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Everything posted by gcom007
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Of course he's not going to come out and say it, but I don't believe for a second he would've made this move if Howard was playing better. I think Howard's disenchanted response to questions on the matter says enough about that.
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You really think that he and his agent thought he would clear waivers? You really think they're surprised? The possibility that something like this could happen didn't sneak up on them after they signed the deal. Come on...
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Everyone's written off Osgood his entire career. No doubt his career is winding down, but he was playing well despite injury before going down. If he comes back without pain, it stands to reason that he'll be capable of maintaining a solid level of play. So long as he's healthy, I think there's a good chance he'll start in the playoffs if Jimmy doesn't get going, and we've seen what he can do there. I'd love for Howard to get more breaks, but I'd rather not have an outsider come in and screw with Howard's head even more. I think he'll get worn down a bit, but he'll get breaks here and there and will get a lot more rest once Osgood returns as Osgood will get more games than usual to get warm and see if he can get it going. With Osgood and Howard, I think it's far more likely that Jimmy will get signed again over the summer. If he loses the starting job to an outsider, he's gone. I think it'd be a mistake to let that happen. I think this year is going to be a wash for him, but it'll be good for his development. It'll make him tougher in the coming years. Sign he and Osgood up for 1 year each this summer, Osgood for dirt cheap and Howard at low number. Give him another chance to prove it after having a couple of years of ups and downs under his belt. I think we'll see good things.
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I'm fine with this. Totally comfortable with Howard and Osgood down the stretch.
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I don't think this has anything to do with Osgood in any way. He'll be in the same boat competing once he returns and if he wants to come back next season, it's essentially a given that he'll be signed as he'll be cheap and has shown he's already willing to take a back seat. If Howard were to end up the backup or worse yet, the 3rd guy out, simply put, he's gone come the off-season. And with some help from Babcock's goalie management (opinion), Howard played himself into this position. I don't think the alleged anti-Osgood slant came in to play, and I think Babcock has been better, though no perfect, this year in handling that angle. He's not stupid and you better believe he realized the mistake of letting a guy rot on the bench in the playoffs. It seems like Osgood and Babcock worked out there issues in general. Babcock's had plenty of praise for Osgood since training camp. But he's injured now and Howard is letting in 3-4 goals a game on a regular basis. That's the angle here. I'm not saying I like it and I still really would like to keep it to Osgood and Howard as I think Howard will be fine if given some more space and time to develop with Osgood carrying more weight. I wouldn't have made this move unless I knew something that we simply don't. We're 2nd in the West and finding ways to win games despite missing a lot of guys. We just need to hang in there until Osgood's back and then let the situation between he and Osgood play out to determine who will be the tentative playoff starter and the ready backup.
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I get why Holland would want to do it, I just think it sucks for Howard. I think he's going to be the one who gets the raw deal out of this, and I think it has a great deal to do with Babcock's handling of the goalie situation the last 2 years. As said, I really do get the benefits of it in the short run. Hell, I wouldn't be shocked if Nabokov simply is the best playoff option when it all shakes down this year. That's not the worst idea in the world. But I just think it's one that's likely to be screwing Howard in the long-run, and I think the situation could've been avoided if handled better from the start. This isn't some new idea I just cooked up. I worried and posted about this sort of thing happening last year. When it came to discussing Howard, everyone just assumed he'd be immune to the effects of the pressure and the "sophomore slump" that has befallen so many goalies in the past. We all now know that he's not, but we've forgotten or ignored what likely has caused it. And again, do you honestly think that Holland would have done this last year if the same injury situation presented itself? And by that I mean, if Howard was playing as well as he was last year. And now that he's not and it is happening, do you really think Howard's happy about it? Does he sound excited in those quotes? I don't think so. He's not stupid. It's one thing for Osgood to push him and even get a playoff nod ahead of him as there's a relationship and support system there that will trump a lot of the negativity that could come to the surface. It's two guys competing that understand their roles in the system. There's history there with Osgood as a Wing that demands respect, which would be a lot easier for Howard to deal with. It'd be more in line with the way everyone expected it to be for awhile before last season anyways. They'd both be brought back next year in similar roles and Howard would undoubtedly really be able to step up to the plate next year. But bringing in an outsider is a totally different story. The message isn't about two guys competing anymore. It's about Howard not being able to get the job done in a satisfactory manner. He knows it. It's not hard to read between the lines.
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I get that he took longer to come up through the minors than most, but it doesn't change the fact that the AHL game is VERY different from the NHL game especially come playoff time. I don't care how long you've been around, sans the incredibly rare Patrick Roy types, it takes a few years in this league to get your game together if you're going to be a goalie that's built to last, inside and out. And that's what I mean by Babcock fast-tracking him. Again, I recognize that he got a bit of a late start by NHL standards, but it doesn't change the fact that he likely just isn't ready to be an NHL starter. It's not that he doesn't have the skill; he's proven that he has more than enough. But the mental game just takes more time to develop and it's not something to rush. I think when you really look at Howard's shortcoming's thus far, they all boil down to cracking under pressure. You look at the playoffs last year and you look at this year when he's automatically deemed the starter and expected to be a top-tier goalie. What happens? He struggles. Last regular season, everything happened so fast and in the rush and excitement of it all, it's easy to shake off the notion of being THE starter because you're just out there playing and having fun. Then the playoffs hit and suddenly you realize that you really are THE starter and not only that, the game is harder and faster than ever. Struggles abound. Same goes for this year now that the rookie rush has worn off. I know a lot of people are of the mind that these guys need to put up or leave, but I just think that's really short-sighted, and I think there's a mountain of evidence to suggest that it is indeed short-sighted. I'd rather let a guy develop slow and learn to adjust to the pressure little by little. I think it's far more likely to work out long-run and I think that kind of development is what it takes to be able to be a playoff goalie. And I think Babcock put it on him too soon, and not only that, put it on him in far too intense of a fashion. I know everyone forgets so soon, but it was pretty clear last year no matter what angle you were coming from that Howard played too many games down the stretch. Whether you think it left him physically weakened, put too much pressure on him or didn't allow Osgood a chance to be ready to come in, it all boils down to Howard playing too much. Same goes for this year up until recently when the negative effects have really started to show. And sorry, I blame Babcock for that. It's an opinion, sure, but I believe that Howard could have played real well in a far more moderated role last season and this year, and I don't believe he'd be struggling so much now. I think he'd be fine and just out there playing (well) more like last year while Osgood is out. And then maybe next year he's ready to start really toying with the idea of being THE starter and ready to challenge to start in the playoffs. As of now, it's just a mess that'll likely get messier for Howard if Nabokov does indeed stick around. Remember Hasek? He didn't get a chance to really start until his 3rd season either. Guess how old he was in his rookie year? 25. It's impossible to say whether or not he absolutely would or would not have had the success he did if he had to be a starter in his rookie year, but at the very least, it certainly didn't hurt to have him taking a back seat for a bit to watch other guys and develop.
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Asked about the Nabokov signing, Howard said: "That's out of my hands. That's up to management and what they think. If he can help us, he can help us." Asked whether he thought Nabokov, 35, was signed as insurance or to push him, Howard said: "I don't need anyone to push me. I push myself. I work hard in practice every single day, and I just go out there and try to win games for the guys." Read more: Wings know Nabokov a long way from joining team | freep.com | Detroit Free Press http://www.freep.com/article/20110121/SPORTS05/101210437/Wings-know-Nabokov-a-long-way-from-joining-team#ixzz1BiEnTq2D This is why I called this a bulls*** move earlier. I don't think it's fair to Howard and I don't like the way he's been set up. I'm not angry at Howard for his play this year, though it's frustrating. And while I don't hate Babcock, you could say it angers me to consider the manner in which he's dealt with Howard. I've said all along that he's being set up to be run down and I didn't like it. I think he's got a load of potential and I feel like they've squandered it, and any way you shake it, to me this move feels like they've given up on Howard. And I don't like it one damn bit. Howard's the first guy to come through the organization that I think has the attitude and skill to be the long-term goalie since the last long-term goalie, Chris Osgood. I think it's total bulls*** that Babcock tried to fast track his development at the risk of him crashing, when he really should know better. Countless other young goalies who burn out fast tell the tale. As the pressure mounts and they're not mentally acclimated enough to the NHL game to deal with it, things fall apart. I don't think it was fair to Howard at all and I don't like it one bit. Whether he moves to another team or never returns to a consistent form, I think it will be an absolute shame. And the only animosity I will have towards anyone involved in the matter will be Mike Babcock.
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Seriously? Really? Did you even read what I wrote? Funny that I would hate him and not like this move because I think that it's very likely to box him out of Detroit. Brilliant logic as usual, Crymson.
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1. I think Osgood will be fine when he comes back. The fact that he was playing through the injury at all makes me think that he's going to come back strong. It might take him a few games to get sharp, but he's been looking good this year. 2. I like Jimmy and I have a lot of faith in his ability to develop into a real-deal starting goalie, but I don't think he's ready for the playoffs and I don't see how you can suggest he played "great" last year. Even the Osgood haters around here were calling for Osgood to go in! He had his moments where he came up big, but he had far too many moments where he utterly and completely dropped the ball. You don't become a playoff goalie overnight. I've maintained all along that it was just too much for him early on. If we're able to keep Nabokov, it's really nothing but a positive in the short run. I trust him more than Howard in the playoffs at this current point in time and if indeed Osgood isn't able to get things going, it'll be good to have Nabokov around. That said, I don't think this is good for Howard. He's struggled this year and this is hardly a vote of confidence in him. Do you think for a second that they would have made this move last year when he was playing great? Really? If he wasn't letting in 4 goals a game on a regular basis and getting pulled, do you really think Holland would make a move now? Even with the injuries, I highly doubt it. I really can't help but think this might be the first sign that Howard will not be returning next year. Think about this... If he can't beat out Nabokov for the starting role after struggling last playoffs and then struggling this season, they're not going to want to throw a lot of money at him. Same can be said if Osgood ends up starting in the playoffs, but if Nabokov starts and does well, they'll sign him and Osgood up before Howard and Osgood. Howard's not going to take a backup role for a million or less now, but Osgood will. One of two things has to happen for Howard to stick around: he either has to play great from here on out and steal the show and show some semblance of success in the playoffs, or Nabokov has to be terrible. And personally, I'd rather hang tight until Osgood comes back and let them fight it out and keep them both around next year at reasonable prices. Having three goalies around is never a good idea. Even if they're all decent guys, the simple "two net" thing will get frustrating real quick.
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I've met most of the Wings at one point or another over the years. Almost all have been really, really nice, though I've always been respectful. I'm not an autograph hound. Usually it's a situation where we're all at a bar to relax, and that's that to me. Some notables... Yzerman is even nicer than you'd imagine him to be in an ideal world. I've had more than a few encounters with him around the public and not, and he's always just been the nicest, most genuine guy. He definitely comes off as a bit shy, but overall he's just a very gracious, friendly guy. Total class act. Holmstrom is funny as hell when he's drunk. I've never known what he's saying as it's utterly unintelligible, but it's hysterical all the same. Luc Robitaille and his wife were by far some of the nicest celebrity-esque people I've met, and I've met a lot being in the music industry in particular. They were a lot of fun, incredibly down to earth and really generous, friendly people. The only truly negative experience I've ever had with a member of the Wings organization was with Hasek. I met him twice and both times he was an *******. The second time I met him, he was an ******* and he proved himself be a total sleeze ball as well. I truly respect the way he finished with the Wings and I think he was probably the greatest goalie in the game, but off the ice, the guy went above and beyond when it came to being an *******...unless you had big fake boobs and no brains. He LOVED those types...all of them...all at once...thoroughly.
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If this in any way turns into a situation where Nabokov is actually a Wing, what I'm hearing is that the Wings are not happy with Howard and he's unlikely to get much of a raise next year if even he returns at all. It would be a bit of a bulls*** move if you ask me. I know Jimmy hasn't been playing well this year, but I think that's largely due to mismanagement of his development over the last year. It just seems lame to set him up to fall apart and then to seemingly give up on him when he does indeed fall apart. It's one thing with Osgood as there's a relationship and support system installed already whereas it's clear that Nabokov would be coming in because we've got a mess on our hands right now. Even if it's just to try and push Howard, it just seems like a dumb move. Granted, who knows what's really going on, but something about this whole thing is fishy to me.
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Well...I guess we'll find out.
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via Twitter - McKenzie
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But you have to remember, there's a chance the Wings may not have any legitimate interest in him at all, so that could be a moot point. I'm not rules expert, but if he gets claimed and then another team tries to claim him, does he only have to clear through Detroit? Maybe Detroit's "assured" someone who actually wants him that they won't take him in exchange for some other "assurance." Yeah, probably not...another regretful trip down conspiracy lane.
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This is definitely the weirdest Wings signing in recent memory. That's all I know right now.
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This may be the only thing that makes sense to me. I would be utterly shocked if he's still a Wing on Saturday. SHOCKED. If you're excited, you're setting yourself up to be disappointed.
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This is just weird. I can't imagine that there's not more to this. Either Holland has reason to believe Nabokov will not get claimed or there's something else going on. I just can't imagine they would do this only to see him claimed Friday afternoon.
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Truth. He's pretty objective for someone with an apparent goalie slant. Definitely a reasonable poster from what I've seen.
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No way Nabokov clears waivers at the prices being tossed around. Everyone knows this. Translation: This isn't about a goalie. Well, at least not Nabokov. It'll be interesting to see what this is really about.
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Some things are obvious. And he has alluded numerous times to being frustrated in post-games. And if he can get out a "It sucks..." in post-game interviews when he's more often than not just reciting lines, imagine how he really must be feeling. Again, you can see it in his face as well. Mentally, he absolutely looks like a different goalie this year than he did last year.
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I certainly don't like it either; it's hardly ideal. But let's be clear: Joey Mac is not THE guy. He's THE backup to the backup. That's why he can go out there and play well; no pressure. Half the battle of being a starter is having the mental strength to handle the pressure, and he knows that in a million years, he will never be the starter on this team, so he can just go out and have fun and play. It'll work for awhile. But hell, I'm dreading all the jokers who will want to go all "Legace" with MacDonald before too long as well. I'm not at all looking to prop Joey Mac into something more than he is, but he's started off strong and we've got to role with it so long as Howard's out. With Howard being out, we have to look at the bright side, that being that it will give him some time away from the pressure. That'll help him relax. When he gets back, he'll just be excited to get out there and play again. He needs that more than anyone right now. That's why I'm not upset. I really have faith in this teams ability to stay in games and stay in the playoff hunt no matter what befalls them, so whatever happens in between only needs to set up what happens come playoff time. Osgood getting surgery to eliminate the issue and Howard getting a break to get his head straight are things that will benefit us in April more than them playing through the issues now only to have them utterly and completely implode once the real pinch comes around. If you think long term, this crap in January and February just isn't the end of the world. We just need to stay in the hunt and ensure that we're ready when it really matters.
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Do you have a better explanation for the utter implosion to his game that we've witnessed over the course of this season? Does he really look like a confident, poised goalie out there to you? He's taking every goal that's not even his fault way too hard and it's no doubt a big reason why he's been so prone to give up goals in 2's, 3's and 4's lately in just a period. Snowball effect. Those are signs of a sloppy mental game. Again, do you have a better explanation, or do you want to try to explain why he's not playing dramatically worse than he did last year, despite having even less help from the rest of the team last year?
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We'll worry about that when Joey goes down. Until then, he's been better than fine and while he'll no doubt show signs of his "career backup" status soon enough, all he has to do is not implode and we'll be fine down the stretch. Again, it's not like Howard's giving us any help at all these days. I truly believe time off could very well give him the mental break he needs to get his game back together, and we need that far more down the stretch than anything. Who cares if he comes back now and continues to struggle? What good is that for us?
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It'll be weeks at most, I wouldn't worry. And there's no point having him on the bench if he continues to play as he has. His game is falling apart and his head is a mess. He needs to get that straight or his career is going to be toast. I don't think anyone wants to see that.