gcom007

Maybe it was just a temporary thing b/c he didn't want his neck to burn??? Let's hope. I mean, the popped collar is so 2006...

I think you're going to change your tune after this year unless you're just a sentimental slappy.

I don't think they see it either. I don't think this deal would've been done if both parties didn't agree that ultimately he's an average player worth around $3 million per season. If they believed otherwise, this would've been a short term deal for around the same as they wouldn't go further at more money and Flip wouldn't sign for so long for so little. That said, my beef is that when Hossa and Franzen are up next year and after Z, it should be all about keep them as opposed to wasting cap space on average guys. If Franzen has another big year, I think it's very possible that both he and Hossa price themselves out of Detroit. I can't see Detroit putting up Datsyuk/Zetts money for Franzen after a year of this and someone else will and he'll likely take it. And in the same breath, they'll likely lose Hossa for similar reasons if they don't play their cards right. I trust the management more often than not. I'm not a Holland-hater like many here. I've applauded nearly all of his moves through the years. I'm not big on this just as I wasn't big on the Kronwall deal and I'm still not big on the Kronwall deal even after this year. I don't really like these longer-term, mid-level gambles. Even though it's not huge money, save it to throw at a guy you're 100% sure is going to make a difference every game like Hossa.

Right on the money.

We're probably thinking about this in different ways. When I say it, I look at guys like Zetts and Dats who when watching them play even before they really became superstars, you knew that they were going to get there. They had the talent and they had a certain confidence and commitment to becoming the best. Nothing was going to stop them. I have felt that way for awhile about Franzen as well and was saying it before just about anyone. I don't see that in Flip. It's ambiguous I know, but I'm just saying. When they were at Flips point, they weren't getting deals this good when you had to know they were only going huge. I think it's fair to say that Flip most likely won't be reaching that point, so I ask why in this instance is he getting better money? I'm not saying he doesn't have heart, isn't a good kid, doesn't like winning, etc...I'm saying I don't think he has the tools (generally speaking) to become a great player and at this point, I wouldn't put someone like that in a Wings jersey for 5 years at $3 million per year.

I'm not saying it's impossible. I was playing off the "surprise" idea. I was surprised at this deal. I won't be surprised next year if we can't keep Hossa or Franzen. I think a Franzen deal will have to happen ASAP if he's going to stay because if he has another great year, then he's likely gone. I was really hoping they could get him signed 5 years at $3 million as opposed to Flip. Then Hossa at around $7 million/year. It's still all possible, but it's going to be a lot harder as said and all I'm saying is that given that it'll be harder now, I wouldn't be surprised if they were both gone.

I believe I said that I don't think he has the mental tenacity. Physical might've been in there too, but I was primarily thinking mentally. And it's hard to explain why I feel that way, but I've watched hockey for a long time and I've got a pretty good sense about guys. You can just kinda tell who's going to really step out. I by no means think Flips bad. He's not. Generally speaking, I like him as a player. But I like him at $1.5-2 million at this point. And even if he becomes a player that deserves to make $3 million (more than Cleary or Holmstrom) as a Wing, I still think it's a bad deal for the whole. Hudler comes in because I like him at $1.5-2 million far more than Flip at $3 million. Again, it's not so much that it's really that awful of a deal, but it changes the playing field for signing guys like Franzen and Hudler and it's going to box Hossa out. And I'm of the mind that you send Flip packing if it means keeping Hossa. Again, what bothers me most about this deal is how it affects the big picture of the Wings system financially. That part I don't like at all.

I really am surprised. I certainly feel like this is a reaction signing considering what others are being paid, but I'm still surprised. I don't feel like this fits in with the Wings business-model which isn't good for future negotiations. I didn't like the deal for Kronwall and he had a lot of upside. He's come into his own in this last year, but even so, who's to say he won't have another injury-ridden year next year? Even with the upside coming, it's when he plays, and that hasn't been as much. So was it such a good deal after all? I'm not so sure. Flip has less upside if you ask me and he just got the same deal. So I don't like it. If it said 5 years $2 million, I'd be cool. Fair enough. In this system, 5 years at $3 million quite simply is not so cool, so yes, it very much is surprising. Here's what won't surprise me now...bye bye Hossa and Franzen next year. That sucks. This should've been Franzen's deal and I think it'd be possible and we'd be lucky, but it'll be real tough now. Again, even if Flip becomes a player worth $3 million a year, I still think it's better to do whatever you can to keep Franzen and Hossa in the system. Those two have 10X the upside compared to Flip at a million...

I don't have any sort of emotional attachment to Hudler, at least any more so than anyone else on the team, but I think given time and potential, I'd rather have him on the team than Flip if I had to choose between the two. I just feel like Flip doesn't have the tenacity mentally or physically to become a big-time player. I think Hudler has the potential to get there and I think he'd be less money. So to me, that says Flip walks if he wants more than $2 million and give Hudler $2 million or less maybe even for 2-3 years and I think he stays and develops. Meanwhile, more money to throw at a game in, game out elite game-changer in Hossa. Let's hope Zetts is doing the Datsyuk deal and maybe Hossa buys into it as well. $6.7 million all around!

I certainly don't think this is a really bad deal, but I would hardly call it a very good deal. With guys like Holmstrom and Cleary who have proven more pulling in $2.25 million and $2.8 million respectively, I was really thinking anything over $2.5 million would be overpaying in the context of the Wings system. I would've thrown that $3 million towards the cause of keeping Hossa if it was me. I just don't see the upside of this guy like some do. Sure, maybe he's worth more on the open market but again, in the context of the Detroit Red Wings, I don't think this guy is worth a 5-year deal at $3 million yet. I would've given him 2 years at $2 million at best I think to be honest. What scares me the most is how this will affect the Franzen negotiations. I was hoping for something closer to this for Franzen. Or maybe $3-3.5 million/year for 2-3 years. I think that's going to be tougher now and again, it's going to make it all the tougher to sign up Hossa. And sure, Hossa wasn't brought up in the organization, but for the love, he's a franchise player. I really think the Wings need to do whatever they can to get him locked up long term and a deal like this for someone like Flip makes that a lot harder to do. So, unless Flip comes up big in the future, I'm really not a fan of this deal. It's not bad enough to bite us in the ass but it's hardly optimal. I'm thinking Hudler will be packaged up and sent on his way sooner than later now as well.

If he keeps it up like he was, he'll be a bonafide first line scorer with at least 50 goals. He was nearly unstoppable through the end of the season and the playoffs when he wasn't out with blood on the brain...so for the love, I hope we sign him long and cheap ASAP!!! He's been a favorite of mine for awhile and I knew this was coming. Once again, I'll chime in and say that at the trade deadline when everyone was flipping out about second line scoring I said wait for Franzen to turn it on soon. There's just too much potential there for him not to get it going. I don't think it was a fluke. I think a freak run-in with the boards a couple years ago, a bit of confidence and the right moment to break were the only things holding him back. He's clear on all 3 points now and some. He'll be a menace. I just hope we can find a way to keep him and Hossa in the fold after this year.

The paper yesterday had a little blib burried that their 2-way contracts were still on the table but they're seeing if they can't find something better around the league. So, same old, same old but that's the official word on the matter as of yesterday. I don't think Flips signing will change their offers.

Who will stay, who would have to go and how much will people be signing for if this is going to happen? I think it's quite possible that they'll find a way to make it work especially if the Cap continues to go up a bit. Here are the bigger names that ideally they'd like to keep around... (and this is uneducated wanna-be armchair GM material at its worst...) Hossa - $6.7 million to match Dats, 4-5 years? $7 million if he's the team scoring leader. I could see him buying into the system and taking less to stay in Detroit and dominate. Perhaps they could work out another 1 year deal and then give him a bit of a raise once Lidstrom retires or resigns which ideally would leave more money to play with. But I get the feeling that he'll be even more willing to sacrifice money to stay after this year. Zetterberg - $6.7 million to match Dats, 5-7 years? Remember, Dats has got the Selke's and is less injury prone as well. I don't feel Zetterberg is as consistent as Datsyuk. He does have a Conn Smythe though. That said, I think it's reasonable that Dats contract could set the bar here if Zetterberg wants to stay a Wing long-term and make it easier for the Wings to keep Hossa around. Franzen - $2.0, $2.5 and $3.0 million for 3 years if we're lucky? Given Cleary and Holmstroms deal, I think this is reasonable. But if he waits until after next season to sign and continues in his newfound scoring ways, this will be tough whether we sign Hossa or not. Filppula - $1.5, $1.75 and $2.0 million over 3 years. He really doesn't have the numbers to command more than that at this point on this team and thankfully, I don't think he'll push too hard for more. Hudler - $1.5, $1.75, $2.0 million over 3 years. I don't think this one will be difficult nor hurt much. Howard - $750k, 2 years. McCarty/Downey - $750k, 1 year. One will stay. Helm - He'll be on the roster with his $600k hit to fill it out. Goodbye to... Samuellson - if we keep Hossa, he'll be gone Chelios - Retirement. Lebda - He'll be the most expensive D-man they're likely willing to part with and considering how solid our top 4 is, I don't think he has enough upside to keep him here over someone we can pay $500k/yr. Kopecky - If we keep Hudler and Flip, I've got to imagine he'll be on the out. Conklin - Unnecessary unless we dump Howard once and for all after this year. If so then he'll stay at $750k again.

"Hopefully, the salary cap will grow and we can find a way to keep everybody (in 2009)," Holland said. "We've gotten a great player. It's a great opportunity for everybody involved, and that's always been something that we've strived for. We want deals that provide a mutual benefit for both sides." - http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID.../807030351/1053 And the topic is inevitable and blatantly ahead of itself, just like it says in the title, but so is 99% of the rest of the drivel on any DISCUSSION board. I'm super excited about Hossa and umm, would like to keep him around. But you know, we don't need to have a *******-fest on a message board over anything for 108 days before we can consider and 'discuss' the future.

I'm hardly an expert about the minor league contracts, but I've gotta assume Howard's more or less looking at a 2-way deal again and spending the year in Grand Rapids. As much as you want him to compete, you've gotta put the money in other areas when you've got a guy like Conklin around for 750k/yr. now. There's just no need to sign him against the cap at this point when he's still got another year he can spend in GR. So that'll help, no? It seems everyone's assumed that we have to throw money his way to be with the team this year but now, I'm not so sure.

Brainfart! Yes, I definitely meant underrated. My bad... ...and I forgot overall, definitely #1. No argument at all. I feel as if the better teams have gotten worse. I don't want to get all cocky, but I feel like a lot's going to have to happen for the Wings not to be the favorites all the way up to victory #4 in the '08/'09 Cup Finals. Trades happen and teams come out of nowhere, but I think Detroit's going to be pretty unstoppable this year. I feel like we could lose any one of our superstars (even Lidstrom) to injury for the season and still compete with anyone. And to be objective, I don't think it will be so easy after next year even if we keep Hossa. Other teams will get better and we'll trail off in some way, shape or form. We'll compete, but next year, man, a repeat is looking pretty reasonable.

O - 1 D - 1 G - 5-10 range if not better. Osgood's always been overrated and he's playing better than ever and with swagger. I think he'll top this year next season as the clear starter and an even better team in front of him.

As excited as I am about landing Hossa, I still think this is the most important signing that's gone on thus far. This was a need. Hossa just takes us over the top. To get the Stuart deal done at the price they did and all...that's just good stuff and I'm really happy for Brad Stuart. I hope he really comes to feel at home in Detroit now. He'll be great to have around.

Even if we lose Flip, this is going to be an outstanding team going into camp. The crazy thing is, I just expect guys like Hudler, Stuart, Franzen and even Dats and Z to be better after winning the Cup. Swagger. Boom. Now Hossa? Man...I just hope he loves it here so much that they can work out a way to keep him around.

Yeah, I mean, I like Flip and all and think he's a descent player but I don't see him getting tremendously better than he is. He just doesn't seem to have the same tenacity that big stars have. I don't think he's worth more than 2-2.5 mil so if it's going to take more than that, then hey, he got a Cup, helped along the way and was just a good guy to have around, but best of luck moving on...

What's great about this is that it shows Hossa likes the organization and wants to win more than money. He could've had a huge long term deal from numerous other teams and he came here for less and 1 year knowing he'll likely have to go through all this again next year now most likely. He'll work his ass off for us. Goooooooood times.

I don't think that's necessary. I think the whole world knows that Hanks a Wing for as long as he wants to be a Wing no questions asked. The eskimo's even know.

Outstanding. That's all that need be said.

What sucks now is having to wait for the regular season. Stuart will be healthy and secure and will only get better because of it and good night, our offense now with Hossa!??!?!?! October won't be here soon enough, let alone April!

McCarty and Downey are going to sign 2-way deals and likely will spend a good amount of time in Grand Rapids on said deals so that shouldn't be too awful. Chelios will be about as cheap as he can be. Flip's a wildcard now, but hell, if Hossa buys into the system and wants to stick around and take a paycut, perhaps with another increase in the cap we can find a way to keep him past this year and at that point, Flip who?