gcom007

Glad they called that. I don't like how much is being called right now, but if they're going to be making a lot of calls, you've gotta call that.

The Dekeyser penalty was legit but then they made a bad call on Boston and then the bad makeup call and suddenly everyone's scrambling. Smith deserved his, but that was some pathetic officiating to end the period.

Unbelievable.

Just wow. Joke calls all over.

Dumb penalty.

Nyquist has 0 luck for the playoffs. He used it all up and some in March I fear.

Well, our power play did something. Imagine this team without Datsyuk. Seriously. Only guy who's been remotely consistent in the postseason this year and he's injured.

He's been among the least of our problems.

Can't believe it's still only 1-0. It feels a lot more lopsided than that. That said, we could steal this game if we'd get a break or, I don't know, not pass the puck to a Boston player maybe?

Remember when you felt excitement when you saw numbers like 21 and 14 on the ice? Oh, March...

It was a defenseman. I think it was 2011 when the "pissed" comment was made.

There have been several occasions where Babcock has stated that he has many disagreements with Holland. There have also been occasions where he's made comments about not being happy we didn't go after guys. One time he even had a quote in the press saying he was flat out "pissed" Holland didn't go after someone given the price he ended up signing for. I can't remember who at this moment, but I really think it's safe to say this team would have a different makeup if Babcock had more of a say.

Lucky to be down 1-0. Sad state of affairs.

The only upside I can see so far is that we haven't given up the second goal right after giving up an easy first. What a terrible upside to be talking about.

If we still haven't learned that we can't give Boston so many power plays, we deserve to lose this series today. Totally unnecessary penalty that leads to what, Boston's 5th power play goal? Pathetic.

No one from the Wings had said it's a concussion, so not sure what you're getting at here.

Copying my thoughts from the Monster starting Game 5 thread... But in any event, I still am not wholly buying the concussion rumor. I've seen the play, heard several people report it, but something about the whole situation just feels a bit off for it to be a concussion. Wouldn't something like that have been caught sooner than pre-game warmups? And wasn't Gus told before warmups that he might get the start? From what I understand, Jimmy was in the pre-game warmups and the call was made after that he couldn't go. If they had a suspicion that something was up and it was a concussion, he wouldn't be taking pre-game warmups. Concussions aren't something you see if you can play through. So I'm thinking it really is the flu or it's some other more minor injury they're trying to hide as it's the playoffs. Again, keep in mind that Babcock said after Friday's practice that Gus was starting game 5 and he expected Howard to be backup. He would know if it's a concussion or not, and if he knew it was a concussion, he'd know Howard isn't going to be the backup, and there just isn't really any psychological angle to suggesting otherwise. Maybe I'm reaching, but something doesn't add up, and I'd prefer to believe that it's truly the flu or a more minor injury. It's far more likely that he could return for game 6 if we pull off a win if it's one of those two things, whereas if it is a concussion, you'd have to think he's at least done for this series. I'm really not trying to be negative about Gus, because I think he's a fine backup and he was great in game 4, but he's the backup and Jimmy is the starter for a reason.

Interesting. Gotta love all the mixed messages in the playoffs. Surprised they don't have Mrazak coming up though considering Gustavsson hasn't exactly been the most robust goalie this year. I'd feel a bit more comfortable with Mrazak if a groin injury pops up again. But in any event, I still am not wholly buying the concussion rumor. I've seen the play, heard several people report it, but something about the whole situation just feels a bit off for it to be a concussion. Wouldn't something like that have been caught sooner than pre-game warmups? And wasn't Gus told before warmups that he might get the start? From what I understand, Jimmy was in the pre-game warmups and the call was made after that he couldn't go. If they had a suspicion that something was up and it was a concussion, he wouldn't be taking pre-game warmups. Concussions aren't something you see if you can play through. So I'm thinking it really is the flu or it's some other more minor injury they're trying to hide as it's the playoffs. Again, keep in mind that Babcock said after Friday's practice that Gus was starting game 5 and he expected Howard to be backup. He would know if it's a concussion or not, and if he knew it was a concussion, he'd know Howard isn't going to be the backup, and there just isn't really any psychological angle to suggesting otherwise. Maybe I'm reaching, but something doesn't add up, and I'd prefer to believe that it's truly the flu or a more minor injury. It's far more likely that he could return for game 6 if we pull off a win if it's one of those two things, whereas if it is a concussion, you'd have to think he's at least done for this series. I'm really not trying to be negative about Gus, because I think he's a fine backup and he was great in game 4, but he's the backup and Jimmy is the starter for a reason.

If Howard had a concussion, wouldn't he not be allowed to backup in Game 5? Aren't there pretty clear rules about players with concussions? I don't buy the story if he is backup tomorrow as Babcock suggested.

What makes you think that? In any event, not good news at all. I like Gus as a backup just fine and he played great last night, but he's a backup for a reason and can't be relied upon to stay too consistent let alone healthy himself. If this is a more serious issue with Howard, that slightest bit of hope I had that we could still pull this off will be just about gone, if only because Gus is likely to be hurt by game 6!

Tootoo was always annoying to play against, but the more I've learned about the guy off the ice, the more I really like him. It's really a bummer that his role didn't work out so well with this team. I think he could've been of help if the offense wasn't so flooded with guys. Gotta hand it to the guy for having such a good attitude about playing in Grand Rapids though. I'm sure he's not thrilled about it in the context of what he expected when he signed the deal, but it seems like he's making the best of it.

Only reasons not to bring him back are if we decide it's better to get Mrazak going at the NHL level (doubt it) or if he wants too much money, though his injury issues will likely play some part in the decision (or at least keep his price cheap). But we did a lot of winning with him in an expanded backup role this year, and he posted descent numbers in the process. Yeah, it's not always pretty and can be downright scary at times, and he'll have his terrible games now and then, but generally speaking, we got a lot of value out of him as a backup this year, and honestly, we wouldn't be in the playoffs had he not played so well early on when Howard was struggling to get wins. Anyone who wants to start talking about him competing for the starting job are as crazy as those that did the same for guys like Legace (kill me over and over in a painful manner) and Conklin (at least it was infinitely less annoying and never actually lead to two playoff implosions...), but at around $1.5-1.75 million again for a year, he's a perfectly fine backup, even with the injuries. Now on that note, if he's back next year, he likely wouldn't have to play as much as we have to think/hope that Howard is going to have a better regular season than he did this year. If that's the case, he won't be playing as much, which you'd think/hope would limit his injuries, though perhaps sitting for longer stretches could cause even more problems as practices only push guys so far. Granted if he goes down, it's an opportunity to give Mrazak some NHL time, which isn't so bad. And ultimately, if we end up having to rely on him more again because of more Howard struggles, we'd have bigger problems to sort out in goal than who the backup is anyways. So to me, it makes sense if you get him for around the same money as he got the last couple years, though probably only sign him for one year. I wouldn't be shocked if we saw Mrazak in the NHL sooner than Howard, and while next year is probably too soon, the year after wouldn't shock me. Don't forget, the only reason Howard didn't make the team sooner is because he flat out didn't make the team, year after year. He had the opportunities but was out of shape earlier on and simply not good enough to be counted upon. He made the team in his last year because they were out of options and it was his last chance. Thankfully, he put a lot of the pieces together once he got into the NHL, but it was a long time coming. Again, I don't think we'll see the same thing for Mrazak.

Maybe he gets too much credit for those earlier teams, but I won't take it away from him either because ultimately, he was getting the job done, and just because there was no cap doesn't mean it was always easy. I will say that I think he made some moronic decisions that remind me of his more recent decisions though in the no cap era, such as bringing Hasek back that 2nd time. It just wasn't a classy move at all after signing Joseph, and we absolutely didn't need him with Joseph. But for the most part, he got the job done, kept the team Bowman built running smoothly, tweaked it when need be, and again, I'm just not going to take that away from him at this point, knowing what I know now. But as successful as he was, that has not been the case at all in the cap era at least since we really started to have to deal with it. He's failed on so many levels and let this team sink far lower than was necessary. Our early success hinged on Franzen and Z making very little money, that nice cap rollback coming off the first season, and bargain basement veteran goaltending from Osgood that was good enough to shut out the Penguins in the first two games of the finals of the way to winning the Stanley Cup. Ever since we had to start making serious decisions about guys and building the team in a new way, he's seemed completely flummoxed. Hell, even he's admitted that he was shocked and unprepared for what the offseason brought in the first couple years. Then it just became "we like our team" when he couldn't or wouldn't make moves or sign guys. He's let assets go for nothing, he's failed to improve the defense, he's made far more bad free agent signings than good, and the last two years, the teams he put together in the offseason ended up having to be carried by our Grand Rapids kids to make the playoffs. We are clearly a team running on fumes at this point, and as the two key guys that have kept this team competitive consistently decline with age and retire, we will be in very serious trouble if Holland hasn't changed his ways or been replaced. Again, if we go out unceremoniously this season, if it was my call, he'd be out as GM. I would keep him in the organization if possible, because I don't think he's useless, but the breaking point for me was after two seasons of failing to improve our D at all from the outside after losing Rafalski, Stuart and Lidstrom, he was still signing forwards when we already had too many last August. That was when I really lost my faith in him being able to get the job done. Maybe he still could find a way to build a great team in another organization where he was more emotionally disconnected, but in Detroit, I just don't think he has the stomach to make the tough calls and take chances anymore, and it's why this team has been in decline since 2009. And that Babcock's done what he has with the pieces he's been given continues to impress me. I think it's absurd that people want him gone. Nobody's perfect, and it's unfair to expect them to be, but he's overcome a lot and kept this team competitive and in the hunt year after year despite losing key players, dealing with Holland's lousy signings, and then all of the injuries the last couple years. He's maintained a pattern of success relative to what he's been given and had to deal with. The same cannot be said for Holland at this point. Maybe he got unlucky and it could've been different if Weiss had played more of the year and helped us, but he didn't, and the health issues weren't a secret when he was signed either. Bad luck or bad decision, it doesn't change the fact that he's had four seasons in a row now where he's mostly failed to help make this team better. They've been in decline since 2009, there's been far more bad signings than good in that span of time, and our saving grace the last two years has been either Dats and Z carrying the team (and definitely Howard too last season) or kids from GR coming up and playing better than they should and maybe ever will again. Enough is enough. And to those who say that at least we are in the playoffs, I hear you on one level. It shows we still have a solid core and I think Babcock deserves credit there too. But consider then that given our ability to still make the playoffs in spite of so many clear failings in the GM department, imagine how much better we might be had we made better decisions the last four years. Imagine if instead of overspending on some of the useless forwards we'd signed, we overspent on even a solid mid-level defenseman instead. Imagine that, you know, we overspent in a way that actually addressed our ridiculously blatant needs. Everybody's overspending. It's the nature of the beast. We are too, we're just doing it in a colossally ass backwards way. This team could be better and absolutely should've been better for some time. If Holland can no longer help then be better, it's time for him to go, simple as that. After all, sometimes change is good. Sometimes it's bad. Same thing goes for no change though. At some point you just have to take that risk though when things aren't working. If we can keep Holland in the organization and retain the scouting staff, I don't think we have anything to lose.

I still can't believe he's been out this long with a broken finger. I've never fully warmed up to the guy like some, and this just fits in with the image of him that I have, which is soft and clumsy. I know he's improved, and we all know he'd be a huge help right now given that we have Lashof and Kindl stinking up the 3rd pairing on a nightly basis, but I can't believe Zetterberg is back playing after what he went through and E's still out with a ******* broken finger, in the playoffs. It's probably a weirder issue than I understand, I admit, but it just doesn't quite smell right.

The Babcock presser was...special. Lots of awkward silence. I couldn't tell if he was being ambiguous about Howard or not perhaps due to injury, but he didn't seem to suggest he'd be back for game 5. Maybe he was just trying to be positive about Gus incase he has to go, but when asked about who was starting game 5, he said something like "I don't know, but Gus played great for us, so there's something to think about." I thought Gus was great tonight and I think he's done a fine job as a backup, but I really don't want to have to tempt fate with him again in a game 5 situation. The whole situation is a little bizarre though. Howard was circled on the roster Babcock submitted. I know it's playoffs and you're always going to get ambiguity when questioning guy's statuses, but this feels awkward even for playoffs. Really hoping it was just sickness and not an injury.