gcom007

Good. Love Teemu. He's a great hockey guy. He's not an angel, but as for competitive guys, he's pretty damn respectable. So what if the guy gets worked up once in awhile. He cares. You don't think our guys do that? Everyone does that.

It just hit me again how colossally insane it was to sign Samuelsson at $3 million a season. I honestly don't remember being angry about it then, as I haven't really been surprised by much the last couple years with Holland. It was just a matter of, "Oh, of course he signed Sameuelsson for $3 million a season!" And you know, I'll defend him in some ways more than some will, at least in terms of his past performance. He came up clutch for us on more than a few occasions. But goodnight, It's unbelievable how bad that deal looks right now. Like Brunner or not, it'd be better to be able to gamble on him for another year than deal with Sammy, who has and will likely continue to be captain of the press box. I'd rather have Cleary at $3 million than Sammy, and that's saying so, so, so, so, so much.

Tough to complain about that even given many fan's complaints. It's really not much to throw at a guy who has a fair amount of potential, even given his struggles at times thus far. It may not be a steal, but it's not a bad deal either. Gives him two years to prove himself and earn a big boy contract once the cap ceiling is higher. He'll get plenty of opportunity to do so it seems given that Holland has only gotten rid of a defenseman this summer as opposed to all the forwards he keeps adding.

Not saying it's necessarily the biggest conspiracy, but I doubt paychecks came into play. If the Wings really wanted to keep them, I'm sure they'd match the money. And McDonnell's move is to the same position he was in with the Wings, so I'm not sure how much bigger of a role he would get in Dallas. As multiple sources have pointed out, he ran our draft and was basically an assistant GM. Again, I'm not saying this is some big anti-Holland conspiracy, but given that they're gone, it's pretty obvious that some big names in our organization preferred Nill over Holland. There was a lot of chatter going on back when it was announced that Nill was leaving that it was a big mistake to let him get away, and many were suggesting that he might be more important to this team than Holland. Moves like this add weight to those otherwise empty claims. Any way you shake it, if these guys were happy with the Wings and Holland, they wouldn't have moved on, especially after 18 years with the organization in the case of McDonnell. It'll be very interesting to see how this all plays out. At the very least, this is disconcerting news.

I don't hate the idea of having Cleary back in general, but $2.6 million is just nuts. The guy is getting too old and while he has had his moments, particularly in the playoffs this year, his body will continue to break down and he'll become more and more inconsistent. And let's face it, consistency has never been his strong point, especially in the playoffs even when he was younger. This was his best playoff year since the 08/09 run, and the years between were hardly stellar. Seems to me that we're gambling on what was likely a fluke offseason points streak. Again, that's just not going to get any easier for him to come by the older he gets. Given what we've seen and his age, it's a lot more likely that he'll come up empty in the post-season again than he will come up big like he did this year. And let's be honest, does anyone think the Wings would really be as eager to sign him after his regular season if not for the playoff points? I think we'd want him, but I think we'd laugh hysterically at the idea of paying him what we've been paying him. Again, I don't mind having Cleary around, but at this stage, with the cap, his age, and his inconsistency to consider, if he wants to stay on this team and make a run, he should be taking a team-first contract. We ultimately don't need him, and that really ought to be the bottom line when negotiating with him.

Yep, plus it brought a return to Boston. Alfie just walked leaving Ottawa with nothing. I don't know if I blame him, and I do get it. But it's still just very weird.

I agree. It feels weird. I feel like we just stole someone's wife. There are many things I like about the deal and obviously Alfie's very, very hungry and motivated to win a Cup, which is certainly good for us, but it just feels awkward to me. And on the bizarre reasoning, I can't help but think it has something to do with the Olympics coming up and all those Swedish guys we've got skating around out there. The regular season will be good practice. If he's going to leave to focus solely on making a run at the Cup, whether we're further along or not than Ottawa, I think it makes some sense that he'd want to do so in an environment like Detroit where he'll be playing with a lot of guys he'll be making an Olympic run with. But still, this is sitting even weirder today than yesterday. Yesterday I was just as shocked as anyone and didn't really think much of it. Today, I'm thinking, selflessly for once, "are you sure you want to do this, Alfie? Can I call you 'Alfie?'"

I never liked that deal much. I don't think he put us over the top in 2002, and I do think Osgood would've been able to pull it off without a hitch. He did it twice with lesser teams than that ridiculous 2002 squad. But that trade sent Kozlov, who was always a solid playoff performer for us, packing. It also introduced the era featuring the only drama this team has had to deal with internally in a long time. If we had stuck with Osgood and kept Kozlov, I think we would've won even more Cups in that period, to be completely honest. That said, given how many issues Dom has had in his career, I thought he handled his final ousting a few years ago with a tremendous amount of class and I was happy to see him be able to retire from the NHL raising the Cup with such a sincere smile on his face. He could've easily become a locker room distraction after getting pulled, but he really was a class act throughout that run where he was forced to play a backup role. So again, hell of a career, but I honestly wish the Wings had skipped being a part of it in some ways.

Per Khan on Twitter... "Wings sign forward Luke Glendening to 1-year, 2-way deal. He flourished in AHL playoffs for Grand Rapids." https://twitter.com/AnsarKhanMLive/statuses/353265226805813249

When you have the career you've had thus far with the Wings, including all the disappointments and frustrations, and you demand a long term deal for $5.5 million because you believe you're "worth 1st line center money," I think that's you telling the Wings it's time to move on. Flip was never going to get the role he wanted on this team. The big mistake was not trading him 2-3 years ago when the situation was no different and he was our best trade asset.

I'm somewhat indifferent. I see positives and negatives to what's gone on today. Alfredsson is a descent pickup for one year, but I think it would've been better to go after Lecavalier. Weiss at $4.9 is fine in a world where Flip makes $5 million. Even if it's very much a lateral move that could go either way, I think Flip needed a change of scenery, and I think he knew that when he demanded the money he did. He likely knew the Wings wouldn't pay, and he knew he wanted a bigger role, and it wasn't going to happen here. Maybe that's why he struggled. He wasn't going to get that bigger role so long as Dats and Z is here, so it makes sense now to try something new for both sides, and again, Weiss is a totally reasonable replacement that could be an improvement, could be a downgrade, or could end up being pretty much the same. I shrug at this move, but again, I'm glad a hole was plugged for a change, so there's that. I don't like not going after Brunner hard. I don't know how it all plays out, but my gut reaction is that it's not the smartest of moves. If we find a way to sign Cleary for dirt cheap and he takes a lesser role, I think it'll be a move that frustrates many now, but will pay off come spring. I still think we really need to try to add a solid defenseman somehow, and given our wealth of forwards and need to move some of them, hopefully we can swing something. When your top guy leads the league in penalty minutes for defensemen, you really could use another "top guy" that's a bit more level headed to lead that defense. Doesn't have to be a star, but if we want to make a serious run, having someone reliable that you can instantly plug into your top-4 would be really great to have right now.

Oh, I didn't say that I think it's a reasonable possibility at this point or I know how it might work. I'm just saying that there are some who are undervaluing what he could bring to the table at the right price. Some seem to regard him as a useless player at this point, and I just don't see that as the case. I wouldn't want him at anything close to what he's making currently, and the older he gets, the more it's a gamble to give him that money. But if he were willing to accept that lesser role I mentioned for a lot less money, he'd be a great asset on a lot of teams, including the Wings.

1) Vinny for 5 years at $4.5 million would've been a great signing with this team. He'd be better than Alfredsson for at least three of those years and as good or better over the last two. And $4.5 million isn't a bad cap hit for a player like him, and it's going to be less of a concern as the cap increases in the coming years. If it's over $80 million again in years 4 and 5, and it's very likely to be, $4.5 million won't feel bad at all knowing we got a $6-7 million dollar player for $4.5 the first three years. Give and take. Alfredsson will be a good addition next year most likely, but again, I'd rather have Vinny for 5 years. 2) We'll see. I didn't out and out blame Holland or the Wings. I know it goes both ways in that situation, but I think with the moves Holland is making, he's not allowing much room for Brunner. And when one of his moves was for a one year deal on a 40 year old, you have to wonder if it wouldn't have been better to have just given Brunner the money it took to get him to sign here. Time will tell, but Brunner came into the NHL and was pretty solid in his first year. Some of the kids coming up certainly have potential, but we really don't know how well they'll adjust to the NHL game full time and the day to day pressure of playing an important role on an NHL club. Again, we've seen plenty of guys display flashes of brilliance on call ups only to sputter up and flounder around once making the real NHL transition.

I get everyone's frustrations with the guy, and I enjoy making fun of him thoroughly as well, but at the right price, he's an asset to a team making a push. Experience is worth something, and he brings plenty. At the right price, I still think this is a good deal for the Wings or any team. $3 million over 3 years though, what he was supposedly being offered by the Wings or wanting, is TOTALLY BATs*** INSANE though, just to be clear. But I'd love to sign Cleary for a million, million and a half for a year or two, so long as he was cool taking a lesser role throughout the season. Judging by how much time he spends out on his knees on the ice, I'm sure his body could use a limited role with more games off.

Alfredson isn't a bad deal (still think Vinny would've been a much smarter way to go), and Weiss, while mostly lateral, was necessary and it's good to see that a hole was plugged instead of left wide open for a change. But I don't think losing Brunner is a good call. You can blame Sammy all you want with his injury complaint, but someone still signed him to a crazy stupid deal last summer in the first place.

Maybe they'll leverage him into signing dirt cheap. I'd be fine with keeping him for dirt cheap, but alas, it's highly unlikely to happen.

Just gotta say, read Colaiacovo's interview with the team website ( http://redwings.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=676419&navid=DL|DET|home ) and it's pretty clear that Carlo is a classy guy. I was a little bummed to see him go as I thought he was one of the surprising players in the playoffs relative to missing the whole year. I get why it went down, but it's too bad those injuries follow him around. Might've ended differently for him here.

Change could definitely be good for him. You have to wonder how motivated he was to be a Wing asking for $5 million+, and who could blame him in some ways? Perhaps he'll be able to elevate his play on a team where he has more of a chance to be a top player. It wasn't going to happen in Detroit so long as Dats and Z were around. But as I've said all along, I wish Holland had realized this 2-3 years ago and traded him to help fill a more pressing need back when he was by far our best trade asset...

Z, D and C is crying in a corner somewhere.

Not shocking, but shocking all the same.

A very, very, very small part of me is going to miss threads like this. Few things get as silly as a Flip argument. Z, D and C is really going down in a flame on this one...

Are you kidding? It's likely to be a weaker team. Flip was few people's favorite, but not having him and likely not really replacing him absolutely won't help. And again, I'm not convinced we sign Brunner. I'm also not convinced all our kids who excelled will automatically get back to playing at a higher level. We've seen plenty of examples of GR kids coming up and playing well in a pinch only to struggle when having to take on that bigger role on a regular basis. It's a very different kind of pressure when you become a regular, and more tend to struggle especially early on in their careers before they become consistent NHLers.

The thing I'll say about Stan Bowman is that he seems to believe the team with the core they have is good enough to really go for it almost every year, because they are. What bothers me more than anything about Holland, especially after this last run, is that despite having a similar core to Chicago (with consistently better goaltending to boot) in Zetterberg, Datsyuk and even Kronwall for that matter, he seems to sweat every detail and be content to let the core just keep the playoff streak up as opposed to actually try to do something in the playoffs. Like I've said again and again, if you want to blow the team up and truly rebuild, fine. But actually do it. Don't just use it as a talking point after you fail to land anyone significant once again because you played it too conservative and felt emotionally compelled to sign players you're familiar with. But if not, don't keep wasting the talents of Z and Dats. They're not getting any younger and this team is too close to not go for it. So what if it doesn't work? So what if we end up having cap struggles? Holland's supposed to be one of the best GMs, why can't he work it out like others have been able to? That's what the best GMs are doing in the cap era, and they've got Cups from this era to prove that they're doing something right. We won our last Cup in the cap era, but Z and Franzen were also at their career bests and both were on old contracts that paid them very little. We also had two Stanley Cup winning goalies that were playing here for next to nothing. We were lucky, and we absolutely weren't feeling the cap yet. Since the cap truly started affecting contract decisions, Holland has come up with nothing but failures. 2009, if not 2008, was a clear line in the sand for Holland in terms of maneuvering to make this team better with NHL talent via trade or free agency. I get that Holland has plenty of accolades that attribute to his reputation as a GM, but if you can't see the pattern that's been developing since he truly had to build a team while dealing with a salary cap, you're not being objective. And that should worry you, and it's perfectly reasonable to admit that without taking away from his former successes. It's a different league and he's dealing with different rules now than he had to before. But again, the great GMs of the cap era have to find a way to work around those rules, and they can't ignore free agency or trading altogether if they're going to be successful. And for the love, you have to get more hardline with the current guys on your roster that are getting older if they want to stay. Guys like Cleary are nicer to have around than they get credit for, but not at the money being talked about, and not when you have talent like you do in GR. If they're going to stick around, they need to play ball, and Holland needs to be willing to let them walk otherwise. I think in many cases, you'd find guys willing to adjust their expectations if Holland's expectations on what a reasonable contract for an older role player is. Bottom line, decent playoff run or not, Cleary should absolutely not be getting a raise to stay on with the Wings at this point in his career. He should be one of the guys saying "pay me less and sign the guys that will help put us over the top." If Holland went out and signed those guys that anyone would be excited to play with, he'd have that leverage. Right now, he doesn't, and it's his own fault.

I'm not saying Holland didn't have his time where you can attribute a lot of the team's success to him, but Bowman put the team together that contributed to the brunt of that playoff streak, and you could say his influence as well as the effects of our success under his leadership as a GM and/or coach in those years at the very least helped keep the momentum going. Again, not saying Holland doesn't deserve credit, but certainly not anything close to 22 years worth.

Not going to happen at this point. Their one and only hope at this point is that he spends the year on LTIR. But who cares? What makes anyone think that the same Holland that was dumb enough to sign him last summer would do much better with the cap room this summer? Holland hasn't done jack s*** to prove that he's able to bring in players that make this team even marginally better via free agency or trade in the four years that we actually started to feel the effects of the cap. Teams like Chicago find a way to seemingly overspend, regroup, and rebuild around their rock solid core. In the process, they've now won two Cups. Holland, meanwhile, has paid crap players too much, failed to sign or trade for anyone meaningful, lost his top three defensemen over the course of a little over a year while failing to add a player even close to equivalent to the least talented of the three defensemen lost. In the process, our best run came in spite of Holland's free agency efforts last summer when our kids from GR came up to do the work that our injured or sputtering "NHLers" were unable to do either due to injury or simply because they weren't very good at all. That said, what do you truly expect at this point? While it sounds almost incomprehensible even for Holland that he'd let Brunner and Flip walk without adding at least someone respectable enough to maybe be a second line center, I really wouldn't be shocked if he lost both guys and just signed Cleary. Everyone keeps saying Weiss, but I'll be very surprised if Holland pulls it off. Somehow, he'll end up being too expensive or something. It's always something, and then it's always "trades" or "next summer." I think I'd rather have Stan Bowman. He's won two Cups maneuvering through the same cap difficulties we've had if not worse, and he was smart enough to sign Hossa at a great cap hit when he had the chance. Plus, then we'd still have Scotty Bowman around. You can't deny the correlation between Bowman leaving the organization and our ability to sign or trade for NHLers that improve our team, nor Chicago's success since Bowman came into the fold and Stan took over as GM there. Obviously we can't say that it's an absolute explanation and Holland was just his puppet, but it's tough to deny that it hasn't played some part in said team's successes and struggles.