gcom007

Damn, these games have been exciting. Calling Hawks in 5 at this point. Close games, and I don't think there will be a sweep, but I do think Chicago will get one in Philly, and the United Center will EXPLODE in game 5. If they can't win with that momentum, then, ummm, maybe Flyers in 7...

A few thoughts... Stan Bowman has said on numerous occasions that Hossa's role on this team is to be the guy who leads the way towards a strong two-way game. He's the guy who out-hustles everyone back to help on D and that's what Bowman wants out of him. He's got tons of scoring depth, but those guys needed to learn from another scorer how to play a complete game and Hossa's greatly helped in that area. He seems to be raising his scoring game thus far in the Stanley Cup Finals. 2 assists and a generally great performance in game 1 and the first goal in game 2...tough to say the guy isn't answering the call when it counts more than ever this year. And sure, his scoring's been down, but he's played a different role on this team and no one watching and critiquing these games has been short of praise for Hossa's overall play. It's looking pretty likely that the Hawks are about to go up 2-0 on the Flyers in the Finals, and you've then got to think that there chances of winning are pretty damn likely. It's tough to rip on the guy when he's playing for Stanley Cup right now and we've been done for awhile. Franzen's outscored him, sure, thanks primarily to a great single game effort. He was non-existent a great deal of the time in the playoffs and unlike Hossa, when Franzen's not scoring, he might as well not be on the ice. Hossa's going to be great whenever he's on the ice, in every situation you can throw him into. He can score. He can be a playmaker. He's an excellent 2-way player. He never takes a shift off and he out-hustles everyone on the ice. He's a complete player. I have no doubt that Hossa's head has hindered his offensive performance thus far in the playoffs after 3 years of questions and supposed "curses." It's got to bother him. But he's come into the Finals to win and again, he's answering the call thus far. If they win it this year, thus silencing Hossa's critics and removing the "curse" and the pressure, watch out. He'll be better and better in the coming years when he's able to just get out there and play his game. And I still wish he was a Wing...

I'm for it as I imagine the price will be right and most haters seem to have no perspective that takes into account his fairly cheap salary. I think he's a good fit on this team, and I think it's really impressive that the guy came in and played a full 82 games. I mean, when we heard he got signed last summer, how many of us who liked the deal would've been happy if he played 60 games!? This year ought to give him more confidence as he showed that he's still got the touch. Some continuity could help that. He'll never be the player he was, but to think he couldn't contribute is absurd, especially given what is likely to be his price. And I'll say it again, I for one hope we win a Cup for him, and give him his ultimate redemption before his career is up.

I don't know if I'd go so far as to say that Howard lost all the games, but a goalie going to the Cup finals absolutely does not give up as many back to back goals as Howard did against San Jose. We had brutal first periods where sure, maybe the defense wasn't outstanding either, but it's not like San Jose was scoring brilliant goals. Howard wasn't making saves that even the average Howard was making in the regular season. Again, I'm not talking 50-whatever save night against LA way back when...I'm talking average, run-of-the-mill, regular-season Jimmy Howard would've stopped a lot of those those shots that turned into goals just moments apart. In the first period, or at the end of periods, that's just brutal. His timing for giving up goals was horrid, and rarely did he make the saves necessary to get the TEAM through a rough patch. Again, I'm not saying he was horrid at all, but it's absurd to suggest that he was anything more than average, if not utterly sub-par, the majority of the time in the playoffs. I'm not a Howard-hater, and I'm all for giving him a chance, but he didn't come even close to playing at a level that resembled his regular season performances on a consistent basis. That's just as true against San Jose as it was against Phoenix. I don't care what name is on the back of the jersey, unless you're in the 1980's and playing for the Oiler's, you can't expect to win in the playoffs when you give up 4 goals a game the majority of the time. It's absolutely absurd to suggest otherwise, and I bet I could pull up quotes from even you in years past saying that very thing if I really felt lead to search. We can defend Jimmy Howard all we want, and we should in many ways if people want to just write him off already, but to suggest that he wasn't the worst playoff goalie we've had by far since Manny Legace is just not realistic at all. Hell, I think Hasek probably got pulled for less than Howard got away with this year when you really go back and look at it objectively. And sorry, while I readily admit that I have no objective evidence from this regular season to support my stance on this, I still fully believe Osgood would've found a way to win games and get us into the playoffs. I mean, the guy's on the brink of 400 and is kinda, maybe, just a little bit maybe even, coming off of two Stanley Cup Finals appearances, the losing one being even more personally noteworthy than the winning one. I aim to take nothing away from Howard unlike some, but I still believe that Osgood could have played a far more active role in getting us into the playoffs, and I firmly believe that we'd be in it still if Osgood was starting. I know, lack of evidence from this season. Yeah, it's a *****. But all Howard's got is this season. How many Cup rings does Osgood have? And in what game, and in what position did he finish the last two seasons? And how many wins does he have again? I guess a long, successful career just means a bit more to some than others...

I think I give Howard a bit more credit than you, or at least more grace (ROOKIE!), but I agree with the perspective on Osgood. The reality of the situation has become so convoluted at this point though that it hardly matters. People seem to forget that in October when Osgood was starting the majority of the time, and we were actually healthy, we were playing HORRENDOUSLY BAD team hockey, and in many games that turned into losses, Osgood was about the only bright spot we had. I think it was against Phoenix or Colorado towards the end of October, we ended up losing in overtime, and good old Mickey Redmond went on one of his pissed off rants about how Osgood deserves so much better the way he's been playing, the team isn't giving him any help at all, game after game they're just giving the other team all the opportunities in the world and the only reason why they're in these games at all is because of Osgood. I remember that game in particular, in the last 10 minutes, Osgood made brilliant save after brilliant save because the team defense was absolutely non-existent, but he eventually surrendered the tying goal, and we lost quickly in overtime, again, because no one could tell if the team just went back to the bench when we were supposed to be playing defense. It was horrid, like much of October when Osgood was carrying the majority of the load. It's only when guys started getting injured and we had no other choice but to tighten up the D or get obliterated if we had Hasek and Roy in net at the same time while in their prime! And around that time is when Osgood got sick and sat out for a week. The rest of the team tightens up, maybe doubly so because of the then shaky backup Howard having to be the starter for a bit. Next thing you know, Howard's putting up great numbers, partially because the defense finally came into existence, but certainly because he got his game going to. You can't take anything away from how well Howard played in the regular season, faults and all. He may've given up a lot of rebounds, but the guy found a way to stop most of them too. Don't forget that. But none the less, did Osgood really get a shot to get anything going after being down with the flu? No, not really at all. And I've said all along that it was a mistake, and that we'd be sorry down the stretch. And I want to stress, I say this not to take anything away from Howard as a goalie nor what he accomplished this season, but I would've done what is necessary to get Osgood ready to be the playoff starter, and I think if Osgood was starting, right now, it'd be a 2-1 series (anyone's bet on who'd be up 2-1, but I think it'd be 2-1 after 3 games...) against Chicago. I don't think Howard played horrifically in the playoffs at all, but Osgood wouldn't have had to play nearly as well as he did the last two years to have gone up 3-0 against San Jose, and we would've won. I really have no doubt about that. You, "any give poster," don't have to agree with me, but it's what I believe and I would hope that you would show me the respect of at least considering that I've put some logical thought into it. You cannot ignore what Osgood was able to do the last two playoff runs, and you'd be a fool to think that he really just "lost it" in a matter of months. Countless people were saying the same thing in 2009, and I was one of only a handful of people GUARANTEEING that Osgood would show up and saying "QUOTE ME ON IT IN JUNE" the whole year. No one loses so much, so fast. He might not have been able to equal his 2009 performance which all factors considered was superior even to his 2008 Cup-winning performance, but like I said, he wouldn't have had to play nearly as well to have beaten San Jose with our team scoring 3 goals a game in the first 3 games. In my mind, it's not about Chris Osgood being wildly better than Jimmy Howard. It's not about Chris Osgood being a great, under-appreciated goalie. It's not about Jimmy Howard being a terrible goalie who gives up way too many huge rebounds while too often getting caught out of position, not to mention his poor puck-handling skills in general (ROOKIE!!!!!!). It's just this: in the playoffs, I'll go with the veteran over the rookie 99.99999999999% of the time for good reason. I don't think it was even fair to Howard to put this kind of pressure on him in his rookie year. He had a GREAT rookie year. Why try to put a damper on it with the playoffs when you've got a veteran goalie on the roster as well? Oh yeah, that veteran has 3 Stanley Cup rings. Oh yeah, that veteran was practically the Conn Smythe-winner last year, carrying a battered team to a game 7 Stanley Cup finals matchup in which we lost by 1 goal. Oh yeah, the year before that, that veteran won the Stanley Cup. I'm sorry, but I don't care how great Howard played in the regular season, nor how poorly Osgood (maybe...) played in the regular season. When it comes to the playoffs, you'd be wise to go with the veteran. Again, if we had done that this year, we probably would still be in the hunt. Osgood would have found a way to get going in the regular season with the playoffs on the line. Make no mistake of that; don't kid yourselves for a second on it. Please, just remember where Osgood has been in the regular season and playoffs the last couple years and get objective for just a few seconds. Ugh, whatever...I'm tired...long week...I'm not pissed at Howard, at all, and I'm more than willing to give him a chance in the next few years, but I think Babcock screwed up royally this year, and I think we'd still be in it with Osgood in goal. It's as simple as that. Nothing against Howard at all; it's just that in the playoffs, there's so much to be said for going with the veteran. Let the rookie watch; let the rookie learn. Then, in his time, the rookie will be ready to face the challenge head on as opposed to floundering through things as Howard unfortunately had to this year. I don't blame him, nor have I ever. That one's on Babcock.

He didn't have what it takes this year. He didn't lose us the series, but he really didn't give us any help in winning either too much of the time. His regular season was obviously great though, and one has to remember he's a rookie. That's the key, and it could be a good or a bad thing. In one hand, you could say that it's tough for a rookie to make it happen in the playoffs as it's his first go-around at everything at the NHL level. This would obviously be ideal. In the other hand though, there have been a lot of goalies who had great regular seasons followed by underwhelming playoff performances and mediocre second seasons. Goalie is one of the strangest spots on the team as physical and technical capabilities can be all there, but the head can screw it all over in the blink of an eye. So what's the only reasonable answer to the question of whether Jimmy Howard has what it takes to be a premier, championship-caliber goalie? Time will tell. He's got a lot of strengths and some noteworthy weaknesses. He had a slow developmental crawl to the NHL, but he proved a lot last year. He was sub-par at best the majority of the time in the playoffs, but after his lowest points, he battled back hard, played strong and at a level at which he could go out with his head up. So again, time will tell. Anyone too quick to give him all the praise in the world is just as likely to be as wrong as anyone who's too quick to not give him a chance to mature at the NHL level. If Osgood gives him no battle for playing time and Howard is without a doubt the playoff guy down the stretch, next year will be very telling. If Osgood turns in a great regular season and battles for the starting job, it'll be the year after when Osgood's most likely gone and Howard's the "veteran" that will be telling. Until then, it's all speculation, and with goalies, so much can change so quickly, for the good and for the bad. But what's the bottom line in all this? Well, that's simple: does he deserve a chance? Does he deserve our support? Has he earned that? Absolutely.

Why not? His career is an embarrassment. He's been treated like a legend despite never playing like one when it's mattered most. He's beyond pampered. Ridiculous contract...gets mentioned among the elite goalies in the world...captain of the team...why? Really, why? I mean, just imagine if this guy was in Detroit in the same situation. People think we've been hard on Osgood, Osgood would look pampered by the fans in comparison to the ridicule Luongo would face. And sadly, for years there have been people here saying we need to do all we can to sign him... :ranting:

If he actually plays Hudler consistently, and as a top 6 guy, he definitely has the potential to hit 70 points if not more. The guy nearly got 60 with minimal minutes last year and he's had those long droughts when he was all nervous about getting traded the last couple years. If Babcock gives him a real opportunity and he makes the most of it from the get go, he won't have to worry about being traded this time around and again, just more minutes and time with better guys will only lead to good things. The guy knows how to put up points. He'll likely cause a good deal of stress in our end, but hey, sometimes you've got to give some to get some. It's really up to him to make the most of the opportunity. He's got the skills, and he's going to get a shot. If he can pony up, he'll have a very, very good offensive season.

We've already been through the Leino thing before and discussed how you took that statement out of context and utterly and completely missed the fact that it was a sarcastic jab at you Flip slappy's made in jest. I mean, I spent the majority of the post saying that people had unrealistic expectations of Leino and that he wasn't likely to perform nearly as well in his true rookie year as he did in his call ups. Of course, according to the masses, I was wrong then, but then the regular season came around and we all know how that went. And then there's you, still holding on to a sarcastic comment as if I meant it! Pull up the post if you must. Please. As far as Flip, I've said multiple times that he had a solid 1st round and a solid performance down the stretch in the regular season. But again, injured or not, for all intents and purposes he disappeared from the score sheet in the 2nd round. And what about the end of the season? He was basically non-existent the last 9-10 games of the regular season. Here, I just looked it up: 1 assist for 1 point in his last 9 games of the regular season after putting up 8 points in the previous 3 games. And digging into that more... In those 3 games he put up 4 of his 11 goals for the season, 4/11=36% of his total goals over 3 games And in those 3 games he put up 8 of his 34 points on the season, 8/34=24% of his total points over 3 games Great 3 game effort, followed by a 9 game run with 1 assist to show for it on the score sheet To me, those look like stats one would expect from a streaky offensive player. So why is it hard for me to imagine that he'd put up 60-70 points if healthy all year? Because for as many 3-4 game hot streaks he's had in his career, he's had 3, 4, 5 game streaks (or even more) of putting next to nothing up. And all of this occurs despite the fact that he gets more ice time than most, as well as power play time and a fair amount of time with top line players. So again, I say we'll wait and see how it goes over a whole season when he's healthy. Considering his propensity for having a few big games and then disappearing for awhile, I think he's still likely to max out at around 50 points. It takes a lot of consistency to put up 60-70 points and Flip has yet to prove that he's capable of being a consistent scoring threat. And I really don't know why this bothers you so much. He's a great defensive player and to able to chip in 40-50 points along with the defensive skill set is a pretty damn solid combination. He doesn't need to be Dats or Z to be a solid player. On just about any other team he's going to be a top 6 guy without a second thought. He doesn't shine for his game here so much solely because we have Dats and Z, and because he continues to not live up to the scoring expectations people place upon him, despite the idea that perhaps those expectations are simply unrealistic. On his own, and again, basically on any other team, he's a solid top 6 guy who still won't put up more then 40-50 points, but his two-way play would be highlighted far more than it is here, ultimately casting him in a better light. Well, considering in the first couple games Flip took 2-3 rather dumb, deserved penalties himself, I think you can rag on him for that...

Luongo is not as bad as some of his detractors make him out to be, but he is not even close to a great goalie. He's profoundly underrated and a career underachiever when it counts. Even in the Olympic Gold run, his greatest achievement to date, he was rather shaky at times. He's one of the many guys in this league that as of yet only has one level of play. He doesn't know how to flip the switch and turn it up a notch to win in the playoffs. But hey, even Joe Thornton seems to have finally figured out how to turn his game up, so maybe Luongo will work it out in time, but as of now, his contract is ABSURD, and he's simply not worthy of being named among the elite netminders in this league. There's absolutely no way that any actual critical thought went into formulating that statement. That has got to be one of the stupidest things I've heard a guy say to the press after such a showing. Unbelievable.

I completely agree. I think he's a fantastic defensive forward. I get harassed because I don't think he's going to score 70 points and I don't think he has strong offensive skills in general. Bear in mind that at least so far as my argument goes, I have no issues with his defensive play and think he's a solid defensive player. I take issue with people who expect him to be a 70-80 point or more type of player. I think it's unrealistic most likely. In the minds of his hardcore fans, that automatically makes me a hater. I find it completely silly. Of course, I have argued that he's the easiest guy on the team to trade to, but even that is more a compliment as he's the only guy who's a strong enough player to send out for a descent return that we could possibly give up. We tend to have a lot of solid defensive-minded guys up front but especially last year, goals were harder and harder to come by. The idea of sending out the Lebda's for a descent return were just absurd. If we wanted a guy who could score goals and put up points, you've got to give something worthwhile up, and Flip is always going to be the 3rd guy here so long as Dats and Z are around. With the 1-2 Selke-caliber punch of Z and Dats, it's tough to truly own a spot in the top-6 as a center which is really where he ought to be playing. I think Flip could be a Selke-level top-6 guy on another team where he had more of an opportunity to play his game without so much bouncing around between lines. I honestly think Detroit's push for points in general, but in particular out of Flip has hindered his development in that area. I just think it's silly to keep trying to squeeze points out of a guy who isn't a natural goal-scorer at all and an average play-maker at best when you could develop him to be everything Kris Draper was in his best days and about 5X more. Again, and I think this is true for more than just me, with Flip the issue isn't overall quality. It's merely the idea that he's going to come in and be a big time point contributor doesn't make sense. When we're talking about addressing scoring needs and Flip continues to come up in the land of "if only," it begs for these arguments to occur.

You got me. I hope we keep Eaves and Miller, though I kinda have a sneaking suspicious Miller will sign elsewhere. I really don't know though, and I rarely know with Holland. Like I said, I don't really know how at this point because I don't know what the teams going to look like on July 2nd, but I think there's a good chance that by the end of the summer, Maltby will be signed up for his final year with the Wings to go out with Draper and Osgood.

Doesn't really change my perspective on the matter. Bummer that he was injured and perhaps an explanation for the drop if it was truly serious, but it doesn't negate the fact that we've yet to see him put up numbers consistently. If he can't do it because he's too fragile to stay healthy, then it doesn't really change the bottom line in terms of scoring. I'll be more than happy, in fact, I'd be utterly thrilled to give Flip his due as an offensive force if that time comes. I don't dislike the guy at all. I just don't really think he's going to be the offensive force people expect him to be. Simple as that. We've yet to see it played out over the course of a full season, and he's yet to come even close to the marks some suggest he's capable of hitting. Even if you apply his point-per-game average this year out over an 82 game season, he's still resting at around the 50 point mark, which is fine, and what I expect of him at the upper end of his ability. But it's nowhere near 70 points.

I said he had a strong finish to the regular season and a strong first round, but where was he against San Jose? 5 games and really 1 assist to his name if you don't count the fluke goal San Jose scored on themselves that Flip got credit for, which I think is more than fair in trying to objectively analyze his production. Like I said, he had a strong finish to the season, but before he was injured he wasn't playing so well despite comparable conditions and ample ice time. If you want to pick and choose selected periods of time to suggest that he's going to be so strong offensively, then you need to take into account then the periods of time in which he wasn't so strong offensively. In doing that, one might see that perhaps there's a good deal of evidence to suggest that throughout his entire career thus far, he has been a streaky offensive player. By continuing to cherry-pick your facts/stats, you only emphasize his streaky nature more as it's far too easy to find long stretches of time where Flip is lacking in production. Again, just look at the Phoenix series compared to San Jose. He went from being a point per game player to arguably being a .2 point per game player from one series to the next, and he scored no goals against San Jose from his own shot! It's pretty lame to give him much credit based on Dan Boyle's second goal on the wrong net of the playoffs... Until I really see this guy put up points consistently over an entire season, I'm sticking to my 40-50 point prediction. I'm not denying that this past season wasn't his best offensively, but I still wonder how it would've turned out had he played the entire season. We've seen him rack up a lot of points in a 2-3 week span only to be minimally noticeable offensively multiple times before. You may not agree with my analysis on what he's capable of, but you cannot deny that we've yet to see him perform at the level you expect of him for a full season. It hasn't happened yet. That's the bottom line, and there's no logical argument to counter such a blatant fact.

I think he'll get signed here in Detroit. Holland said a month or so ago that he is definitely interested in bringing him back if he wants to play. It'll be a league minimum contract no doubt, and he likely won't play every game, but I do think it'll ultimately get done. If he was a guy looking for $1.5-2 million, no way, but it'll probably be a $500k deal which will likely be very doable. Maltby still can contribute on and off the ice proportional to what his cap hit will be.

That 4th goal was a real showcase of his talent... I'm not saying he played poorly at all, but his playoff performance was demonstrative of his offensive inconsistency. He had a strong 1st round, especially games 2 and 3, but what did he do in the San Jose series? 2 points in 5 games, a goal and an assist, and the goal was a result of San Jose putting the puck in their own net! He didn't even take a shot! Your "8 point/3 game streak" comment hit the nail on the head in my mind. He's been known to be streaky offensively, and despite a strong finish to the regular season, the streaky side was more evident in the playoffs despite a solid effort. Again, I can't stress it enough, I'm not saying he's worthless by any means, but I'm still not at all ready to hype up his offensive potential. That doesn't mean we should just trade him for the hell of it or anything either, but like some have said, it concerns me that every year we're expecting him to make a big step and every year something inevitably comes up to stifle said "big step." It just seems fairly logical to me that sooner or later you'd stop hoping he'll come up big on offense and work on bringing guys in that specialize in offense. If he's going to stay with the team, let him do what comes more naturally to him. He provides a better service to the team by putting him in a role that is more suited for him. I'm still not convinced that that role is a heavily offensive-oriented one by a long-shot. It'll be good to have Hudler back though. He's a hack on defense, but he knows how to score. I don't expect him to be the answer to all of our problems and I don't hold him in nearly as high of a regard as some, but it'll certainly be good to have another guy specializing in offense back. He produced as much or more than anyone one the team proportional to ice time, so if he can come in and put up point totals that come even close to his '08/'09 numbers with similar ice time, it'll be a huge plus for this team.

Hawks out of the West, Habs out of the East. Either one can win and I'll be happy. I'm a Red Wings fan first and foremost, and it's hard to even think of other teams as anything but the enemy, but Montreal, Chicago and Toronto are a bit different than most of the rest.

I'd like to think that getting out of this period scoreless will help the Wings get something going for the next period. They dodged quite a few bullets despite San Jose not exactly playing great, so it's a real good time to bring their A-game to start out the second and take control of this game.

I ain't hatin', I'm just saying, Howard owed us that one...STRONG!

Ugh, not a good time to take a penalty...let's hope the Sharks have as good of a power play as the last one... "

I'm not saying that the Sharks haven't been far better, but they haven't looked as strong as they did to start out the first 3 games. The intensity isn't quite there for either team yet. That said, I too am thankful for the scoreless game because we could be down, and I say get your game together and take control of the situation. The only reason the Sharks are dominating thus far is because we're not bringing it yet. Score's still even, so it's anyone's game. First goal is going to be big. Thankfully Howard's looked strong so far. If this was 1-3, we'd probably be down 2-0 by now.

I'll take it. Thank goodness Rob Blake is botching his shots...

While this is true, the Sharks don't exactly look great either. Neither team has come out with their best hockey by a long shot.

Well s***, we may be playing sloppy, but we're getting the breaks so far too.......damn.

We're looking a little too sloppy for my comfort level right now. We'd do well to score a goal, even an ugly, sloppy goal, and get some momentum going our way on the quick...