moment... First off, I don't think this game hurts Osgood at all. The game was a complete train wreck before he stepped on the ice. He had a great game last night and he's been down this road before. He knows the game's not on him nor are most of those goals really, and given the nature of the game, the number doesn't even really matter. When you come in as relief when it's already snowballing and more often than not, you're just going to slow the accumulation down with a lot of game left and the team collectively at fault for letting the snowball develop in the first place. It's not like this was just a goalie flaking out behind a team playing solid. Everyone on the ice, Conklin and skaters, were at fault. The TEAM fell apart. But here's what will be interesting to watch... Conklin didn't get any help whatsoever, but he was at the helm when the snowball started and made some world class flubs himself while we were still in it to speed things up. He played bad. No worse than the rest of the team, but he's gotta swallow a lot of blame for this mess of a game. You've gotta wonder though, how will he handle it? It's very obvious that the team is still gunning for Osgood to get things going again and lead the way in the playoffs. They gave him the break to refocus and he came back and had the great game against LA. As said, he's not going to sweat tonight. This one was Conklin's loss. Osgood has proven that he can shake it off anyways, but Conklin's never been the go-to guy at this level. Sure, he had a rather epically bad 5 minute playoff experience, but truly, that's not really substantial in terms of managing the ups and downs over the course of a career as a starter. That long-term experience is what goes a long way in giving guys confidence. Furthermore, despite the fact that he's outplayed Osgood all year and everyone saying Osgood needs to win it back, everyone who really knows KNOWS that it's really still Conklin up against a wall. Osgood's going to have to play horrible and Conklin's going to have to play GREAT for Babcock to go with him to start the playoffs. People say the pressure's on Osgood and to be certain, it is, but I really think there's a lot more so on Conklin if you're him and you're not just playing for a chance to start in the playoffs, but in many ways for your identity as an NHL goalie. So how will he respond? Or is he already responding to the pressure? You know, it's fun to cheer for the unheralded backup in December, but March is upon us and the also unproven backup just had an utterly terrible game after the proven starter had a strong comeback game. You know you'll be watchig the Colorado game more closely now no matter what Osgood does in St. Louis. So does Conklin. And this is happening at a crucial point in the process going by Babcock's schedule of figuring out the starter in the next 8 games. And that's 8 games including last night and tonight. So there's six games left in the process and Osgood's got the next start in St. Louis and you know the team's going to be gunning for it after tonight's embarrassment. Osgood knows he's not playing for his reputation. He's got a couple Cup rings that are mighty heavy in the context of history. Conklin, on the other hand, still has everything to prove. And he's got to prove a lot in the next 3 games just to prove that he deserves a chance to try and prove himself when it really counts. So tell me that Conklin's not the guy up against the wall now. It'll be an interesting couple of weeks to watch...

No matter what, I certainly hope so. I don't think all is lost for him at all after tonight, but I think there's a bit more pressure involved in this situation in terms of immediacy. In that case he had a summer and a new environment to help clear his head. Now he's getting playing time like a starter and being considered for a legit starting role and he's gotta come up with a big start in a matter of days. All knowing that he and Osgood have 3 games each most likely to settle things in Babcock's mind. For anyone in Conklin's position, that's a lot of pressure to deal with. If he can show poise throughout this, it'll do a lot for his career no matter where he ends up.

HA! And I agree completely. Kronwall especially has been mind-blowingly bad at times. Hell, if Kronwall hadn't choked up so many pucks that lead to odd man rushes or fast, stupid plays right in front of the net, your Osgood comparison might not work anymore. But then again, you wouldn't need to say it anyways because he wouldn't be choking up the puck so much. Wait a minute? Isn't this kinda sounding circular? Like, a correlation maybe??? Hmmm, I may be on to something......

Yes.

I've read such things. That's what makes it interesting to me. I'm not going to lie, I'm not as gung-ho about starting him or signing him to an extension now like many here are. I liken the situation to Manny Legace often. I think there are lessons we can learn from that situation which are relevant in this situation, but at the same time, I think Conklin is a bit more of a wildcard in terms of what the end result might be were he to start this year or go on to be a starter for another team next year. I knew the whole time to the core of my being that Manny didn't have it in him to carry a team and he didn't. I think Conklin might have more of a shot than Manny. He just seems stronger mentally and more focused in general. I hope no matter what that he continues to play solid in the games he gets. This period is a test for him even if he doesn't end up starting come playoff time, a strong outing through the end of the regular season will certainly help his chances of getting a raise and a starting role elsewhere. But I'd love to have him back if it's possible. At the very least, he seems like a really solid and capable backup and a good character guy in the room. The one difference that's profound between he and Manny is that should Conklin start the playoffs and blow it big time, I feel like there's still a lot of positives and upside that he can take out of this season and personally, I'd still love him back with the team next year in a backup role even if he blows a starting chance. Again, he just seems like a good guy to have around.

That's fair enough. I can respect that. In my defense, I've grown really tired of a lot of the drivel that's associated with the ever-running goalie debates around here and in my opinion, I think people demonstrate their lack of understanding of the big picture when they start harping on the goalies and making outlandish claims. Sometimes I point it out in a more refined manner. Sometimes I just get annoyed by it and write the people off. I did that in this case because I just didn't feel like getting into it because it's just such a tired subject. The same stuff gets rehashed all the time around here and honestly, it's hard for me to value people's opinions when they start making these grand sweeping statements every day as if it's some landmark in original ideas. I don't understand how you can follow hockey for even a short period of time and not recognize that there are always off games that don't follow conventional rules per se and that the goalies can't be blamed for everything. It just blows my mind that people who have taken the time to find a message board for a hockey team don't understand those simple concepts. Sometimes it gets old and I snap out of constructive mode a bit. I'm truly sorry it offended you.

Yeah, umm, that's irrelevant to this thread.

Overreact much?

I don't make anything writing posts and I wasn't even ragging on him. I like the guy and honestly would like to see him successful. How about you give me a break.

5-6 spot rotation. I could see us getting a guy that doesn't start a single playoff game but just kinda hangs out and adds a bit of pressure to the mix. I expect 1-2 and 3-4 to get things together come playoff time, but hey, if Holland can score a guy that puts pressure on Kronwall especially to man-up in the defensive end to earn his 4 spot, then hey, that'd be great. I'm betting on a guy that can challenge for 6 to try and get that 3rd pairing to focus. Lilja will get it together, but they really need someone to step up and not be a 5-6 liability every other game.

We don't need a guy who can perform at a high level to pick up all the slack. Our guys are capable of playing great. We just need a guy with a bit of hunger and experience to liven things up for everyone, especially the 5-6 guys competing for spots. Chelios may be able to be that guy more come playoff time if he can resist injury, but having another veteran there to up the competition and focus would certainly help should Chelios not be able to handle it. Again, let's not forget, this is the same defense that was lights out all throughout the playoffs and they've got the benefit of another Selke-caliber forward in Hossa. They should be able to handle it. They just need a little bit of a shaking up. Plus, a stay at home guy might ease things up for Lids who I think is more hampered by injury then he lets on.