gcom007

I doubt he's going anywhere real soon either, but I think you're giving the system a little too much credit on the rebuilding process front. The kids floundered in the playoffs, and if we were healthier, we might've just had an old lineup that couldn't get it done. And the reality is that Z's back is going to force him into a decline quicker than he would if he didn't have back issues. I'm not saying he won't be effective or a great leader, but he is at the very least unlikely to continue to produce at a high level as more time goes by. And yes, you add health, get some more experience for the kids and less dead weight and we're in better shape for sure on some levels, but a lot of this stuff has been said each summer for 4-5 years now. Very little has been done to improve the roster outside of bringing up prospects that has worked, and that is a very clear fact at this point, not speculation. Until we see some real changes in the way Holland puts this team together, I still think we're ultimately in a slow decline. We will not be able to continue to compete at a playoff level as Dats and Z decline with our defense. Even if Jimmy bounces back from a rough year, our defense is far too often a huge liability and you can't expect your goalie to stop everything. Holland first and foremost has to make a real commitment to improving the defense. If another summer goes by and nothing on that front changes, something in management has to change. That said, again, I don't think Babcock is eager to jump ship at all and I don't think it'll necessarily happen right away, but I think it's more than fair to infer that he wants to keep his options open for a reason. If he truly believed in how green his grass can be here in Detroit, he wouldn't flat out say that he's not going to sign an extension this summer, especially after Holland flat out said he wants to sign Babcock to an extension this summer. Clearly, it's not about money as Babcock is already one of if not the highest paid coach and Holland would beat any salary another team would throw at him. If it's not about money and he believes that this will continue to be a good place to be, why is he unwilling to talk about an extension? Sure, there could be nothing to it, but I think there's likely to be something more to it if he's willing to flat out shut down the possibility of something the GM has expressed he wants. Add to that Holland's unwillingness to let Blashill go yet with Babcock's future not set in stone and at the very least, you have two parties that are covering their asses, obviously for some reason. If Holland again is unable to make this team better and it's another season of struggling just to make the playoffs only to lose early on, it's hard to imagine Babcock won't be interested in at the very least hearing about what's out there. He still might not leave, even if he gets a great offer, as I don't think he's misleading anyone when he says he's happy here. But I don't see him continuing to coach weak teams who's only hope is squeaking into the playoffs. I think we're starting to see that the idea that anyone making the playoffs has a chance isn't is true as it seemed for a few years. Babcock wants to win, bottom line. He's loyal, but he knows full well that this isn't the only job he'll be able to get and he's made that clear several times recently, while also shooting down talks of an extension.

The only reason it would make even a semblance of sense for the Wings to go after Miller is if we could sign him to a shorter deal than Howard's and then deal Howard. I don't necessarily think it's an upgrade or a downgrade because both goalies have shown themselves to be at times brilliant but largely inconsistent. But if Mrazak is the future as many seem to think he is and is ready to take over the starting job in 2-3 years, it'd be nice to not have to still have Howard's cap hit hanging around in that period as well. At the end of the day, I'm not nearly as down on Howard as some are despite all of last season's problems, but I am now far less enthralled about the length of his deal given that he's making a decent chunk of change now. But again, even if we were to magically sign Miller and deal Howard, it's mostly a lateral move in the present and does nothing to address the bigger issues facing this team. I don't think it's at all likely to happen though, and even if it were to, I think the only legitimate upside is the potential to sign a capable goalie to a shorter deal, and again, that's assuming Miller would agree to a shorter deal.

I absolutely think there's a possibility that Babcock could leave next year or sometime in the next 2-3 years, and I do think there's something to the fact that he stated that he doesn't want to sign an extension right now. I don't think that means that he's absolutely leaving next year though at all. I don't think there's anything to the rumors going around about Babcock being set on leaving next year. I don't think he has any plans to leave at this moment, and I certainly don't think he knows where he'd go. Even if Babcock did have some semblance of a real plan, I don't think anyone writing these articles is informed at all about such matters, and are just speculating because Babcock is generally considered to be the top coach in the game right now, the Wings have been struggling, and he's not interested in signing an extension at the moment. I'd bet that what Babcock's said about not wanting to sign an extension is where any legitimate information about the matter ends. That said, again, I think there's something to that. If I were speculating, I'd say it's a message to the Wings management more than anything. Holland wants Babcock to say and has said that he wants to talk about an extension with him this summer. Babcock is the one who at least at this point has nixed the idea and said he'd do one-year deals after his current contract is up. So if Babcock leaves anytime soon, it's going to be his decision. If Holland has expressed to the media that he wants to talk to Babcock this summer about an extension, and Babcock has expressed to the press that he's not interested in doing so and wants to do one-year deals after this contract, to me, that's Babcock sending a message to Ken Holland and the rest of the Wings management. I don't think he's saying for sure that he's going to leave, and honestly, I don't think he wants to leave. But I don't think there's any way to interpret what's been said other than to think that Babcock wants to make sure the Wings know that he has options and he's willing to keep the door open on them. Babcock came to Detroit because it's one of the top organizations in all of sports and we've built a tradition in the last twenty years of being successful and always going for it. But things have been in a steady decline over the last few years and Holland thus far really hasn't done anything to suggest he's willing and able to turn it around. If things continue as they have, I don't expect that Babcock will want to stick around, and I do think that's the message he is sending to management. If this was an internally planned transition to bring Blashill up to take over for Babcock, why would Holland be talking about trying to sign Babs to an extension? Why would Babcock be saying he's not interested in that and will sign one-year deals after this contract expires next summer? Sure, it could all just be a smokescreen, but I really doubt it. I think Babcock is sending a message that he needs to see a real change and more of an effort from management to put a solid roster together. He knows he can get a job anywhere, and he knows that Holland knows that. And as much as the Wings don't want to lose Blashill, I don't think anyone in management wants to see Babcock move to a team like the Penguins, though I say that for example only, not because I buy the rumors at all. Babcock has had to coach a team of Griffins players into the playoffs now two years in a row, while guys taking up decent chunks of cap space sit in the press box either injured or simply not good enough to crack the lineup. All the while, he has to hear Holland talk about how everyone is too expensive and none of the deals made sense. Like everyone else, do you really think Babcock isn't wondering what part of Holland's strategy the last four years then makes sense? He may truly have a good relationship with Holland, but he's no fool at the end of the day. Cap space has gone unused. Cap space has been wasted on guys that can't contribute and sit in the press box or play in Grand Rapids. Your so-called stars can't be relied upon to produce. The defense has withered to the point where the pairings read more like a joke someone would have made three years ago. We would've all laughed, because even though the idea of losing Rafalski, Stuart and Lidstrom sounded terrible, it could never get that bad. Welcome to 2014, where yesterday's doom and gloom jokes about the defense have taken shape in reality, but we still were signing more forwards in August last year even though we already had too many. If Holland turns it around and gives Babcock a roster that features a real defense and a slightly refreshed offense, and it becomes clear once again that we're going to actually take the idea of being a top team seriously, I fully expect Babcock to stay, even if it means losing Blashill. If we see a repeat of the last four summers and another roster full of holes on defense, I think it's very likely Babcock will leave. Maybe he really will take a non-NHL job; who knows? As said, I doubt Babcock really even knows, though I do know for certain that Art Regner nor anyone else writing about hockey on blogs or in papers has absolutely any idea at all. But given what's been said by Holland and Babcock, I think it's clear that Babs is at a point where he's willing to throw his weight around and send the message that he is not content to continue to polish turd rosters just enough to hopefully eek into the playoffs and lose.

Even with the Cup they won, they beat a crippled Wings team where even Lidstrom was missing games and nearly every star was playing with significant injuries. And it still took game 7 and some very favorable calls from the refs to get there. Future headline: U of M Babcockblocks the Penguins

I think Chicago will win, but who knows with the Kings. They're an interesting team. But I bet Chicago wins and goes on to win the Cup. Three Cups in five years if they pull it off. They're easy to hate, but that they're at all in the position they are again even now proves a lot of the naysayers wrong. It really makes me wish we still had at least one guy with the last name of "Bowman" involved in our organization...it's been a steady downhill since Scotty left for us while the Blackhawks are on the brink of dynasty.

I believe we'll learn a lot more about this...next summer.

As fun as the idea sounded after a dismal final stretch of the season and playoffs, this really shouldn't be surprising. But just because we're not buying him out doesn't mean that he'll stay here. I still think there's a possibility that he could get traded. Despite how frustrating he's been here, he's had enough hot streaks in the past that some teams will still be interested. And realistically speaking, his cap hit isn't that bad in this day and age. Plus, some guys have left Detroit and found a way to play better in a different environment; someone could trade for him in hopes of that. Obviously, we wouldn't get a great return, as anyone going for him is going to be gambling and accepting the fact that he's got a lot of years left on that deal. But getting something for him is better than handing him however many millions of dollars Illitch would have to if we bought him out. Maybe I'm way off, but we live in a world where the Tigers found a way to trade Prince Fielder. So in this crazy, upside-down world we live in, you'd have to think that there's at least some likelihood that the Wings could find a team willing to trade for Franzen. And to be honest, if you've read this far, I'm underselling the idea because I know there are people here who have a completely irrational yet rational hate for him at this point. I definitely think there are teams that would still trade for Franzen. The bigger question is more likely whether Holland will agree to a deal that has the potential to be lopsided should Franzen find a way to get his game going again.

And I was the crazy one on here who never bought the concussion rumor...people weren't using their heads on that one.

No, not really at all. Those guys had much more traditional developments heading into the NHL. They had normal rookie seasons where they were part of a team for the majority of the season. Yzerman and Federov started off at a seemingly much higher level (on the scoresheet at least) and stayed there, but it was also during a period in which scoring was much higher. Datsyuk and Zetterberg hard normal rookie seasons and started slower on the scoresheet, but they had time in the NHL to adjust to becoming not just NHL players, but stars and leaders. But in any event, the NHL development of those four players you mentioned was absolutely nothing like what many of our younger skilled prospects like Nyquist have undergone. And as said at length above, I don't think the sort of rushed and overenthusiastic "development" is the kind of thing that leads to a strong mental game which is incredibly important. Expectations get artificially raised and a guy ends up doing too much battling in his mind while dealing with the pressure he feels from outsiders who expect him to be able to play like he did during an unusual circumstance all the time. I don't think it's healthy, and again, it's nothing like what the four players you mentioned went through.

I think a lot of it has to do with what I started getting at in my thread a couple weeks ago: Nyquist since Datsyuk's Return & Unnatural NHL Development Nyquist had 2 assists for 2 points in 11 games once Datsyuk returned. I think when the big guy was back, he likely changed his approach to everything in his game. And I really do mean everything. I don't care how much teams can learn about a guy and work to shut him down, once Datsyuk came back, if anything, he should've at least had more room some of the time because you can't just ignore Datsyuk. And the guy was on such a tear for more than just a couple of weeks, that he only was able to muster 2 assists in 11 games once Datsyuk returned, playoffs and Boston's D or not, you've got to acknowledge that some of the synapses that were firing in his head that lead him to be successful while Datsyuk was gone started firing in a different way, absolutely not for the better. There's really no other logical explanation for such a complete drop off in production. That said, as I said in my thread, I don't think there's anything wrong with Nyquist or a lot of our guys, but I think the adrenaline rush you have when you get called up from the minors to replace someone who's injured in the middle of the season can sometimes get you through a lot of the bumps in the road regular NHL guys have to learn to work through by simply growing as an NHL player. It can be like rocket fuel for some guys, Nyquist included in this case. So some of these guys come up and play at a really high level off of this adrenaline rush, and then when they're dropped back down to the minors or a major team dynamic changes like Datsyuk coming back, the flimsy nature of an adrenaline rush gets shaken, and suddenly you're not only changing your game or playing in a different role, you're struggling with a new mental battle of trying to match what you've now already done. Expectations mount not just in your own mind, but among your team, your coaches, the media, the fans. That's a lot for a young guy to take, and it's certainly not the kind of headache they need when they really should just be focusing on how to become a regular NHLer. That's a hard enough task for most guys, but when you tack on the expectations that come from these one-off mid-season surges, I think you stand to really derail a guys natural progress. The ultimate point of my original thread was that clearly we have a lot more guys in GR that are ready for the NHL than we thought, but we can't expect them to just manifest the skills it takes to be an NHL regular in the middle of the season when they're just blown away by the excitement of finally playing in the NHL. I think we need to start bringing guys up a little bit earlier than we have and giving them time to adjust to being an NHL regular in a more normal lineup. This takes a lot of that early pressure off and allows a guy more time to grow into his skill set and develop mentally. I admit, I could be way off on this, but the last 5-6 years, I've been paying more attention to this sort of thing and it's become more and more apparent as time's gone on that there might be something to it. We've seen a lot of guys come through our system, have their "flash in the pan" moments of brilliance at odd times, typically when playing in a role that they would not be in normally at an early stage in their career, and as they become NHL regulars, they end up struggling not only with general consistency, but more so with coming close to matching the performances they achieve when the stars aren't in the lineup. That is a mental struggle, because if you can dial it in in certain moments and not others, we're not talking about a physical or technical limitation, we're talking about self-imposed mental barriers that guys are putting up. Again, while it's clearly a theory and one that may be very wrong, I think there might be a good chance that we might see more consistent and ultimately better long-term results from some of our more skilled players if they're allowed to do some of their ripening on the NHL level in a smaller role suitable to grow and learn in. They'd be used to playing in a lineup with the stars and vets, and they'd be used to the grind of the NHL and the typical ups and downs. It's just hard for me to imagine that not helping a player to develop a better mental game, while I can think of countless reasons why early success in unusual situations can set a guy up for failure and stifle the growth of their mental game. And of course, the side-benefit I mentioned of less room for washed up mid-level guys that have mostly been disaster signings for awhile now. Big plus right there to my development suggestion...

Smith was shockingly pretty good down the stretch here. If he can keep improving he'll be solid. But yeah, we definitely need to see if it can last before we get too excited. He's about the only Wing that seemed to really find that extra gear to shift into for the playoffs.

Absolutely. I don't disagree. He was putting it off until he couldn't though Olympics or not. He probably should've had it done in December.

I don't wholly disagree, but I think Z's back was going to go real quick Olympics or not. In some ways, it might've been a blessing that he went this year as he was able to get the surgery done and then he had 2 weeks to start rehab where he wasn't missing games. If it had gone during a normal season, he would've been missing 2 more weeks of games at least. But overall, not sure how I feel about the Olympics. I love them and all, but they really do derail a season and set up some teams for some horrible issues.

There was a period of time after the Olympics where Alfie wasn't as good, but neither was Kronwall. They both had long Olympic runs while everyone else had rest, and then were expected to come back and be leaders on a team that was more battered than ever. I give him a pass for that because he did get it going again down the stretch. And next year, there's no Olympics and you'd have to hope we'll be healthier and can give Alfie a role that he can thrive in more.

I have no problem with Alfie back at a reasonable price. He's taking way too muck flack for what has been a pretty solid year. I don't think we would've made the playoffs without him because he was one of our main leaders down the stretch who wasn't injured. The Cap is going up and I think it's highly likely that we're not going to use all the space up, so if Alfie is willing to stay for a reasonable amount, again, I have no problem with it. We have way, way, way bigger problems than Alfie.

Doesn't matter now, but Howard backed up, which I'd think dispels the concussion theory. Maybe we'll find out the real story in the next day or so. At least Gus came in and did everything you could ask of him. He definitely gave us more than a chance in both these games.

So who's doing Ken Holland's exit interview?

Please.

You've got to be kidding me.

Wow. Z. Could barely walk 6 weeks ago to a playoff goal scorer. Any way you think about it, that's remarkable.

Half-interested Datsyuk? Please. The guy is playing through an injury and still has 3 goals in 5 games.

Again, bad call on Alfie could've been let go, same here. I really don't like seeing all of these weak calls shaking up the flow if the game at all.

Another weak call.

Refs may be horrible today, but come on, listen to yourselves people. Totally unnecessary to be happy about a ref taking a puck to the face.

True story, but doesn't change that Boston has gotten away with plenty more as well. There have been some shocking no-calls and some bad calls on us. We've gotten away with stuff as well, but Boston's clearly a rougher team than we are and it shows. And don't get me wrong, I'd love it if the Wings were tougher. A lot tougher. And good job defense. Outstanding. Just outstanding. That's the series barring a miracle.