gcom007

to quote myself a moment ago... "OH f***!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Sloppy passing and sloppy rebound control. That's not going to get us far in the playoffs. And I don't care that Bryzgalov's given up more rebounds. Phoenix has been scoring on Jimmy's rebounds. Again, time to cut the sloppy passes and sloppy rebound control. Terrible time to give up a goal.

BIG HIT BY HOWARD!!!

And Eaves.

Love it.

I really hope Flip continues to prove me wrong.

Holy rebound control Batman.

As much as I've restrained my negativity towards the Williams signing all year, this is precisely why I don't get why we bothered to bring him back. What does he really bring to this team? I'd love to be proven wrong by him, but the guy has never been one to show up in the post-season, and he's certainly not a guy who you can count on to bring the physical level of play up in the grittier playoffs. Siging Eaves made all the sense in the world and some at the price. Bert was totally worth the gamble at the price and I still say it's been a good deal for the Wings at $1.5 million. But Jason Williams at $1.5 million? Really? I never got it...

I like Abs, but I don't think he's going to be the difference maker some think he will at this point. He's still young. He's had some clutch moments, but he still needs to develop to be relied on consistently. I'm not saying that I wouldn't like to see him put in for Draper now and again if Draper doesn't play better, but I'm not going to expect much from him should it happen, and I can already envision a multitude of "Abdelkader sucks!!!" threads creeping up. He's a few "average" games away from Ville Leino status on LGW's, because that's just how it goes around here...

It's a long series. I'm not worried about anything, at least right now...

What a win! Even I doubted it for awhile, but it's good to see us finish 5th, which is where i suspected they'd finish most of the season. I think we've got the best settle going in to be honest. Bring on the Coyotes!!!!!

You know, I'm not counting the Blues out yet. If you look at Calgary's, Colorado's and the Blues' schedules, the Blues have likely the easiest of the bunch, plus a game in hand over Calgary. If the Blues beat the Preds tonight and the Flames beat the Av's tomorrow, there'll still be a 4 point gap, but again, the Blues have got an extra game on the Flame's and after tonight, only one game against a Playoff team (Chicago). They need to win tonight though to be able to write off a potential loss to Chicago. The Flames don't have an easy road in to the 8th spot. 3 out of their 5 remaining games are against the current top seeds out of the West. Tomorrow they play the Av's, and if they win, they're tied at 89 points for 8th. I think they've got a good shot at that one, which would be good for the Blues chances if they're able to pull off a win tonight against the Preds. After all, the Av's face top seeds from the division in 3 of their last 6 games as well. The Blues need to pick up 10 points out of their remaining 12, but I think it's doable with their remaining schedule if they keep playing well. I think they've got a real good chance of passing Calgary in the running in any event, and if the Av's continue to slide, then they very well could sneak into the 8th and final spot. Sure, it'd be a feat, but they did it last year. If anyone is going to sneak in, St. Louis certainly knows how.

I give these lines 1 game as usual...at the end of the day, we just don't have the right balance to ice multiple consistent scoring lines. And I think people are too worked up about Osgood/Howard one way or the other. For all of Osgood's rust and supposedly "bad" play this year, he hasn't been near as bad as last year. I'm not saying that the whole benching thing helps much, but I think you'll see Osgood finish strong. I think the writing is on the wall with this quote... "I think Ozzie’s had some real good practices in a row and battled hard and I told him his job is when he gets an opportunity to try and run with it. He understands that. I don’t know when that is. I didn’t make any promises.’’ I am not trying to take away anything from Howard's stellar play for most of this season, but he's been cooler for awhile now and while not bad, not real good either since the Olympic break. As much as Howard's proven this year, he's still a rookie. Osgood's a veteran with 3 Cup rings, plus 2 outstanding playoff runs in a row now. When Howard was playing lights out, it was a no-brainer to give him the majority of the starts. Then Osgood and Babcock had some spats which no doubt has something to do with Osgood not getting as many starts, but they seem to be on better terms now. In all my years of watching Osgood, I've learned never to count him out. He knows this is it, Babcock knows this is it, and no matter how great Howard has played this year, management is going to want Osgood starting in the playoffs if they can at all help it. This has to be all the more true since Howard hasn't been "outstanding" lately. I'm not saying that as a knock on him either; if you're at all thinking of going with a rookie over a veteran Cup winner who was in game 7 of the finals a year ago, he better be playing "outstanding" all year, and even then it's no sure bet that he's going to get the nod. I'm calling it now, if the Wings make the playoffs, my money is on Osgood starting. Make no mistake, he'll be on a Hasek-sized leash, but he'll start. And whether it seems unfathomable now or not to some, he may be the Wings only prayer come April...

I'm not saying Howard's been great since the Olympic break or that it wouldn't be a horrible idea to give Osgood a start, but goaltending isn't going to make or break this team that doesn't seem to know how to play hard every night. I'm not angry, maybe because I don't expect much out of the team at this point, but this was a must-win game and they could have won. What else is there to say?

To everyone saying things about our stars such as "they're not playing well..." Did you ever stop to think that having better guys around overall helps other guys play better? It's not as simple as a guy having a set potential he's capable of under any circumstances. When you lose as many quality guys as we did, then deal with injuries, then have to constantly try to gel with new guys game to game, it's going to hurt. People underestimate how much another real solid goal-scoring threat could change the momentum in a game for the team and for the individuals, including the stars.

Any answer other than Howard is ludicrous. All arguments aside about whether Osgood should be getting more starts or starting in the playoffs, fact is, Howard's been the guy playing, and as such he's about the only reason this mess of skaters even has had a prayer in many of these games. I know some people have been getting down on him since the break (surprise surprise ) but if you ask me, the guy can bomb for the rest of the year and we can miss the playoffs, but he's still the MVP of the team this year. Even if he slumps from here on out, his streak of quality, consistent play will have outpaced any other skater on the team this year without a doubt. He proved a hell of a lot after even the management seemed to be preparing to write him off by the the trade deadline. He's definitely got some things to work on, but he's had a hell of a rookie year and if he stays focused, balances the pressure and works hard in the off-season and continuing into next season to keep improving and developing, he's got a lot of potential to have a real bright career. Again, any way it winds up, it's been a hell of a rookie year and even if it doesn't end as well as it's gone at some points, there are a tremendous amount of positives for him to build on heading into next season. So who's the MVP? Howard. No doubt about it.

A) Of course the agent is seeking a $6 million contract. Hossa's proved that his agent doesn't run the show when he signed with the Wings in the first place. His agent was negotiating for more money than Lidstrom made, and Hossa apparently got on the phone himself and said, "Pay me less than Lidstrom, I don't care." And again, do you think his agent was thrilled about him walking away from all the monster-deals being thrown his way for a 1-year deal? I'm not saying Hossa doesn't believe he's worth good money, but I don't think one can say it's a priority of his at this point, even when considering the Chicago deal. B) I'm almost positive Holland went on the record saying that they didn't even offer him a $4 million cap hit deal. As I said, I distinctly recall this because I remember saying that the amount was almost an insult to Hossa. As in, why even bother negotiating when you're offering far lower than rock-bottom dollar for a legitimate star. Holland played it like a low-baller on Craigslist. C) I absolutely think Hossa would have signed the deal with the Wings for a $4.5 million cap hit. He suggested being willing to many times throughout the season, and I really don't believe he was simply playing the PR game. I think it's very obvious that he loved playing here. Remember, he was shocked because he was expecting to be traded to Detroit over Pittsburgh before the 2008 run. Pittsburgh came in with a better deal last minute, but they were already negotiating a 1-year extension. That was suggested mildly in a few places beforehand, but blatantly discussed in the Detroit News (I think) mid-season last year. Perhaps you recall. Bottom line, Hossa wanted to be a Wing, I don't think anyone can argue that and I have not a single, solitary shred of doubt that he would've signed a deal with the Wings for $4.5 million, and I think it would've been wrong if he signed for anything less than that. As I said, anything less is just insulting in the context of the rest of the NHL. D) We needed to get through one year of cap hell. Sacrifices would have to be made, but in return you get one of the best wingers in the game who fits into the Wings system as well as anyone at a great price. This summer, things ease up and we can balance things out a bit better again. Plus, the cap will probably keep increasing. Even at $5 million, this was a no-brainer deal to me for the long-run. E) Honestly, a $6 million cap hit over 5-6 years would not have even bothered me. This year would be a bit rough, but ummm, this year has been a bit rough. And I think to anyone looking at it objectively, you knew it was going to be an adjustment, "scrape by" kind of year any way it went. F) So give me Hossa for the long haul, damnit!

I don't remember where I read this, but I know for certain that he was once quoted as saying he knows what the cap hit would have to be for him to be able to sign and that he was willing to work in that range. That area was blatantly in the $4-4.5 million range which was mentioned numerous times by not only the press, but Holland himself who wasn't spilling secrets so much as quoting simple math. It was no secret at all what the number needed to be, and he inferred numerous times that he was willing to go there, but............. I think it ended up boiling down to Holland wanting to keep two mid-level guys over giving Hossa closer to the maximum amount of money he had to play with. I believe Holland said their final offer to him was under $4 million, perhaps even lower than Franzen's. I want to say that the final offer amounted to a $3.75 million cap hit, which I thought was almost an insult to be honest. That's why I think $3.75 was correct, because I remember reading/hearing Holland say that, I came on here and posted that very thing: "that's an insult to Hossa." Anyways, that came out right around July 1 in numerous official outlets. I didn't and don't blame Hossa for not signing that deal, but I do believe that if Holland could see all his FA's walk a week into the future, he would've bumped the cap hit up to around $4.5 million to keep him a Wing. I think he played the whole situation with EVERY FREE AGENT far too conservatively and I think it bit him in the ass. Again, I have little doubt that had he better known that all his FA's would walk, Hossa would be a Wing right now.

I totally agree that it's not fair to Flip to hold him up to Hossa. Know that I don't do so to belittle Flip as an individual player and any comparisons I make are solely done for the sake of addressing levels of compromise you end up with and in what areas when you have different guys in the fold. I don't really disagree with you as far as play in the defensive zone. The fact that Hossa simply has better hands might give him a slight edge in my mind, but even you know that I've never been one to discount Flips defensive strengths. When you're just talking defense, it's a fairly negligible concern. I think the only reason it's discussed is because so often you have to give up defensive depth, like that found in guys like Flip, to get offensive depth. And "offensive depth" SO EASILY can translate to "DEFENSIVE LIABILITY!" And believe me, I'm a HUGE, HUGE, HUGE proponent of having a strong defense, which is why I really do have a lot more respect for Flip than you might think I do. But anyways, point is, what was great about the Hossa idea is that you get a sniper who has great hands and play-making abilities, he works his ass off, and on top of all that, he's a whole hell of a lot closer to "Selke-candidate" than "defensive liability" by a million miles. Over the summer after we signed him, many people cracked up at the prospect of us having three guys that could make a run for a Selke in Hossa, Dats and Z. I wasn't quite there personally, but the fact that it's not a wholly ludicrous thought says a lot. To me, Hossa was really the perfect move for the Wings to make. He's about as complete of a hockey player as anyone in the game today. I know I'm just sitting at a keyboard, but I see a team adding a star winger who can score a lot of goals, and we do so without compromising on defensive depth at all and as I outlined, we bring a guy into the system who's real good to have around the younger players with the work ethic and dedication he brings every day to back up the genuine star-power. It brings the star-power down to earth which I think is a real good thing for the kids to see. He's not a pretentious guy; he's got a great attitude, which sadly isn't the easiest thing to find among stars in the game. Sure, we probably lose Flip in the process, but as you and I have agreed on some level, he's overkill on the Red Wings as a 3rd line center. And considering that's likely to be his role so long as Dats and Z are around, having $3 million tied up on a 3rd line center that doesn't address our goal-scoring needs simply doesn't seem like as good of a deal to me as having Hossa and all the benefits he brings playing on someone's wing instead, even if it's a weaker over-all center. It's a compromise in one area to try to balance out another area. And make no mistake, if the cap didn't exist, I would probably be one of the one's saying KEEP FLIP! Like I said, I value defense like you wouldn't believe, but again, with Hossa, you just get it all. There just aren't many Marian Hossa's in the NHL...

I'd still take Hossa. I believe I said it earlier in this thread, but a player of Hossa's caliber is going to make the $1-2 million players around him look like $3-4 million players. Stars have that ability, and it's not often accounted for when thinking plain old numbers. Flip's a dependable guy with a strong defensive game and Hudler is an inconsistent little guy who manages to put up ridiculous numbers considering his ice time. It's not like anyone can look at either and say they're remotely bad, but I still say give me a 150% guy like Hossa; give me the star. Hossa can put up the points of Flip and Hudler combined and play great on D as well. Plus, the whole "making the $1-2 million guys better" thing, but let's go a little deeper. How does it look to all those other players when a genuine star like Hossa busts ass as hard or harder than anyone else on the ice game after game? What message does that send to the other guys? And what message does it send when a genuine star takes a huge discount to play on a great team without jeopardizing the entire cap structure? Sure, it's a front-loaded deal arguably worth far more than the cap hit, but make no mistake, everyone and their mother knows that he could have racked up even more than Chicago deal ended up netting him if he went to a weaker team or played more of a short term game. A lot of teams would pay have $8 million a year easy for 5-6 years, maybe more! Remember the summer before he signed with the Wings? He turned down A LOT of money to come here... So which option is going to send a better message to a team? A top-notch star like Hossa who takes a sizable discounts to play on a contender while leaving cap room to avoid having to be a one-man show? Then going on to outwork just about everyone every day, leading by example in pushing himself to be the first forward into the offensive zone and the first forward back to cover on D. The other option? You have a couple more of these middle of the road guys like Flip and Hudler, each taking around $3 million a year. One's a hard worker who can't score and the other is a bit of a defensive liability who hasn't figured out how to stay out of the coach's doghouse. Even one of Flip's most ardent fans here has admitted that he hasn't played up to his contract yet. Neither (if Hudler was playing out his contract this year) could really be considered drastically overpaid, but then again, Hossa at $4.5 million, or even $5.2 million, certainly falls under the category of "underpaid" by NHL standards. And are our younger guys just coming up into the system going to learn more from Hudler and Flip or someone like Hossa? While it's certainly just my opinion, I think the Hossa angle trumps these other angles, all the more so when you consider that we would really only be in cap hell for one year most likely. This year was hell any way you look at it, but it lightens up for us come July 1, 2010. And the way this season is gone, I'd rather have bet long-run and taken the Hossa deal, possibly leading to a weaker team this season. I felt the same way a year ago that I do now that I'm in it: either way this year went, it was going to be rough. I think Hossa would've been a better long-run move for this team rather than letting him slip away because of what will likely amount to one ultra-cap-crunched year. I don't think we could have possibly had a worse season than we've had in doing so...

Entitlement? Jeff Finger? Unless Flip improves dramatically on offense, I don't believe he'll get a raise at all, even considering inflation. So long as Hank and Dats are here, he's a 3rd line center on this team. Ken Holland gambled once on a 3rd line center hoping he'd blossom into a guy who could generate more offense. He's yet to do that, and I can't see him getting as good of a contract from the Wings again. I've said numerous times he's worth more to other teams in general, so I imagine that he'll either take less or similar money to stay a Wing or he'll walk as a free agent. That is if he isn't traded beforehand. He's still the easiest guy on the team to trade that could actually net a descent return. So if Holland ever needs to make a move of a bigger nature, I won't be surprised if I read that Flip is involved.

Right....... A healthy Flip scored a whopping 3 goals and racked up some assists over a long playoff run. People look at that and say it's Flip at his best, and then compare him to Hossa at his worst while dealing with injuries. Hossa still managed to net 6 goals, and those goals win games. He also had some assists. He also continued to play well defensively. Let's try to balance out a great, healthy playoff performance with a great, healthy playoff performance. Try comparing Hossa's 2008 playoff performance with Flip's 2009 playoff performance. How did Hossa do the previous year on the Pens run? He put up some pretty solid point totals, no? I believe many were arguing that he was the Pens best player throughout that playoff run, despite the presence of Crosby. Injured Malkin doesn't count. I try to play fair and not twist facts to suit my ridiculous assertions. "I'll tell you one thing I saw was Hossa doing great in the playoffs while Malkin didn't do jack s***." And Flip's no Malkin... I don't live to make excuses for guys, and Yzerman is my favorite because he did more on one leg than most did on two, but I have no idea how he did that and I know of no other guys who have been able to play at his level with his degree of injuries. I think it's even fair to consider how "fragile" a guy is when considering contracts and overall return, but here's the thing...Hossa's typically been a pretty healthy guy. Hell, think about Franzen and Kronwall and you shift uncomfortably a bit, then you try to stop thinking about it. That's what I'm doing right now! And what about that other guy... While I don't want to hop on a hate-Datsyuk train seeing as I am a huge Datsyuk defender if there ever was one, even if you want to talk about injuries and durability, historically Hossa would be a better bet. I love Datsyuk, but that guy has wound up with serious injuries in the playoffs too many times. Again, not saying we should dump him at all, just trying to reinforce the idea that you're not going to make much sense ripping on Hossa in general based on last years playoff performance. You can say you prefer keeping the cap hit lower and the contracts shorter with lower priced guys like Flip. That's fair. That's your opinion. But your quoted statement is of an utterly stupid nature, and I think you're smart enough to admit that. So try sticking to something you can actually defend logically. No one likes injuries, and you can't handicap who wins and loses based on injuries. But that doesn't mean we can't be objective about who has far more potential to produce when it counts. And if we're going to be logical and try to build him up, comparing his performance to that of an injured star is just a s***ty stance to begin with. If I were playing devils advocate and trying to defend Flip, I'd try to avoid any and all comparisons with Hossa's performance in the off-season because anyone with half a brain knows that if Hossa was healthy he would've played circles around Flip.

THANK YOU!!! For as often as he says we're the illogical ones, you'd think he'd at least be able to keep some of the rudimentary stuff clear... I think Flip's real solid on D to be certain, but I'd still never say he's better than Hossa on D or even close to it. Flip could get closer if he was just stronger, but he's not. I don't know if he's literally not strong in terms of physical muscle mass or if he just doesn't know how to use his strength, but the guy gets pushed around out there game after game and falls way too much. And no one can realistically say that many out-hustle Hossa either. The Flip fans love to go down the "he's a hard worker road," but when Hossa was here, there was no question as to who was working the hardest out there on every shift. That was a huge reason so many fell in love with him right off the bat. He was the perfect fit for a Wing. He had a ton of talent, but he was also humble, dedicated to playing a complete game and a tireless worker every damn shift. The only reason he's got anyone around here talking crap about him is because the playoffs didn't go so well for him and he ended up leaving. It doesn't matter to them that he was injured, and probably far more so than was let on after the fact. He took a dirty, dirty hit from Pronger early in the Anaheim series, and I don't think he looked the same after that. Maybe it put the shoulder over the edge or maybe it was something else, but there's no way he was healthy in the playoffs. If he ended up getting signed and he came back from surgery and played as well for us as he has for Chicago, he'd be universally loved by this place again, and no one would give a damn about Flip and Hudler being gone. Instead of this thread, it'd be, "Flip who?"

This still almost brings me to tears... It was reported numerous times here and there (as best as I can remember...) that around $40 million over 9-10 years was Hossa's goal. I remember it specifically being said that he couldn't reasonably go below a $4 million hit and that what he was looking for was really pushing it. Aside from it simply being far more than fair to go so low in the first place when you're a premier player, one cannot forget all the political BS from the NHLPA these guys have to contend with, whether you think it's right or wrong. While I don't remember it being said directly by anyone from the Hossa camp, I have to imagine that it would at some point be a factor. After all, this contract would've been signed a year after Jeff Finger's 4-year $3.5 million deal. I know some people around here thinks that they're paid enough, no one can really blame Hossa for drawing some lines in the sand with the Wings. Again, based on multiple things he and Holland said about the numbers, it's real hard to say Hossa wasn't being more than fair and accommodating in trying to find a number the Wings could afford and he could justify to himself and the anyone in the NHLPA looking over his shoulder. And like I've said, I'd say Hossa at $5 million >>> Flip+Hudler and I'd go so far as to say as Hossa at closer to $6 million >>> Flip+Hudler+(fill in maybe a Bertuzzi-sized blank perhaps). Don't forget that the cap has continued to go up. Signing Hossa at $4.5 million for example might seem rough by the end of his career, but it might be just right or even a bargain depending on how the cap goes, and it's likely to keep going up.

So can we start a campaign to try and trade for Hossa in the off-season??? After all, Chicago is going to HAVE to shed salary somewhere. I don't know if Hossa has a NTC or NMC, though I hope he does in this case as he could then say he'll only play for Detroit making a trade slightly easier. Considering they've got guys like Campbell that simply aren't tradeable, if they want to trade a guy to create a lot of space, Hossa's the easiest guy to move, even if it's too a division rival! I HAVE A DREAM!!!!!!!!!! It's time to right our wrongs and bring Hossa back to Detroit!!!