gcom007

At this point, I'd honestly rather not make the playoffs. In fact, I think I'd be okay if we lost the rest of the games. The lower we are in the standings, the better. We need higher draft picks more than we need a 1st round playoff exit right now.

I have heard it said that Danny plays the name on his knees many times, the last couple years, but didn't pay a ton of attention. I wasn't as focused on the team last year either. But this year, you know, I started watching more closely again and I've literally been blown away by the absurdity of how true these statements are. Cleary just looks terrible out there. If he's skating, he's skating slow. When he gets the puck, he's usually on his knees in a matter of seconds. It's just uncanny.

Am I the only one that thinks this team might actually be worse off getting Sammy and Bert back? Helm I'll gladly take back any day, but there's more to a team's success than individuals. I think chemistry has a lot to do with it, and I think some of the younger guys the last few years filling in have lead to better overall chemistry compared to the lack of chemistry the team often dealt with while playing with the healthy lineup. It remains to be seen what will happen when and if they come back, but given their age and what I've seen the last couple years, I'm definitely not convinced we'll really be a better team with them in the lineup, despite what logic might suggest.

I'd like to live in a world where no one would give Flip $5 million a year, but I'm well aware that we don't live in a sane world. Some team, hell, probably multiple teams, will gladly pony up $5 million for him.

I'm not really upset we didn't pick up any of the guys available given the costs and where this team is ultimately at in the big picture of things, but I'm definitely upset we didn't move Flip for something. The only way I saw keeping Flip was if we added the top-6 forward and top-pairing defenseman. At that point, you've got a bit more of a shot to make a racket in the playoffs. But we didn't land those guys, and we're all the further behind, and anyone who thinks buyouts are going to be the answer to our Top-6 forward and Top-pairing defenseman needs are utterly and completely delusional. This team will still likely make the playoffs, but we're not going anywhere. How Holland justified not getting a return for Flip given all he says about building through the draft is just so far beyond me, and why I ultimately question whether Holland has a clue as to what he's really aiming to do with this team at this point. When he spends the majority of his time talking about doing what's best for the future and he fails to make this move, it's just hard to have faith in him. If he ends up signing Flip to a $5 million deal this summer, I'll be done expecting him to ever do this job well again for this team. Holland will always get credit for what he did accomplish early on in his tenure as GM, but it by no means minimizes the fact that the very best thing one can objectively say about the tail end of his run is that he has been average. He hasn't been as horrible as some try to suggest, but he absolutely has not been great or anything close to it.

If Nill wasn't already so a big part of the management team, I might dismiss this thought in 2 seconds instead of instantly. But even if this was happening this off-season, Nill would just have a stronger voice in what was happening now, in which case, well, it is what it is? Or something?

Positive voice? I would give it to you if you said that the opinions you tend to express about the Wings tend to be optimistic, but your method of expressing your thoughts and opinions is anything but positive. To be completely honest, one of the biggest reasons I have a hard time taking most of your posts seriously is because I can't tell if you're truly just trying to be an optimistic fan or if you're someone who just likes to stir the pot. Maybe it's a fine line to you; maybe you're just jaded by the polarized hysteria that tends to rule most internet fan forums. You may be genuinely optimistic and content with the way this team is run and the general state of things, but you post like you're getting a kick out of beating people with a "2X4 of Optimism." And again, perhaps this happens because you're just jaded, and to be clear, I can certainly understand that and in this case, I think the state of being jaded by internet message forums is a very sane and utterly reasonable response. Whether your optimistic thoughts or opinions are valid and genuine or not, they rarely sound like they're coming from one who is a "positive voice." So if you're just trying to stir the pot, well, good job. You stir the pot very well. But if you actually are seeking to discuss your real thoughts and opinions in a manner that might cause those thoughts to be well-received by others, you need to rethink the way you're expressing yourself.

The guy was injured and still was descent. Datsyuk's been disappointing in the playoffs when injured too. People pissed and moaned about that before too. It's all silliness to me. These guys are some of the best players in the game. Fickle fan complaints about lack of production due to injury don't change that. Though to be fair and clear, no one's calling these guys 2002 Yzerman either, and it'd be almost inhuman to really draw the comparison between Yzerman's ability to play through pain and anyone else. But anyways, Hossa didn't put up the numbers some would like, but he didn't completely disappear either, again, despite dealing with injuries and playing alongside a team full of guys struggling with their own injuries. 2009 was a rough playoff run for this team; even Lidstrom missed games. When everyone around you is also struggling, it's all the harder to rise above your injury, which ultimately I think is why we lost that year. We were a better team, but we were way to beat up, and got as far as we did mostly thanks to strong play from Osgood, who undoubtedly would have snagged the Conn Smythe trophy had we won game 7.

This is why I could see the benefit of going for it now and leveraging your future a bit. We're going to be a competitive team most nights that we have Pavs and Z in the lineup, so while we have the benefit still of having these guys in the lineup, why not put the best team we can together right now and go for it. Strike while the iron's hot. After all, even if Dats stays, he's not getting any younger. Nor is Z, and his back is likely to slow him down faster than Datsyuk as well. People say we should be happy because we're a playoff team still and that's the new thing in the cap era, but we're a playoff team because we still have two of the best players in the world at the core of this team. Does anyone truly believe this team is even close to a playoff team if Datsyuk were to leave or Z has a long term injury, considering that even with these guys, most anyone with half a brain realizes we're overachieving this year with this lineup, not to mention the absurd injury streak (though I'm not convinced that the injuries haven't actually helped us...). But anyways, if we're a playoff team largely because we're still building around Dats and Z, there's certainly an argument to be made that we could move back to contender status a lot easier than some seem to think. It's more than one or two deals; we're not a "Shanahan" away and it's not 1997. But what one or two deals we make now or maybe could've made over the summer might have been the difference in deals made right now. What people keep failing to recognize is that a deal or two made last summer might've been the difference between leveraging a great deadline deal for someone like Iginla and not even being on Iginla's list of teams. Like it or not, we live in a "what have you done for me lately?" world, and it's becoming all the more true in the cap era of hockey. And while to us, that last Cup series which we barely lost doesn't seem so long ago, four teams have won the Cup since we last won it, and two of those four teams in particular keep finding ways to go for it in the Hawks and Pens. But you hear people talk about how the cap will get them and or about the Crosby/Malkin and Kane/Toews advantages, seemingly ignoring the fact that we still have a very real Dats and Z advantage. And the Pens and Hawks have had to make tough decisions and continually work around the cap, they keep finding a way to go for it. They are perceived as teams that are out there to win, and they have a core in place that attracts talent. In my mind, Holland really should've been doing this while he still had Lidstrom, as the team had far more potential to be a contender while #5 was still with us. We might've been one or two deals away at that point. The big difference between our team and theirs is that our management seems scared to go for it, continually putting off making moves citing either the cap, "leveraging the future," or waiting for the "much better free agent market next summer" that has been MIA since Holland first brought it up back in 2009 I believe. This year it's the cap decrease and the inevitable buyouts. Wonderful logic there, by the way. It's about as brilliant as those who think we can trade our scraps for stars. Everyone wants and expects us to buyout Sammy. What kind of players do you think other teams are going to be buying out?!?!? Overpaid, mid-level, aging clunkers. Depth level guys at best, and clearly, we have more than enough depth guys. Tangents... In any event, something always seems to come up that forces us to come up with the next "next year it makes way more sense to go shopping" scenario. Other teams make more dramatic moves to swipe the talent up, or guys sign with other teams, or it just boils down to Holland muttering something that's started sounding about as logical as "the rent is too damn high." At this point, given what has become of the situation and what seems to be our inability to land anyone noteworthy via trade or free agency, I'm not convinced it wouldn't be better to just sell off what we have, sink in the standings for a couple of years to get some decent picks, and stock up through the draft. Considering we've got a descent farm system and group of young guys ready to come up, we might be in a better position to trade picks and prospects for legit NHL talent when we have a plethora of it. This is all the more true if there's any truth to the rumors about Datsyuk heading back to Russia after next year, and if Holland doesn't really have a strong hint one way or the other, he's not doing his job. He needs to be dealing with that situation if it's a situation, one way or the other, much sooner rather than later. We already know he's not good at dealing with big player departures later. It meant one thing with Lidstrom when this team still had Dats and Z, but in this situation, with no one coming close to replacing holes left by Lidstrom, Rafalski, or Stuart and then you have to deal with losing Dats too, it might not mean find a replacement so much as stock up on as many draft picks as you can over the next few years.

It's absolutely true that we are not one or two solid moves from being a legit contender, but I tend to agree that that fact alone doesn't mean we shouldn't be moving towards something. By that I mean, if we're not a contender, and we're not going to land rentals on a bargain that would make us a 2nd round team, we better be trading guys like Flip for whatever we can get. If you want to do a song and dance about building your team through the draft and developing prospects, when you know that it's highly likely you're going to lose the guy for nothing, trade him now. We're not making a run this year, and the way Flip's playing lately, it wouldn't be the most horrid loss anyways. (And to be fair, this could still happen in the next 20 hours or so, I realize that, but it's looking unlikely.) This is what kills me lately about Holland and the whole situation. What he says and what he does regarding this team just seem beyond all sense and reason. You know he and everyone involved with this team knows they don't have the team to make a run unless a lot of flukey things happen and Howard turns it on and plays out of his mind. If other teams get battered and Howard gets hot, we've seen time and again that a seemingly weaker team can ride that wave a long ways in the playoffs. But you can't bet on that. So yeah, we're probably a playoff team, but we can't reasonably say we're contenders. If you're serious when you say we can't afford to leverage our future for the present, you need to move Flip by the trade deadline for whatever you can get and anyone else that a team might want that we can afford to lose. Some have suggested White. Maybe. We surely can afford to trade him for a later-round pick in 2014 if someone actually wants him, because lately he's watched games from the press box and he's not likely to be brought back. I'm fine that Holland didn't land Jagr. If cheaper, it would've been nice as it gives us more of a shot if Howard were to heat up in the playoffs, but he wasn't worth the price. I shrugged and thought nothing of it when Iginla was traded to the Pens. I had no real opinion about Bouwmeester; I saw upsides and downsides. All in all, I'm not thinking that it was a bad move to skip out on the bigger names available right now. But in doing that, you have to be honest about what it means to this team's immediate future, because your overachieving team didn't improve at all while all the legit contenders just got even better. If you're serious about how you believe you have to build a team in the cap era, you unload Flip at the very least right now. I keep running it through my head in different ways and trying to see both sides of it, but I see no other options. If you have the team we have now, and you basically are giving up on improving it at the deadline, you have to do what you can to move assets so you might be able to improve it in the future. That is, unless you truly don't know what you want to do with this team, which I fear more and more to be the case as time goes on.

I don't know if it's cynicism or realism at this point, I admit that, but I don't expect Holland to do anything at the deadline. Whether he should or shouldn't, I don't really know either. Tough call this year if you want to get honest about where this team is at. If you don't bring in someone worthwhile who will stick around after this season, you've almost gotta say, "what's the point?" I just wish Holland would make up his mind about what he wants to do with this team. If you're going to try to be good and really compete right now, you've got to trade draft picks and prospects and make a real investment in "right now." If you're going to forego "right now" for the sake of keeping prospects and draft picks, then start selling assets and trade for more draft picks and/or prospects. Let the team really sink for a year or two so we get a descent spot in the first round a couple of times. This shooting for the middle approach absolutely isn't sustainable. You lose Datsyuk and this is a very, very, very different team. And if you keep him, he nor Z and his back are getting any older, and I think it's safe to forget about Franzen being a force again. So if we just continue to stand pat with a middle of the road team, drafting in the middle of the first round at best, we're going to be left with a team full of these "depth players" Holland refers to with no legit talent to support. I just don't see how there's any way out other than getting insanely lucky again in the draft like we did with Dats and Z, but you can't count on that when you're building a team. So in my mind, he really needs to make a choice about what he wants this team to be. Trade some of your "future" to be truly competitive right now, or trade some of your "right now," even if it leads to struggling, so you can get busy really rebuilding from the ground up. I'm fine with either path really, as I think both are better than this middle ground he's walking that will likely lead to nowhere.

Remember when we beat the Avs 7-0 around this time a year and then they beat us in the playoffs and won the Cup? This game will be a turning point. (That may be the most sad and desperate statement I've ever made.)

Very good, if true. I had no problem waiting and think it's ridiculous that people make such a big deal out of the guy making a decision at his own damn pace, considering it's his own damn decision. Twitter is an interesting and important conceptual platform, but it has it's downsides too. People in general could always stand to be a little more patient and respectful ultimately.

Good. I'm not expecting the world from him as some undoubtedly are at this point, but it's never a bad thing to add another solid prospect without having to give up talent. And boo hoo! He took longer to announce than some fans wanted. Heaven forbid. Don't blame him for the circus when the circus was media and fan driven to begin with.

The longer this goes on, the more unlikely it is that he's signing in Detroit. But either way it goes, some of y'all need to get a grip. It's a big decision however you shake it. If you want on-demand entertainment, sign up for Netflix.

I don't think you really read what I wrote. Try again.

Wasn't McCollum already written off for the most part anyways? If Howard stays consistent, we'll be fine in goal for 5-6 years. We can afford to lose a prospect at goal, especially if it's McCollum. Mrazek would be a little harder to swallow, which is also why he'd likely be the guy they wanted. I didn't see McCollum mentioned anywhere either.

White was on their radar but he wasn't the goal. When they didn't land one of the stronger candidates on July 1, they started signing mid-level guys. One is riding the bench lately. The other, well, a lot of people wish he was riding the bench. And I'm sorry, I don't think Holland is trying hard enough if his remaining replacements for 2 of the 3 defensemen they lost, including two stars, are Ian White and Kyle Quincey. If you're as good of a GM as everyone says Ken Holland is, you don't lose those three guys in the course of one year and not bring in one guy who's even remotely close to the level of the weakest of the guys we lost. I don't buy it, and I don't get how people can bring up a guy who's now watching games from the press box in defense of Holland. And I liked the Ian White signing! And I didn't bring up Parise, Suter and Nash to say Holland screwed up. To be clear, because it seems like people just default to thinking that. I don't care about them. At all. I only brought them up because the guy said Holland plays everything close to the vest, but he really doesn't. He's been pretty damn open about who he's pursuing, I merely listed those as recent examples of that. Nothing more at all.

We've gotten a lot more bang for the buck on our cheap deals and high-end deals than our mid-level deals. That's largely because most of our mid-level guys have history with the team. Cleary and Sammy weren't guys we drafted, but there best years were here and they won Cups here. Then you throw in guys like Franzen, Flip, Hudler, and Ericsson. Obviously you can't just eliminate all of these guys, but Flip and Hudler in particular always seemed like bad decisions to me. Hudler just didn't have what it takes to be consistent and he was small and one-dimensional. Flip was a solid two-way guy who was ultimately unnecessary on a team with Dats and Z, and also likely our most valuable trade asset in years past. Some of the stuff we've had to pass on to keep these guys that we hope will end up looking like bargains is just unfortunate to say the least. And I knew the real deal on Franzen when that deal was signed. It was still at a high-point for the guy offensively, and I was as big of a fan as any and excited that we got him at such a low cap hit relative to his recent production, but there was a muted feeling to the excitement. I remember it distinctly. It was worry. And why not? With the long term of that deal and the problems Franzen had with injuries, his one-dimensional play and the fact that there was still potential for his offensive output could likely be a flash in the pan, you had to raise an eyebrow. Franzen was hot at that moment, but he was never a Datsyuk or Zetterberg. Those guys will contribute something valuable at every point in their careers. When Franzen's not scoring, he's useless. That was as true then as it is painfully true the last couple years.

Maybe it's not so much that you don't know what they're doing so much as they're not doing much? Holland has been pretty vocal when he's tried to do stuff. What's he supposed to say here? He talked to him on Wednesday, made a pitch, we have a lot of draw if he's at all drawn to a team for sentimental reasons. What else is there here? He talked to Parise and Suter. Offered them huge deals. He talked to Columbus about Nash (at least I think he said he did, it's fuzzy now...). When Lidstrom retired he said he'd be aggressive. When Rafalski retired, he said he was going to find a replacement. He says a lot. He says plenty. He just hasn't managed to do much more than talk over the last few years, and when you're unable to do much, he starts dropping all the lines we know too well at this point.

Yes, but it has little to do with Parise and Suter. That being said, had better decisions been made in the preceding years, I think we would've had those guys signed easily, maybe for less than Holland even ended up offering. We overpaid for unproven mid-level talent on the hope that it'd blossom in time, instead of underpaying legit stars (who you could afford to rig up with a long contract for a low cap hit because their declining years would be stronger than most mid-level guy's peaks) when we had the leverage. We were constantly caught scrambling in the off-season, failing to secure talent, left to chase scraps, and if you don't think that that has an impression on how outsiders view our team, you are absolutely kidding yourself. Had we made wiser moves and been more aggressive to replace top-end talent, we still would likely be "chasing scraps" due to cap issues, but the story would be phrasing it as "bargain hunting." And those "bargains" would end up looking a lot more like descent low to mid-level guys while playing alongside a top notch core. We're not a bottom of the barrel team, but we are no longer a top-tier team. It's not like we weren't one of the few remaining teams in the conversation for Suter and Parise, though from what was said after the fact, Parise seemed less interested in coming here than Suter. But I guess at the end of the day, all the more so if nothing happens between now and the deadline, not landing Suter and Parise certainly will be hanging in people's minds more in the future as more people continue to ponder this question.

What kills me about many Wings fans and Jagr in general is that had the guy been drafted here instead of Primeau, he'd likely be a hero and celebrated for all of his, umm, "eccentricities" and his hair and whatever else people whine about. He's always had his issues, but he's always been a phenomenal hockey player and has proven that he's still capable of being quite effective out there. And I haven't heard anything too negative about him lately, though I haven't followed him closely. If he was a relatively cheap option, he'd be a great pickup heading in to the playoffs. I highly, highly doubt that it will happen, but to just automatically write off the idea of it because of stuff that mostly happened over ten years ago just seems silly. Look at the system Jagr came up in too. He watched Mario Lemeiux run Scotty Bowman out of town. He saw a bunch of guys throw tantrums, then some were traded, and the team had to tighten up on D, but they won a Cup, and then they sent Bowman on his way. Things might have been different for Jagr had he come up with the Wings, who had a little bit better character in the locker room and management that was committed to Bowman's management, not to mention, Bowman in general shaping this guy. Jagr might've turned out more like Federov in terms of level of obnoxiousness and less like he did. But Paul Coffey no doubt would've been traded by Bowman again. No. Effing. Doubt.

More on topic, is anyone else a little concerned that he hasn't made a decision yet? At least so far as his chances of landing here are concerned? It just seems to me that given all that's been said about his view of the Wings, if this were going to happen, it likely wouldn't be dragging on like this. After all, whether he deserves it or whether he'll be truly up to the task or not, we're in a position to offer him an NHL role on a playoff team right now. I have a hard time thinking this would really be about playing time at this point. Sure, he'd get more on a truly bad team, but who wants to be on a truly bad team if even a descent version of the team you've loved all your life is interested in you and willing to offer you a spot in the lineup? I don't know, and I don't know much about DeKeyser in general, but the longer this goes on, the more likely it is that I think he'll sign elsewhere. As said, I don't know enough about what this guy would be able to do at the NHL level to say whether that's a big deal or not. Even if this guy comes in a does a descent job, it'll be hard for him to live up to the unwarranted hype. If he signs, I look forward to plenty "Bench DeKeyser" threads next year. It just seems inevitable unless he comes in and just takes over, which is highly unlikely to happen.

1) I was always an Osgood supporter and took plenty of crap for being one since the day he returned. It was a great use of cap money and Osgood was still plenty capable especially when it counted most, and he proved that in 2008 and 2009. I also have said numerous times in the past that Holland has a better handle on the goaltending situation than Babcock. I think Babcock is a great coach in most ways, but to this day I think he mismanages his goalies. Holland did a good job of stepping in on that when needed and has always brought in solid guys at great prices. 2) I had absolutely no issue whatsoever with the Datsyuk signing. Look it up. I was thrilled. I thought most were crazy who were against it. But to be fair, I also happened to know a few people who knew a good deal more about how VERY injured he was in the previous couple playoff runs before the signing, and his weaker performance in those years was what most fans were complaining about at the time. It never had to factor into my opinion, though I'm not sure it would've changed it had I not known that. 3 and 4) Those were great moves. Those were the kind of moves Holland should have been making the last 3-4 years if he didn't want to enter a rebuilding phase. Holland used to be bold, and while it didn't always pay off, it kept us in an elite status. If Holland had just rolled over and died when Schneider left and skipped out on making the move for Stuart, like he's basically done the last few years, we likely wouldn't have won the Cup in '08. And I doubt Hossa would have been calling Holland, not Holland calling Hossa, Hossa, literally, on the phone with his agent, taking over the situation himself, calling Holland and working out a deal. And we likely wouldn't have then made it to the Cup in '09. And so on and so forth. The real shame is, we very likely could've kept going things rolling had Holland made better moves starting in 2009. Like I said before, if you want to be elite in this day and age, half the battle is going to be keeping up appearances so when you have opportunities to add stars through trades or free agency, you have as much leverage as possible. Holland squandered our leverage through inaction. And if anyone thinks that we've been drafting our way towards ensuring that the next generation of this team is a playoff team, Ken Holland has a bridge to sell you. I'm not going to complain about Holland Pre-2009. The problems I saw started in 2009 and yes, they largely stem from the reality of the cap finally hitting, but the choices he made, and he's had plenty of choices, have not been good choices in my mind. That's my problem with him. Granted, I could argue against anyone complaining about him not signing Parise, Suter, DeKeyser (if we don't get him) or trading for Iginla too. What most Holland bashers ignore, and it's why I got involved on the matter in this thread earlier, is that the problem isn't what's been happening the last 3-4 months, it's what hasn't happened for the last 3-4 years.

Obviously, but that still doesn't really address my point. My point is we've seen three very important part of our team walk away over the course of a year and Holland has been unable to address even the smallest hole left by Stuart in a meaningful way. If we were to lose Datsyuk and Holland had this team heading into the following season with no meaningful addition for that loss, it'd be the fourth big hole in a short amount of time that wasn't addressed in a meaningful way. I am well aware of the realities of the cap era, but at what point would it be reasonable to suggest that this is a pattern, and a problematic one at that? Again, I'm not expecting the moon and stars here, not by a long shot. I know it's hard for many people to not turn things into black and white issues, but we dropped three of our four top defensemen in the course of one years time, including one who easily resides in the class of all-time great players at any position, and certainly among the handful of names one could drop for best defensemen in history. Is it really so unreasonable to think Holland couldn't have found a way to bring in a guy at least on the same level of quality as Stuart? I really don't think so, and that's what worries me, because we haven't even seen that, despite Holland saying numerous times that he'd like to strengthen things up. What I find really interesting about what some Holland-defenders say is that they almost seem to be suggesting at times that Holland's lack of moves is some sort of strategy, when in reality he's said himself that he wanted to make moves that he's consistently been unable to accomplish. And to be clear, I really don't care that we didn't get Parise and Suter, and to be frank, in some ways I think it might've been a blessing in disguise. I like Parise, but part of me worried that Suter would struggle here under the pressure. I'm not upset about it, and I don't blame Holland for it directly and I never have. What I blame Holland for is seemingly not knowing what he really wants to do with this team. He says he wants to bring in talent, but doesn't want to pay the price to get it. He talks about the importance of the draft, but won't play the sellers role to bring in drafts and let the team sink for a year or two to actually get a descent position in the draft. Again, he just seems content to float in the middle. We're far, far less likely to draft stars you can build your team around if we just keep floating in the middle. So if we're also unable to trade our assets for impact players or let go of home-grown talent to sign impact players, where does that leave us? What is there to build on? Sure, teams like Chicago and Pittsburgh will have their cap struggles and they'll have off years because of it, but they're not standing pat. They're going for it. That gives them quite an advantage that we used to have in that players who want to win want to play there. My point of bringing up Iginla wasn't to cry "boo hoo" because we didn't get him; I didn't expect to at all. My point was we weren't even on the list. If Iginla's going to get traded and he's got a list of 3-4 teams he'll waive his NTC for, and you're one of those teams, you have leverage. You're going to attract better talent and you're going to get a better deal than a lesser team. Like it or not, as important as the draft is, unless Holland goes into full-blown rebuild mode, selling off assets for picks, allowing the team to sink in the standings knowing you'll be rewarded come draft time, you've got to be able to bring in talent through trade or free agency. You're highly unlikely to be able to build a strong team around the picks you're going to get when you consistently fall in the middle to bottom end of the draft. Holland hasn't seemed to figure that out. Just look at Hossa situation again and consider that instead of having a legitimate star with amazing work ethic and outstanding two-way play for a great cap hit, you have a one-dimensional Franzen. Actually, maybe worse, we probably could have had Hossa and Franzen if he would've given up Flip, which would've yielded a solid return on the market. At the time he was still primarily viewed as a center...on a team that already had two of the best centers in the game. What ended up happening is he consistently failed to meet expectations sans one year, and ultimately ended up on the Wing anyways. Is there anyone (besides that one guy here who's obsessed with Flip) that would really want Flip over Hossa? Hossa is the kind of talent that attracts talent, makes the guys around him better, and sets a great example for young kids coming up with his hustle and strong two-way play. He was the real deal, not "potential." But end of the day, the decision ultimately had to do with the fact that Franzen and Flip and Hudler had been around longer. They were more a part of the "family." And don't cry "couldn't fit it under the cap!" It's tired and just not true. $3 million of Hossa's $5 million would be offset by sending Flip out for picks, and you pass on the inconsistent players like Hudler and Sammy by default, and end up with the guys you ended up with anyways because Hudler and Sammy went looking for a payday. We'd be tight for one year before things would open up again, and we'd come out of it with Lidstrom, Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Hossa as the cornerstones of this team, and in such a case, I think Lidstrom would still be around too, in all honesty. But instead, cue Holland's, "I was shocked and unprepared for what happened, but we'll explore other options" spiel to the press. What kills me is that some defenders have said that no one could've predicted that all our guys would walk. Umm, well, then what is Holland's job again? If he didn't know that he was that far off with the guys that left, he wasn't doing his job. Rafalski retires. We have cap space. We have assets. We have enough prospects to not be hoarding. Holland says he needs to replace Rafalski. He didn't say, "welp, we couldn't fit anything under the cap and it's the cap era and we're just happy to make the playoffs." He said, "we need to replace Rafalski." Nothing happened. Ditto for Lidstrom and Stuart, only far more pressing, and at this point mostly out of his control given the hand he dealt himself in seasons past. Floating down the middle is a waste of time. He needs to decide if he's going to really blow this team up and stock up the farm through the draft or he needs to figure out how to bring in high-level talent again. But in reality, he'll probably end up giving Flip $5 million a year this summer and I'll look at Hossa's cap hit again and hang my head.