gcom007

There have definitely been people dropping the cliche of Osgood getting by on stacked teams. It's typical BS Osgood analysis around here. When Osgood plays well, it's because of stacked teams. When anyone else struggles, it's the team's fault. Meanwhile, in the regular season, when the team plays poorly, it's because they're not confident in Osgood to make the save. Then someone else comes in and plays well (and perhaps the team gets a wake up call and picks up their game too...) and suddenly the teams playing better because the goalie's giving them confidence. And that does bring me to a point about Howard again. If we're going to go with the idea that strong play from a goalie makes a team play better with more confidence, and then that weak play makes a team play worse with less confidence, you've got to question how Howard's play in the post-season is influencing this team. And while I'd agree that he certainly hasn't been the only problem, he's most certainly not been a strength for us the majority of the time thus far. He's struggled to hold leads and oftentimes given up the leads early. On multiple occasions he's surrendered the lead/let the other team tie it up merely moments after we tied it up/took the lead. And that boils down to the one thing I very much agree with Eva on: Howard's timing for giving up goals has been terrible, and far too often these goals are either stoppable or blatantly soft. Here is a stat that to me is fairly stunning: Howard's given up goals in pairs (or more...) just a few moments or less apart, in 6 out of 9 games. While the circumstances are obviously different given how much Osgood's played this year, if this were 2008 and Howard started and played as he has this year, he absolutely would have been pulled by now. The biggest reason we pulled Hasek is because he kept giving up goals in pairs, surrendering leads, and generally not stopping the puck at the worst times. Howard's absolutely had the same issue, and for as well as he's played at times (and bear in mind, I gave him a ton of credit for his Game 2 recovery and don't hold those 3rd and 4th goals against him), he's also played downright poorly at others. As I've said all along and all season, I like Jim Howard a lot and I'm very happy for all he's done this year and I think he's got a lot of potential if he keeps his head straight and continues to improve on his fundamentals. But at the end of the day, I'm not going to sugarcoat anything about the post-season: he hasn't been good enough, not even close. If Osgood were in game shape, I think Howard would have and probably should have been out in the first round. Far too often he has not played well enough to allow this team to get any kind of momentum or swagger going. When you're constantly giving up goals in pairs, giving up leads early, giving up leads or ties through the game, you don't give your team any chance to get going. Again, I'm not saying it's all his fault by any means, but you've got to sugarcoat it and some to say that he hasn't been a glaring weakness in the post-season far too often. And to suggest that he isn't helping the team play better is no stretch either. And while I get that it's real hard to put Osgood in at this point for other reasons, and while I get that Howard's finished games better than he started at times, it doesn't change the fact that we've lost more games than we've won and Howard's most certainly one of the reasons that is the case. So while it's not so cut and dry for me, I certainly understand why many are ready to yank Howard and see if Osgood can get it done again. This isn't just slappy's on the forum. It's the radio hosts, it's the journalists, and it's not a brand new suggestion after game 4. While I get that Howard is a rookie and I'm not going to hold this against him in the future, I don't think anyone is being honest if they suggest that Howard hasn't been incredibly disappointing in the post-season so far. The whole reason we went with Howard over a 3-time Cup winner down the stretch is because he played so great, at times looking utterly dominant while putting on a one man show. He absolutely has not played anywhere close to that level in the post-season. How can you really expect people to be happy about that?

To those trying to take something away from Osgood's performance the last couple of years, I just want to do a little stats comparison, as awful as they may be at times. Also of note, throughout the playoffs, Osgood was at or near the top of the league leaders in goalie stats throughout the playoffs. He didn't just come out and get by on strong teams, especially last year. The '08 team was certainly strong, but Osgood matched their effort and the numbers tell the story. I mean, for the love, the guy blanked the Penguins in the first two games to open the Stanley Cup Finals. I don't care how strong your team is, that's an amazing feat. And as far as last year goes, I think many of you are just totally forgetting things. Osgood was nothing short of outstanding, probably better even than he was the year before. The team had countless injuries throughout the playoffs to major stars. Lidstrom actually missed games! Hell, and game 4 against Columbus dragged his stellar stats down as he let in 5 goals while sick or dehydrated...I can't remember what it was, but he was FAR from 100% after only surrendering 2 goals in 3 games prior to that. And if you break it down over the course of the playoffs, Osgood was facing a lot of shots. On average he'd be just a few below Howard right now and Osgood isn't one to give up the rebound shots like Howard. If last June people had tried to say anything negative about Osgood's playoff performance, or tried to minimize it in any way, there would be a tidal wave of people declaring you wholly and completely insane. If we had won the Cup, Osgood was getting the Conn Smythe, absolutely no doubt about it. He was the difference in the playoffs for a team battered by injuries to its stars. Against the Blackhawks, a far, far, far stronger team offensively than Phoenix, without Nicklas Lidstrom for the final two games of the series, Osgood held the Hawks to 1 goal each game. And how well did Datsyuk play for us last year? How about in the first four games of the Finals? Oh wait, he didn't even play. How about Hossa? How about Holmstrom? How else can I put this? I think it's absolute lunacy to suggest that Osgood was anything short of brilliant during the last two post-seasons. And any way you shake it, when push comes to shove, Howard hasn't answered the call too much of the time this year. We're not even to game 3 of the second round yet and he's already given up almost as many goals as Osgood gave up in the entire Cup run in 2008! And in the first round we played one of the worst offensive teams in the league! It's worth defending Howard's play last night in particular, but far too often he's failed to raise his game, and he's created as much chaos for himself at times as anyone on this team. There's no way in hell you can't look at the goaltending as a problem when you're giving up 4 or more goals in 5 out of 9 of your starts thus far. It doesn't mean that goaltending has been the only problem, it doesn't mean we should put Osgood in, nor does it mean that Howard's been utterly terrible. But he's been nowhere near good enough. Not even close. You can't give up so many goals early, many of them stoppable if not blatantly soft, and expect the team to rally around him and play their best hockey. Osgood was a rock the last two post-seasons; he was as steady as they come. There's no way in hell you can look at Howard's post-season so far and say the same. Howard hasn't given this team a chance to relax and get their game together far too often. That's just not going to cut it, no matter how well he plays the rest of the game. And then there's last year... Babcock on Osgood last year after the playoffs: "Despite the loss, Red Wings coach Mike Babcock couldn't contain his praise for the veteran goalie. "I think just in the playoffs in general he was excellent for us," Babcock said. "(He) gave us a chance. You know, along the way in the playoffs this year (was) much different than last year. We never were always firing on all cylinders. We always had people missing. And Ozzie was one of our strengths, to say the least, all playoff long. I think he deserves a lot of credit. His numbers speaks for himself, he's done a great job." ( http://redwings.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=466559 ) And as Babcock says, the numbers tell quite a story here... Chris Osgood 2007-2008 Playoff Stats GP: 19 Record: 14-4 SO: 3 SA: 430 GA: 30 SV%: .930 GAA: 1.55 2008-2009 Playoff Stats GP: 23 Record: 15-8 SO: 2 GA: 47 SA: 637 SV%: .926 GAA: 2.01 Jimmy Howard 2009-2010 Playoff Stats GP: 9 Record: 4-5 SO: 1 GA: 26 SA: 293 SV%: .911 GAA: 2.92

Did he ever. That was a low-point in terms of class for the Wings without a doubt, and it's a shame because Cujo is as classy and as good of a guy as they come off the ice. The guy may have signed a huge $8 million/year deal, but I know for a fact that he was giving millions of it away to charitable causes. He was a selfless guy with his money, and I imagine that the only reason he negotiated the deals he did was to better be able to help those in need, again, as I know for a fact he wasn't spending a tremendous amount of that money on himself. He was just a good human being and a damn good goalie. He was the only thing we had going for us in the playoffs before the lockout ended his time here. It's a shame it had to end as it did for him.

That was my point though in saying that last night was his most important game. In the other games where he gave up the second goal, the 3rd and 4th goal tended to follow shortly thereafter as opposed to last night when he battled back and started making the big saves. I'm not disregarding his play throughout the game and while he eventually let in a 3rd and 4th goals, it was due to circumstances more outside of his control than in previous games. He was strong and resilient after the 2nd goal in this game. We were in this game last night until we lost our composure in the 3rd and took a ton of stupid penalties. You can't blame Howard for that. That said, again, he needs to be stronger in the first in games 3 and 4 if we're going to have a prayer, along with the rest of the team. He hasn't had all the help in the world, but he hasn't helped steady the ship early on, and that's important in the post-season more than ever. A big save when you're up 1-0 is as important as a goal that sends it to 2-0. We need that out of Howard tomorrow. I don't agree with much of Eva's analysis and I don't think Osgood should go in, but one thing he touched on that has been true in 6 of his 9 playoff starts is that he hasn't made timely saves to help us attain and maintain a lead. I do believe that's more important than some acknowledge. And to be fair and objective, one benefit Osgood could bring to the game even if a bit rusty is his ability to slow things down. He's much better about absorbing the puck and controlling the pace than Howard at this point. All season long, we've seen a more furious pace to the onslaught in front of Howard, but much of that has to do with Howard's struggles with rebound and puck control in general. Whereas many goalies smother the puck up on the first shot, Howard often gives up multiple rebounds, forcing him to make 2-3 saves and creating scrambles in our end. (Note: the following isn't an argument to put Osgood in, so much as discussion on why I thought Osgood should've been given more of a chance to be the guy heading into the playoffs) I think Howard certainly can improve on his weak points in time, but the youthful issues play into why I didn't like the idea of him starting in the playoffs as a rookie. Many have said for awhile that his technical shortcomings as a goaltender would be more evident in the playoffs as the intensity picks up and guys zero in on a goalies weaknesses and tendencies. Despite some strong moments at times, more often than not, this has been true. Again, I don't hold it against Howard as he is a rookie; it's just why I thought Osgood should've been given more chances to get going so he could lead the way again in the post-season. I simply saw no harm in giving Howard more time to learn what it takes to play at the NHL level; it's no knock on Howard as a goalie as he's just a rookie. Ultimately, 99% of the time I believe that the benefits of a veteran netminder in the playoffs outweigh the benefits of going with the younger regular season hotshot. Veterans know what it takes to win in the playoffs and how to help control the pace of those game. They oftentimes learn by watching and experiencing day to day how other veterans do it first. A lot of people thought it was stupid to go with Vernon over Osgood in '97 as Osgood was the younger hotshot at that time, and while he had his fair share of doubters too (which I still believe are solely the result of game 7 against San Jose in his rookie year, enough said...), many questioned the move. I think Vernon's regular season stats were a bit rough (he had a sub-.900 save percentage if memory serves me correctly...), definitely not as strong as Osgood's who played more as well. But Vernon was the veteran who had already won a Cup, and he went on to win the Cup for us again and the Conn Smythe as well. I have little doubt that watching Vernon win that Cup in 1997 was the biggest difference maker in Osgood's career. He was a strong goalie technically, already an All Star and Vezina runner-up before he was 25, but regular season stats and records oftentimes have little to do with postseason stats and records, let alone the sound mental approach needed to go the distance in the playoffs. As he's said again and again, he learned all that watching Vernon. So for me, I think Osgood should have started in the playoffs, no matter how the regular season went down. However, that doesn't mean I think he should go in at this point. I mean this as no knock to Jimmy Howard as a goalie, and I'm not just backtracking because he hasn't been great in the playoffs. I've said it all along for the same reasons I'm reiterating now. And while I don't hold anything against Howard, the experience of watching him thus far in the post-season is certainly affirming of my previous thoughts on going with the veteran in the post-season. Worst case scenario you have to go to Howard if Osgood screws up. Much better to let the veteran battle with the emotions of getting pulled than a rookie who doesn't show up, and if a rookie can't get it done after Osgood, it's not going to be nearly as (potentially) scarring to him as being the starter from game 1 has potential to be. Once in a blue moon there's a Patrick Roy who can do it all as a rookie, but it's RARE as can be. From all I've seen through the years, you're far more likely to burn a guy out by putting too much pressure on him early on. I think Howard's got a lot of skill and potential, but to say I'm not concerned for how this could end up affecting his career would be a lie. Again, far too many goalies come on strong only to burn out fast. I suppose there's nothing to be done about it now, I'm just saying...he's a good kid, and I've loved seeing him prove so many wrong this year. Unfortunately, I know all too well how quickly people will turn against you as well...

I don't know. The media's been all over the Red Wings inability to put in a full 60 minutes. That's yet to change, so why should the refs change? Hmmmmm............ This is silly, any way it goes. s***ty refs or not, both those games were winnable and the Wings did everything in their power to lose while giving the refs every opportunity possible to make s*** calls.

I don't think last night was Howard's best game, but I still think it was his most important. It was the first game of the playoffs in which he battled back strong after giving up a second goal. He's had some moments close to meltdown after second goals where he's looked totally ready to crumble. A third goal tends to follow fast. It was right there last night after the second goal but he made a huge save and battled hard and kept the team in the game. Even if you want your goalie to make a save on the 3rd and 4th goal, getting on the 5 on 3 in particular was no fault of his and I think it's real hard to assign blame to him for that goal. We didn't last night's game because of Jimmy Howard, though at the same time, we haven't won a game in this series yet either, and Jimmy Howard has a hand in that too. There haven't been incredibly soft goals, but there has been a lack of big saves before we're already in a hole. If we're going to have a prayer, he needs to be far stronger in the first period in games 3 and 4. He has failed to make the big saves early on and when you go down early, or you don't maintain early leads, you're not set up too well for the rest of the game. Just like the rest of the team, Jimmy Howard needs to put in a full 60 minutes in games 3 and 4 or this series is over.

This is nonsense. There is a fairly literal definition of the term "bandwagon." You would do well to read up on the concept of "bandwagon effect" so as to understand why you should stop using the term in a manner that makes no sense. Based on your working definition, your grievance with "bandwagon fans" revolves around an issue of faith more so than an actual case of "bandwagon effect" in action. There is a difference between one who is pessimistic and one who is optimistic for certain, but in this case, such states do not necessarily minimize how much of a fan one may be. It has more to do with how specific people's personalities deal with any given situation. Thinking or imagining the worst absolutely does not automatically insinuate that you do not care endlessly about something. You would do well to stop deriding people who care enough about the Red Wings to seek out a message board, make an account, and then post on a forum, perhaps thousands of times. They may not be the same type of fan you are, but they are most certainly fans. You may not process things the same way or agree with them, but it is naive to make sweeping comments to suggest that there are many people here that do not care endlessly about this team. It is entirely unnecessary and presumptuous.

While this is irrelevant to the topic, your assessment of Osgood's challenges the last few years, especially last year, is way off. That stacked team last year had countless injuries and were a defensive nightmare. How on earth do people so easily forget that Osgood was essentially a shoo-in for the Conn Smythe last year for this reason alone? We had every reason to go down early if not for the excellent play of Osgood. And remember in 2008 against the Pens? 2 shut outs to open the series and take a 2-0 lead against Bettman's fake-son's team!? Give me a break. Osgood was nothing short of outstanding any way you shake it the last two years. That said, and I'm not saying Howard has been horrible, he hasn't played very well either. He's had really solid moments, but far too many piss-poor moments as well and he has lacked the ability to make key saves at the right time now in 6 of 9 playoff games. He's not losing the games for us in a Legace-esque fashion, but he's certainly not doing much to help matters either. He's got to do more to keep us in the game in the first or it doesn't matter how well he plays in the 2nd or 3rd. Phoenix was a terrible offensive team and now we're facing a team that's actually got some firepower. He's got to be stronger early on in these games, whether the defense is helping or not. It's everyone's fault we're not playing well more often than not in this post-season, and Jimmy Howard absolutely deserves to shoulder as much of the blame for that as the rest of the team. It's a tough lesson to learn, but he's a rookie, and hopefully he is learning that it takes a lot more of "something" to do in the playoffs what seems fairly natural in the regular season. While I'm not letting him off the hook for this post-season, I'm not about to hold it against him either. Again, ROOKIE!!!

What makes me think that we're not going to win this series is that we've generally played better on the road than we have at home. Adding to that, both of these road games were winnable games but we didn't find a way. No one has stepped up and made a big difference in these games. Our superstars haven't been superstars. Howard hasn't been horrible but he hasn't been anywhere close to great. Our special teams are terrible. And for the love, FACEOFFS!!! That's all I'm saying on ******* faceoffs... Let's put it like this... Even Joe "I AM THE BIGGEST PLAYOFF UNDERACHIEVER EVER" Thornton scored a goal tonight! I figured we'd be fine if we split in San Jose, but I figured we're losing the series if we go down 2-0. It's tough for me to waver on that now just because we're in the thick of it. We certainly have the skill to win this series if we use it, but I'm not holding my breath. If we're going to have a prayer, these next two games are absolutely must-win games. They've got to come out and have a much better first period than they've had in games 1 and 2. We need to score the first two goals. Howard needs to make the big saves before we're already behind. We need to not give the refs the opportunity to make stupid calls. It's gotta be all in right from the start of game 3 or we will lose this series, no doubt about it.

Can't take it out of context? I would say I'm keeping within the context as opposed to trying to take the penalty out of context. Bad calls happen; poorly called games happen. These guys are professionals and they need to be able to respond better than they did in a game where the refs are calling a lot of slop. Anyone could see early on that these refs were whistle-happy tonight and instead of rolling with the punches and tightening things up, they got even sloppier than normal! Again, I'm not saying the refs didn't suck. Without a doubt, they did, there's no argument or debate about it. It certainly didn't help matters tonight, but we lost the game because of our own poor choices; our own sloppy play. We took way too many stupid penalties at terrible times. Remember, it was just a tie game before Cleary's dumb penalty and Flip's dumb penalty that ate up time we could've used to make a push. And then a blatant too many men on the ice call killing our chance for an advantage at the end?! Seriously, I get that people are pissed at the refs and losing this game and I get how it's easy to do a sort of math on the matter to assign blame to someone else, but the Wings did more to lose this game than they did to win it. San Jose did more to win this game than to lose it. That's the bottom line.

When you see the refs are calling phantom calls all game, why in the f*** do you keep taking chances on scrappy, 50/50 penalty type stuff? Bert's "holding" call was ABSURD. No argument. But then Kronwall takes a blatant penalty on the PK that he absolutely didn't need to take. So I should blame the refs for Kronwalls total stupidity in taking a blatant, unnecessary penalty when we're already on the PK and up only by 1?!?! Seriously?!?!? Every penalty against us after Bert's "holding" call was a legit penalty. The only phantom call after that was against Heatley! Sorry, no way is blaming the refs going to fly. They may have sucked, but we gave this game away.

Again, as bad as the refs were in this game, we gave them way too many opportunities to make questionable calls. We could have won this game in spite of the refs, but we blew it. You can't blame the refs for our sloppy play and lack of composure. AGAIN, this game was as winnable as they come in spite of any of the refs iffy calls, but we lost control and lost the game. Blaming the refs is futile when you play as sloppy as we did.

Bert's calls were bulls*** but we gave the refs way too many chances to make questionable calls. We lost this game any way you shake it. It wasn't the refs, even if they were s***ty. The Wings played way too sloppy when they KNOW the refs are calling just about everything.

This may not be Howard's best outing, but it's shaping up to perhaps be his most important outing as a playoff goalie. Learning to bounce back from adversity within the context of a 60 minute game is incredibly important and thus far, Howard's struggled with that in the playoffs. Tonight seems to be a different story. So far this is the best Howard's played after giving up a 2nd goal in the playoffs. He'll need to keep it up if we're going to have a chance. He's hardly the only guy out there slacking on some of these plays, but we need big saves from the goalie in the playoffs to win. That HUGE save after the 2nd goal was a turning point in the game if you ask me. San Jose scores there and Howard and the Wings likely would've been shattered. That's the power of a huge save at the right time, and it's absolutely necessary to be able to do that to win in the playoffs. Let's hope we keep it up!

Unbelievable. This is just sick. Waiting for the 3rd goal now...isn't it inevitable?

I'm not really sure how to feel. I'm happy with the finish obviously after that horrid first, but I can't forget for too long that the Sharks didn't have Marleau tonight either...if he comes back he'll add some punch to their offense even if he doesn't increase production as he'll just be another guy wearing us down. But if he picks it up after the first round, ugh...Sunday is must win...

I have this sick feeling that San Jose is going to come out hard right from the get go in the 2nd and utterly slaughter us...this is just brutal so far...

This is pathetic.

And my heart is beating out of my chest...

Okay, we needed that goal, but next goal is HUGE. If San Jose scores, we're f***ed beyond return. WE score, it's huge for us. Howard can't really be blamed for this, but he seems to fall apart once a team gets the second goal in the playoffs thus far. He just gets rattled and loses it. And while he can't be blamed, if he's getting rattled and not helping us out when the D f***s up, we're not going to win this series. Big power play...

Ugh...this is why Phoenix scared me. Phoenix SUCKS offensively! San Jose's one of the better offensive teams out there, even if Joe Thornton continues in his terrible playoff ways. If Phoenix was capitalizing off our mistakes and defensive weaknesses, San Jose would have a field day. We're going to have to play a hell of a lot better, but more so, a lot SMARTER against San Jose or we're going to help them shake their choker status real fast. That said, Detroit is still strong enough to win this series and even this game if they get their s*** together NOW! No reason we can't win this at all. ASDFJKJKLASDFJKLAS f***. Okay. f***. They just scored as I was typing that. Holy ******* s***. Unf***ingbelievable.

It'll start Thursday given the concerts scheduled this weekend. No doubt about it. As far as the next round, I'm really excited, but realistically, we're going to have to play a whole lot better and more consistently to win. San Jose's got a lot more firepower than Phoenix and Phoenix still lit us up in 4 of the 7 games. We got lucky when we pulled out game 2 despite a sloppy effort, as in the end, it was the difference most likely. But if we give San Jose four sloppy efforts, they'll win four games and the series. I'm not trying to be pessimistic, and I'm pumped, but this series was not comforting to me considering it's only going to get harder from here on out. Then again, can the Sharks really win? That'd put them in the semi's...that can't really happen, can it? It's the Sharks, they always blow it... Well, yeah, I'm pumped...can't wait for Thursday!!!

More No-Doan for Game 7 links, updated just moments ago: http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2010/04/shane_doan_wont_play_in_critic.php

SO EFFING HAPPY WITH THE BOUNCEBACK OF JIMMY HOWARD!!! Great to see. Couldn't be happier for this kid. Great win tonight on many levels. Hopefully we can close it up Sunday. I'm fine with an ugly game even so long as we can close it up. 5-4 Wings, 6-5 Wings, I don't care. I just want to win and get this series over with.

This thread is generally in response to numerous posts in other threads in which people are putting a tremendous amount of emphasis on the goaltending as the means to our success and more so to our continued success as the injuries continue to pile up. Basically, I think the suggestion that our goalies need to "stand on their heads" for us to win to be utterly stupid. I find the idea to be lacking in substance due to the the way is being presented. I also believe that you're setting yourself up to hate Jimmy Howard if you adopt such a ridiculous perspective on the situation. So let's step back for a minute... We need our goalies to play well, but they do not need to stand on their heads to win games. Here is some truth: Our defense has generally been FAR better this year than last. Even with Lebda and Meech in the lineup every night, our defensive group and our team defense has improved significantly since last regular season and most notably since the start of this season when it was absolutely abhorrent. Remember that? The first month of the season? We actually had most of our guys in the lineup at that point. I know, that must feel like an eternity ago considering the current situation. But truly, it's amazing how quickly people seem to be forgetting October already. Neither of our goalies were putting up good numbers. Osgood was playing well sans one really rough night and Howard was playing just fine. Granted, we weren't really winning, but the most overwhelming reason why was because the team as a whole was absolutely awful. Our defense didn't give our goalies a chance most nights. No one jumped down Osgood's throat too much at the time but people were ready to string up Howard and then feed him to the wolves. Osgood got the benefit of the doubt in many ways as he was coming off a strong playoffs and it was fairly obvious that the defense was non-existent in many games, but again, 99% of this board wanted Howard gone at that point. But suddenly in early November, despite the injuries piling up, we finally get a winning streak going. We finally get the defense playing defense. We finally get our forwards back-checking. The team realizes that with all the injuries, especially the loss of Franzen, that they'd have to actually play defense (duh.........) to stand a chance. And what do you know, they start playing defense and Howard actually has an opportunity to get something going and now he's everyone's hero. Amazing how that works... I'm not trying to take away anything from Howard as he's played well, but both of our goalies have played well this season for the most part. Osgood's "seemed" worse lately because when he got sick, Howard was able to be the guy and we got going on the upswing. Incidentally, early on when Howard is getting his first starts which are bound to be a little nerve-wracking for him, his ROOKIE mistakes were amplified because he had no team in front of him. But for both guys, when they've looked at their worst, or perhaps more accurately, when they've put up "bad" numbers, it was at a point when they had a terrible team in front of them. I don't care how good a goalie is, they're not going to put up great stats and save the day when they have nothing happening in front of them. I don't care if it's Howard or Luongo. Maybe a Luongo or Brodeur steals one or two games here and there, but you're still going to lose most nights. I make such a strong point of this because I know the second Howard starts to slip, he's going to catch hell, and it'll be relentless once again. I also would venture to guess that it'll likely correlate with the defense slipping as well. As I've said before, I'll say it again: it's not fair or reasonable to throw these guys to the curb when they don't have a team in front of them. Try to remember what our defense was like when these guys were at their worst numbers wise and think about how the defense is playing now. Then when things get shaky again, try to look at the broader situation as opposed to instantly pointing a finger at the guys wearing the most pads. More truth: You can only reasonably expect so much from rookies, and you can only expect so much from goalies when they don't have teams that play defense in front of them. Osgood has had to deal with the latter this season while Howard has had to deal with both elements working against him. Osgood will be fine because he's used to the fans pettiness by now, but don't set Jimmy Howard up to fail. He's played well and I certainly hope he continues to, but this is still his rookie season and there are numerous things he needs to work out in his game. It'll be pathetic if he starts slipping a bit (and let's be realistic, he probably will at some point) and all of the sudden we have to go back to 18 goalie threads a day and absurd trade ideas. Osgood deserves better after all he's done and Howard deserves his chance (and our patience...) as much as anyone at this point.