gcom007

For the record, I still really like Howard and think he'll be fine long-run if we give him more time and space to develop with less pressure. I'm not down on him this year. I called this type of situation out again and again last year and blamed one person: Mike Babcock. He just seems more interested in pushing a starter role on Howard than letting him naturally grow into it. He's got the skill set to do it, but I really don't think he's been giving the space or time to develop more behind the scenes on his weaknesses. Tough to do when you're starting so many games and dealing with all that pressure both mental and physical. And because I know you're a big fan, please keep in mind that anytime I personally say that I want to see Osgood start more, it has nothing to do with disliking or disapproving of Howard. Completely the opposite. I want to see him have a career here because I really like the guy. I just think all young guys who are just getting going in this league need 2-3 years playing with less pressure behind a vet who can show them the ropes. I think a gradual move into the starting role is far more effective long-term than a violent, relentless shove. That is all.

Well said about the Ozzie-Howard thing. I don't know how you can really not really like both of these guys. I think Howard's got a ton of potential and I really hope he is the goalie of the future and successful at that. But that said, I think Osgood needs to be starting more and I think they need to get back to developing Howard instead of trying to force him into a starting role that he wasn't quite ready for yet. It's absolutely no knock on him as a goalie. We're really, really, really lucky to have a couple guys that aren't head cases, who are humble and team guys that seem to love playing here. It's a great situation. I just hope Babcock doesn't drive Jimmy into the ground this year. That's why I want to see a shift back to a real rotation and Osgood starting in the playoffs for Jimmy to observe so he can really be ready in 1-2 years. Patience is cool. It's why Osgood has got a lot of Cups and 400 wins. Jimmy's too talented and too good of a guy to waste by burning him out early.

I don't want to speculate too much, but I can't help but think that Ken Holland likely had more than a small say in the decision to start Osgood tonight. With Babcock announcing Howard the starter previously, I'd be surprised if he just up and changed his mind on his own. Maybe, but I really doubt it, and there's absolutely historical evidence to suggest that it's happened before. Regarding many of Outsiders claims, I'd like to chime in as someone who has heard a fair share of chatter over the years. What he's saying about guys talking is true, absolutely. Some talk more than others, some keep it more professional, some guys say things that will really surprise you. I've heard more about rather serious injuries that are kept quiet than anything though. I've heard gripes, and I believe others have too, but I do question how much is deeply-rooted and how much is standard in a player-coach relationship, much like many employee-boss relationships. Babcock is definitely not the "best friend" type of coach by a long shot. That's obvious. But I think the players do respect him even when they question him. They questioned Bowman too, but they absolutely respected him. As much as Babcock? I don't think so, but he's still the coach and they know that, even when they don't like that. So all that to say, while I do believe Outsider's heard "things," I would venture to guess the nature of it playing out on the ice is less extreme than suggested. Again, we're all human and we all get frustrated and we all sometimes don't think our bosses know what they're doing. And you know what? Our bosses our humans too and oftentimes they really don't know what they're doing. But these guys are pro's for a reason. It might not always be rosy, and there might be games where things are off because of clashes behind the scenes, but these guys know what it means to be a team when it counts. Don't doubt that.

I feel like the "rotation" has worn on Miller more than others as the last month or so has passed. He was earning his spot in the lineup while Hudler was slumping (can you call it that if he's never really not slumping?) yet he was still stuck in a rotation. You could tell it was frustrating him and I could see that throwing his game off a bit.

The bolded is key to me. I don't know what Babcock's thought process is, but it makes little sense to me at all and given Howard's struggles in the playoffs last year and his continually mounting struggles this year, I'm not prone to think Babcock really knows what he's doing when dealing with the goalies. He seems quite good thus far at making a lot of wrong decisions. Even in '09 he wanted to go with Conklin in the playoffs until Holland stepped in and took over the goalie situation, eventually leading to Osgood getting back on track and having an outstanding playoff run. And really, what's the worst that would happen if Osgood did get going and take over heading into the playoffs? His last two playoff runs worked out pretty well for everyone...

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=548211 This is the kind of thing that I've worried about since last season. While Howard did an outstanding job of stopping the puck last regular season, he displayed a fair amount of rather glaring weaknesses as well. It makes me think that the more focused attack in the playoffs by other teams and the increasing struggles this year are no coincidence. Howard plays a ton and with rather obvious weaknesses and tendencies, guys are likely figuring out how to more easily score on him. In any event, his December stats are pretty brutal and they weren't any better the second half of November. He really didn't need this game tonight to get 2011 off on the right note. However, I'm slowly coming back to a similar frustration to one from last year, and it's directed at Babcock. I don't think Jimmy played a terrible game tonight; some weird bounces were really the story. But considering Howard's been on a steady decline since mid-November while showing little sign of the decline really ending, why is he continuing to get starts? Wait, let me rephrase that. Why is Babcock seemingly doing all he can to ensure that Jimmy Howard becomes just another one of the countless one-year wonder goalies who gets lost in the sophomore season slump? Sure, he's winning, but at what cost? He looks less and less confident every game and more and more frustrated and frazzled. This just doesn't make sense to me. If you've got a guy with the talent to be a real-deal pro for awhile, why do all you can to burn him out in 2 seasons? I just don't get it, and as I think about it, I truly am infinitely more frustrated by Babcock's decisions than Howard's play. I certainly want to see Howard improve, but he's not being given the best chance to allow that to happen. Well, either that or he really was just a one-season wonder. Maybe 5 seasons in Grand Rapids and shaky play there wasn't a fluke after all...it's a frustrating situation either way.

My current lines based on the current roster of healthy players is more to demonstrate cap than ideas for lines. I should've noted that. I agree with your assessment completely of what the actual lines ought to look like. I would absolutely prefer Miller over Draper (and Abs over Draper on "dream" lines). Again, with my lines being more focused on demonstrating the cap spread (my unspoken intention), I included Draper because there's nothing we can do about his $1.5 million hit. He retires, it's on the books. He sits, it's on the books. I was just trying to show what was possible financially even with less than ideal contracts still hanging around. I know Hossa-Dats or Hossa-Z would be a step down from Dats-Z, but I'm going more for balance here in splitting them up. While it wouldn't be as good as Dats-Z, it's still better than most. Hossa is strong enough in the defensive end that in the right circumstances, I think he could get himself nominated for a Selke. While adding Hudler in could potentially yield better offensive results, I still like the idea of going with guys that are a bit more proven and/or cheap. These mid-level earners are far too often disappointing on the Wings because we're able to find guys that make half as much who are often better assets to the team. I'd rather give Eaves an opportunity to do more as I think he has a lot of potential and he's a more balanced player who can solidify a line at both ends of the ice. Consider this... Eaves is 16th on the team in total time on ice. He's 17th on the team in even strength time on ice. He's 20th on the team in power play time on ice. He's 4th on the team in short-handed time on ice. And despite all of this, he's 5th on the team in average goals per game, behind only Cleary, Franzen, Datsyuk and Zetterberg. He's tied for 5th on the team in goals and is 1 ahead of Flip despite playing in 7 less games. Oh yeah, Flip's had nearly 50x the amount of power play time as Eaves too. Oh, and to be clear, Flip's played 17 minutes short-handed while Eaves has played 94 minutes short-handed. I know this spun off of a Hudler comment, and while it applies to Hudler even more, no one's really arguing that hasn't been an epic disappointment this year. Again, Eaves cap hit is literally 25% of Flip's cap hit. Just sayin'...

Franzen's cap hit is less than a million more than Flip's and by the end of the year he'll likely be leading our team in goals scored by a healthy margin. Not only that, he'll likely have almost as many goals as Flip has points if both stay healthy. Plus, so long as he's healthy in the playoffs, he's a big game player. And really, you can't compare his streaks or Zetterbergs or Dats or whoever you're thinking as they're simply rarely as notable even proportionally. Last year was an off year for nearly everyone on this team so you really can't use that as a measure. Between losing so many guys all at once in the off-season and then losing so many to injuries, there just was little chance for this team to be successful and get something going. Franzen never came back 100% either. Zetterberg may underachieve offensively at times, but he still brings so much to the team and has a tendency of finishing on a strong note. But with these guys, at worst there's still a fairly steady stream of offense throughout the season. Oh, and I hope you're just referring to offense and not Lids or Raffi... With Flip though, he's never putting up big numbers by seasons end to compensate for any hint of streaky play that may exist. Look at last year towards the end of the season. In 3 games in a row, he puts up 4 goals and 8 points. The 5 games prior to that he musters up 1 assist while in the 9 games after that he's only able to add 1 assist. Prior to that rather bizarre ending to the season, he was playing fairly consistently compared to his previous seasons. But it's always something with him. He has a solid year when healthy and then has a 3 game burst among 14 games of pure slump despite the team around him playing better than they had at any point in the season. And the streaky comments wouldn't mean as much if the basis for the idea that he can put up higher offensive numbers weren't based on streaky periods of play in which he's hot for a few games before and after being cold, cold and cold...he's yet to have a full season in which he's demonstrated that he can consistently produce. Every other guy making more money than him has had the end of season point totals to take away from the "streaky" comments. He's still never had more than 40 points and he's yet to put in a full season of at least semi-consistent offensive play. Until he delivers a season that allows you to change the nature of what is currently an absolute fact, you are going to have a hard time logically defending the idea of him being a consistent offensive player.

2008 was a complete team effort from goalie, offense and defense. Ozzie had what, a 1.5ish GAA??? We didn't need to score many goals to win. Cleary was terrible and Franzen was out down the stretch with that concussion. It limited our options a bit. But we won this year because every part generally worked. 2009 was a disaster that somehow became a masterpiece despite a game 7 Finals loss. I thought it was a better run because we never should've gone as far as we did with all the injuries we had. Datsyuk didn't play in 6 or 7 games and scored 1 goal. He was beat up bad, as was Hossa. They weren't capable of playing up to their ability and at that point, there's no way Datsyuk can carry a line on his own. That's the problem. Aside from our 5-0 blowout in Game 5, we only scored 6 goals in the last 5 games. We ended struggling with Dats and Z together. Doesn't seem like that's our "best" either, nor a good supporting example. After all, with as many injuries as we had, we never should've gone as far as we did. That was mostly on Osgood who was a win away from a Conn Smythe for playing even better than he did in 2008 with far less help. And in 2010, when were we ever at our "best" in the playoffs? I seem to remember us getting our asses kicked by San Jose in the 2nd round. So how does that work? Think of our top 2 scoring lines being centered by Dats and Z, each with a sniper like Hossa/Franzen as well as another solid winger like Cleary/Hudler (pre-Russia)/Holmstrom/Bertuzzi. Other teams are going to have a hell of a time playing against those lines. Then you throw in a 3rd line centered by a Modano type with probably someone like Bertuzzi (Huds can sign elsewhere in my world) and maybe an Eaves/Miller in the mix. Solid, cheap, capable. Then you've got a great checking line with the Eaves/Miller/Draper/Helm/Abs etc...whoever would be around in such a world. Loose idea of current (if healthy) lines: Holmstrom Datsyuk Zetterberg - $14-15 million Cleary Filppula Franzen - $10 million Hudler Modano Bertuzzi - $7 million Draper Helm Eaves - $3 million Total Salary - $34-35 million or so... Loose idea of lines and salaries of what I'd rather see: Holmstrom Datsyuk Hossa - $13-14 million Cleary Zetterberg Franzen - $13 million Eaves Modano Bertuzzi - $3-4 million Draper Helm Miller - $3 million Total Salary - $32-34 million or so... I like those lines better and there'd still probably be a bit of money to spend up if we would've traded Flip and not signed Hudler. Not only do I feel that there's going to be more balance on the top 2 lines, I also feel like each line is going to be better defensively. The top two lines would be as strong on defense as offense while the 3rd line would benefit from Eaves moving up as he not only can score, he's also a solid guy at both ends of the ice. Plus, the 3rd line would have less pressure on them after teams chase around our top 2 lines. Our checking line is always strong for a checking line and Eaves and Miller would never have to sit out games...WHICH IS A CRIME!!!!!!!!! I just see things being a lot more balanced with our inconsistent, over-priced mid-level players out of the picture. Spend a little extra to keep a guy like Hossa around who's willing to buy into the system on and off the ice and let Kenny and the scouts do the brilliant work they do in bringing in the overlooked and the forgotten vets on the cheap to round out a great offensive group. I think we score more goals and prevent more goals with those lines, and I think we skip unnecessary line-shuffling that occurs when you're waiting on your inconsistent guys to decide to produce. Know where the brunt of your scoring comes from. Know where your support scoring comes from, Never compromise on defense. Everybody has a defined role and a spot that suits them. Simple.

While I definitely think Osgood's been real good since returning and Howard's been roughing it in inconsistency land for nearly two months now, I don't think Howard was the weak link tonight. Sure, he wasn't great and we went down 3-0, but he's been worse in other games recently than he was in this one. This felt flukier to me than anything. But none the less, I agree that Osgood should be starting more. He's playing better lately while Jimmy is still struggling. Jimmy's young, I'm not surprised. If not for Osgood's injuries last year and struggles to get back going, Osgood would still be considered the starter. He was coming off a Conn-Smythe worthy playoff run after all. If he can get going and be the guy in the playoffs, I think it could be the best thing for the team and for Howard. We all know that when Osgood's on his game and heading into the playoffs, he's literally capable of being among if not the very best playoff goalies out there. And now that it's becoming more and more clear that Howard still has things to learn, I don't think there could be anything better for his development than to see a great playoff goalie doing his thing. Howard will learn a lot from it and shed some of that pressure that can be crippling early on in your career. I've thought since last year that the best thing for Howard to do in his first 2-3 seasons is to focus on learning what it takes to be the starter. I figured he'd play 20-30 last year, more of a split this year and then next year begin to take over more as the starter with Osgood than transitioning into a backup/support role. I really think the whole starter thing came to early and I'd be fine with getting it back on track. Pushing Howard through this thus far hasn't been fruitful for him or the Wings. He's too talented to waste so I really hope they give him a chance to relax and get focused on learning without as much pressure, as I do firmly believe that the pressure was too much for him in the post-season and it's carried into this year and continued to spiral downwards. Better to nip it early than burn out. He's still got plenty of reasons to be confident. He hasn't been horrible at all. The NHL is just a rough league to be a goalie in and the second year can really spin you around and wear you down.

I know, I just don't like the message that sends to Howard after a rough stretch now for awhile when he's obviously frustrated. You can see it in his face. I've been a proponent of Osgood getting more starts, but I question Howard getting pulled. As I've been saying since last year, Howard's young and still learning. I think we expect way too much out of him and I just hope he doesn't turn into another one season wonder. Osgood benefited early in his career from having a veteran play a lot and take the lead in the playoffs. They're both naturally cool, but even the cool goalies can lose track of their heads early in their career. I just don't really like the way they've dealt with Howard or the goaltending in general the last couple years. Both guys are getting the shaft in different ways.

I'll give Flip a ton of credit for making a great play and a great shot there. Real nice. However, I don't take back anything I said in the "Should Flip be traded" thread. And does Flip have 1 goal, 2 goals or 0 goals now in this game...?

Why the hell is Osgood in? This game is not 3-0 because of Howard.

Generally, I'd agree with you, but tonight, I'm having fun.

The apostrophe is your friend: http://www.grammarbo...ion/apostro.asp And punctuation...

Mental mistake? I don't know Mickey. Howard's just not good at handling the puck yet. That kind of stuff is nothing new for him and he'll improve as the years go on. I really think that's one part of the game where any goalie stands to improve a lot if they stay in the league awhile.

He's here to use words incorrectly and demonstrate the raw power of really bad grammar. (I am a hypocrite, but does he not deserve it...just a smidge?)

Want a medal? And if you had truly used the term "bandwagon" correctly, I would not do this. However... "THEY'RE" The apostrophe is your friend: http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/apostro.asp

Bandwagon fans are very different from impatient, irrational, spoiled, petty fans. Come on guys, diction. And s***, I guess we're kinda screwed now. Another 3 GAA game for Howard, though not really his fault yet. Only thing that sucks about it still though is that you can tell it's frustrating him more and more lately and that pressure doesn't seem to be translating to improvement. The defense really needs to show up in his next start and give him a chance to have a great game.

Could be 3-0 a few minutes ago if that huge rebound into the slot had actually been shot into the wide open left side of the net. We got lucky there. Games over if that goes in. We're still in this one.

We got a great lucky bounce there off of a ginormous rebound. Should've been 3-0. (Not all is against us...)

No. Just weird bounces or this is a 0-0 game.

Still plenty of time in this one. All we need is a goal to get going. 2-0 is nothing we can't overcome if we just keep playing hard. I think we'll be okay so long as the Flyers don't get another one real quick here.

I don't think anyone's blaming the goalies today.

Damn...Howard could do nothing on the shot but I would've liked to have seen him do more to freeze that puck when he had the chance. Seemed like a moment that would've been good to scramble to roll onto the puck if you're already down and out of position and essentially right over it.