gcom007

Yeah, it's crazy nuts to think Mrazek has the potential to challenge Howard for the starting spot in 1-2 years. That's all I'm saying, and I don't think many here would actually disagree with that timeline too much. You might want to try actually reading what I'm saying.

They wanted Howard up earlier, but he kept blowing his chances. He wasn't in good shape at least once if not several times heading into camp, and even when he made the team, it was because they were out of options for him and it was his last chance. His later age of entry into the NHL had nothing to do with wanting him to "over-ripen" and everything to do with the fact that he failed to make the cut earlier. Bear in mind though that I'm not saying we should promote Mrazek to starter and trade Howard now. As I've said whenever this has come up, this is something that will need to be sorted out in 1-2 years. Mrazek will no doubt make the team next year and I don't doubt that Babcock will give him every opportunity to win the starting job from Howard. If he can do it, well, then we have a good problem, because Howard at the very least is a very good goalie, one of the better ones in the game when he's on. It'll be no small feat, but Mrazek is likely capable of it, and if he does so, something will have to be sorted out. Again, it'll be a good problem to have ultimately. I dreaded coming on here last night due to this. One rough ******* game and people lose their s***. It's absurd. But as noted above, Playmaker's statements are a bit off-base and don't account for certain realities of the Howard situation specifically.

That's also operating under the assumption that Howard will be okay taking a reduced role, which he might not be, and the Wings might feel more open to moving him just for the fact that he should be a starter somewhere. But you bring up another interesting wrinkle about how and contracts will get structured. I wonder who Mrazek's agent is and if he's been known to play hardball in the past with other guys. You've got to imagine that he won't make it easy on the Wings. Mrazek and especially his agent, whoever that may be, are not going to be oblivious to his value. Two years at backup prices seems very reasonable on the next deal, but they'll want to clean up after that if he becomes the goalie a lot of people believe he will be. And again, the whole reason I can't see them moving Howard in his last year or two even is the age thing, unless he attains some serious playoff credentials by then. I just don't know if any teams are going to want to trade for a 34-35 year old goalie with a $5.3 million cap hit who hasn't even made it to the 3rd round of the playoffs. That's why I think he either has a lot of playoff success here in this year or next, or he gets moved. It gets a lot harder to trade him the longer it goes on, and even if his deal doesn't spell cap doom immediately, there could be enough factors at play to make a trade make sense sometime after next season that I think it's likely to happen.

Highly unlikely given his injuries, and ultimately unnecessary. He's still a good backup when healthy, and once Howard's back, it's going to do Mrazek no favors to have him in a straight backup role, so they'll send him back down to GR to get more starts. If they want him as the backup in the playoffs, they'll have him.

It's a nice idea, but I don't know if it'll fly in the cap world given Howard's age and contract length. In the 2016 off-season, you've still got three years left on Howard's contract, not two. For better or for worse, we know Babcock isn't afraid to go with the goalie that's winning, and if Mrazek comes up and outplays Howard, which he might be capable of, he's going to get a lot of starts. I do think he'll be given an opportunity to win a starting role next year in an A/B situation, and I don't think they'd let him go in the playoffs unless he's out of this world, it could end up being Howard's last chance to stay a Wing. The way I see it, unless Howard wins a Cup in the next couple years, he's going to be trade bait after next season if Mrazek ends up looking ready to be an NHL starter next year. That doesn't mean I think they'll absolutely trade Howard in the 2016 off-season, but I think that'll be the point where he becomes a piece that's on the table. Ideally, you'd have him around the next year as well as insurance for Mrazek, but realistically, he's priced too high to be a backup in the cap world, and he's likely too old to wait to trade him until he only has a year or two left on his contract. Mrazek may not have the NHL experience yet to make this an open and shut case, but Howard doesn't have the playoff experience to cement his status here either. I'd honestly love to see it happen, as I like Howard a lot and think he's capable and I think this team is capable of making a real stink this year or next. But if he can't do it and Mrazek continues to play strong when given the opportunity, it's really tough to justify keeping Howard at his cap hit when he's about the only player we have that has serious value on the trade market.

I wasn't worried about a goaltending drop off with Mrazek, but I'm still glad to see that he's giving me plenty of reasons to be confident in him. The kid looks great. I don't think losing Rinne and losing Howard are the same thing, especially with Mrazek in net, but a win is a win and to get one this big against a team like Nashville this year, even without Rinne, is no small thing. Anyone who thinks this Red Wings team can't go toe to toe with just about any team in the league this year is misinformed.

The universe will not allow the Red Wings to acquire Yandle before he is 35. Fact.

Absurd. And this team has potential.

I absolutely was not one of those people. I think it's a situation that will need to be sorted out in the next 1-2 years. That's where I've stood on the issue for awhile. There's a lot of "ifs" there, and there's also a pretty reasonable timeline to sort out those "ifs." I'm definitely not ready to hand over the keys at this point either. But if Mrazek is as good as people think he's going to be, the sooner we get him rolling as the starter, the better, because they're most likely going to have to decide on Howard or Mrazek in the next couple years, and Mrazek is a lot younger. I think a lot of people forget that though Howard hasn't been in the league for that many years, he didn't even make the team until he was 25. If you recall, he was at the end of his development rope and in a "now or never" situation heading into camp. Subsequently, he's going to be 31 this year. I'm not saying he's old, but if you want a chance to get some value for him in a trade, the move needs to be done sooner rather than later.

I didn't say now, I said in the next year or two. A year or two makes for an exceedingly different story. Howard has four more seasons on his deal at a relatively heavy cap hit after this season. If Mrazek plays strong this season and comes in next year in a backup role and continues to play up to snuff with Howard, I don't think Howard's sticking around unless Howard win's a Cup this year or next. And bear in mind, when push comes to shove, he hasn't proven much in the post-season yet. He's lost more games than he's won, doesn't have stellar numbers, and while you can't single-handedly fault him for our playoff failures as of late, he has yet to perform in the playoffs as well as he's performed in the regular season when he's been on. And that said, he's absolutely had some inconsistent regular seasons in a not so long career. I'm not saying I don't like Howard nor am I saying that I don't think he's capable of leading this team to a Cup. I think he's a very good goalie and I honestly do like him a lot. But realistically speaking, he doesn't have anything close to a strong playoff resume yet, and if he doesn't get one soon, he's going to be in a position where he's expendable if Mrazek proves he's ready to be the number one guy. If Mrazek is at least as good as Howard, and many think he'll be better, there's just no way you can justify keeping Howard into his mid-30s given his cap hit unless Howard becomes a Stanley Cup winning goalie in the next 1-2 years. (And again, to be clear, I do believe that's possible.) I'll be pleasantly surprised if he's back in a month.

Hossa was offered a contract that was borderline if not straight up insulting. If Holland had offered him a reasonable contract, Hossa would've signed here, no doubt about it. He clearly wanted to play for the Wings, but he has to have some self-respect, and it was pretty clear that Holland didn't want to make any sacrifices to sign Hossa to a reasonable deal.

I hope he does it if only to raise his value should we decide to trade him! Gotta be pragmatic at the very least. But if anything, it just seems like he's had a rougher development in some ways, but Howard struggled as well early on and came out strong once he hit the NHL. Everyone's different though and it's really tough to say. It'd be great to have two relevant goaltending prospects waiting in the Wings in any event. It's a very good problem to have. But that said, I do think Mrazek is ultimately going to be our guy, and I also wouldn't be shocked at all if he ends up being the reason Howard is traded in the next year or two. If we've got a young guy ready to take over the starting job who's capable of being as good or better than Howard for a lot less money in the short term, Howard is instantly going to become trade-bait, though at least it'll be the best trade bait we've had in about 4-5 years.

Absolutely. He's a player you build teams around. He's going to make the guys around him better and set a great example. He would've been a tremendous asset to this team and I truly believe it would've made for a much smoother last four years. Having another guy like Hossa in the lineup, especially on a team like the Wings, sets a tone and raises the bar of what's expected out of guys, and you can never have enough of that kind of energy. If you can land a guy who brings that to a team, you do what you have to in order to make it happen. Furthermore, he raises the profile of the team, and makes it all the more likely that we'll be on players radars when we're trying to cut deals in the future. The most frustrating part of that situation was that we really would've had one year of cap hell. One. Everyone knew the cap was going to keep going up and we were going to have more room to breathe moving forward. All we had to do was find a way to make it work for one year and we've got another elite two-way player on our team for the length of his career. And hell, if anything, it would've been a double blessing as we would've been forced us to move some clunky pieces for something as opposed to losing them for nothing as eventually happened, with no major benefits gained from keeping them around. But for the love, I've seen a lot of dumb stuff posted on here, but suggesting that Franzen is a better value than Hossa based off of points per game relative to cap hit is seriously one of the more absurd and utterly simplistic suggestions I've seen made on here.

Hossa was offered a truly low-ball contract if I remember correctly. And yes, it would've required moving pieces. Sometimes that's what it takes to land elite level talent. Considering how hard of a time we've had since acquiring even ho-hum average-ish mid-level guys, I'd say it would've been worth it to make the deal when we had the chance. And way to use points per game to compare a one-dimensional player like Franzen with a guy who's a two-way force who hustles at both ends of the ice. The thing about having a guy like Hossa is that he can put up goals and points and still play a great two-way game. His work ethic was top notch, and again, the kind of example a player like that sets for younger guys coming up is of huge value to a team. What kind of example does Franzen set these days???

I didn't care so much about signing Franzen at the time. I cared more that Holland didn't do more to keep Hossa. He should've let some of the free agents that eventually walked anyways go without trying, and he should've dealt our old underachieving buddy Mr. Flipper to make room for Hossa. I would've taken Hossa over Franzen in a heartbeat, even when Franzen was at his best, but Holland should've done more to keep Hossa when he could've had him signed at a great cap hit for life. Hossa is a heart and soul guy who gives his all on the ice and sets a great example for the younger players coming up. Getting Hossa signed should've been priority number one. It still just pisses me off.

I'm over the Zetterberg thing. Have been for years. Don't really care. That said, I have to say that fight was underwhelming.

I am still so, so, so bitter about letting Hossa go. It was a colossally idiotic decision.

And that's not something they can rather easily fix? He'll mature. Relax. There's a reason why a lot of smart people believe he's our goalie of the future.

I'm honestly really excited about Mrazek getting an opportunity to be the starter. I was honestly hoping he would get a chance at some point this season in some ways. That's not to say I hoped Howard got injured, but injuries happen, and if it did, I was hoping they would use it as an opportunity to really give Mrazek more of an opportunity. I also figured that might be likely because Gus isn't always healthy either, so it just seemed like it was a reasonable possibility... And what do you know... But yeah, I'm pretty excited. I think Mrazek is likely to surprise some people, and as I said before, I don't think the quality of goaltending is going to drop severely. Howard's been having a great year, but Mrazek is more than capable of winning games and will no doubt continue to improve the more starts he gets. He's clearly a confident goalie, if anything maybe too confident at times, but ultimately, that'll serve him well. This is a great opportunity for him and for the team to see where he's really at.

The who situation was a s***show. Holland knee-jerk signs Hasek to keep him from a rival and the whole thing blows up in his face. It was just a bad move in every possible way. I respect the goalie that Hasek was, but the guy was the focus point for about the only drama this team has had in the last ten years. I give him credit for going out humbly in 2008 when he got pulled, he handled it like a class act, but I still in many ways wish we would've just skipped the Hasek era altogether. And anyone who wants to try to take anything from Cujo's playoff performance while here is a damn fool. The guy was about our only bright spot.

Per Twitter: Brendan Savage @BrendanSavage Ken Holland said Jimmy Howard was scheduled to have an MRI at noon today and the @RedWings "expect results later this evening" https://twitter.com/BrendanSavage/status/554328338882625536

I think Mrazek is up to the task and will improve the more he plays. I've got a bit of faith in him, and we know Monster is capable of getting wins and he'll be back pretty soon either way. I'm not incredibly worried about a major drop off in performance from Howard being out. But I'm wondering when we're going to get a status report on Howard. I keep scanning the newsfeeds looking for something and so far, nothing. I imagine he's back in Detroit today getting tested. Hopefully we'll know more at some point. And hopefully it's not a tear. That's not a slow recovery and some people never fully recover.

Howard confirmed to have a groin issue of some sort, so sounds like the knees are safe. But that looked like no joke of a groin pull.

I wouldn't either if I was stuck with your user name next to everything I wrote.

I see what you did there...