gcom007

We got a real good idea of what the team would look like without Flip this year. The verdict? He's for the most part inconsequential. In fact, the team had their best stretch of time when he was OUT of the lineup.

True story. Especially considering the cap keeps rising a bit each year. You look at the market price of some of these mid-level guys and you think (and I forgot this but you're right) Hossa would've signed here for actually a lot less than he signed for in Chicago......lasdfjkjkl;asdfsdfjkl....PAIN AND ANGUISH!!!!!!

HOOOOOOOSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Again! Again! HOOOOOOOOOOSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I do understand that, and it's cause for some concern, though how much and towards who is worth considering. Honestly, as much as I love the Franzen deal, there's an element of it that scares me too. Franzen's a guy who's really just become a star, and he's also a guy who's dealt with quite a few injuries already (before this year). On top of that, he plays a game that's a bit more physical in nature when he's in front of the net, and that style of play is likely to increase for him once Holmstrom's gone. How will that wear on his body? I don't know, and it concerns me a bit. I would be a lot less concerned with Hossa because even if his scoring drops off, he's still such a valuable all around player and I think it's likely that he'll be a more durable player than Franzen due to style differences in their games. But really, though no one intimately involved in the deals would admit it obviously, I doubt any of these guys will play until the end of their contracts... At the end of the day, I think guys like Hossa, especially for their dollar value, are no-brainer moves. Sure, long-term contracts can be precarious, and it's a gamble, but so is the short term game. I'd rather know I was gambling on a genuine superstar like Hossa and even a budding star like Franzen (especially for <$4 million) than sign all these middle of the road guys that are always hit or more for $3-4 million a season. Superstars like Hossa and Franzen make the $1 million guys play like $3 million guys as well, so at the end of the day, to me, I'm going to gamble long-term on the surefire stars.

I would trade Flip for a roll of toilet paper if it meant signing Hossa. No no...I can do better... I would trade Lebda for a roll of toilet paper and then trade Flip for Lebda if it meant signing Hossa.

This idea hurts more and more with each passing game.

I couldn't agree any more, at any point in time. I've said numerous times, letting a truly elite superstar player like Hossa who's GREAT at both ends of the ice when he could've been signed for around $5 million a year was nothing short of INSANE!!! Pure insanity. I said it numerous times throughout last season, you do what you have to do and move who you have to move to keep a player like Hossa at $6 million let alone around $5 million...

In about as many games, Hossa has almost as many goals as Flip has points. I can't wait to see your rebuttal to that.

Wow. Babcock sounding a little more honest than usual. No "we did a lot of things right" and more "we didn't play hard at all, we didn't look like a team desperate to make the playoffs in any way, shape or form. It's unacceptable. It's not tolerated. It's crazy to play like that."

Did you read what I read earlier about a shakeup in the off-season as opposed to now?

It's odd hearing you say that seeing as Flip would've been the obvious first guy to go if we kept someone like Hossa. And not surprisingly, I would've made the move. As I've said numerous times, Flip's strengths (and they are great strengths in many ways) don't help with enough of the teams weaknesses, or really the teams biggest weakness, that being scoring. We've got one pure goal scorer who's consistent in Franzen. Bert and Homer are goal scorers but they're older, inconsistent, and especially in the case of Holmstrom, fragile. Dats and Z can score goals but they're not necessarily "shoot first" guys. As much as I think Hossa would've helped this team down the stretch (and for years to come), I really think this season would've been a lot different even with Sammy. I'm not even thinking injuries here or considering that Sammy's having a better year than most expected him to. I'm just talking balance in general as far as roles go. I mean, hell, for all the s*** we gave Sammy while he was here, the guy SHOT THE PUCK!!! Even the crap shots can help create opportunities and get the other team on its heels a bit. And there's no question that the same and more times ten stands for Hossa's ability to SHOOT and SCORE all while playing a great 2-way game and being an excellent play-maker as well. *sigh...

COMEBACK! ......... I know people are going to be saying stuff like the goalies letting in so many goals and digging us holes kills our momentum, and there's certainly some truth to that. But there's also this silly idea of Detroit getting on the board early and putting other teams on their heels and giving the goalies some confidence and a cushion. I know it's crazy, this whole looking at 20 guys who dress as opposed to just focusing on 1 guy and all.............

We can't score with any consistency to save our lives. We've had great goaltending for much of the year with Howard and still lost plenty of games. Why? SCORING! It's easy to look at a game like this and get on the goalies, but it's a silly thing to do when 18 other guys on the bench aren't coming even close to pulling their weight.

Classic example of Flip's shooting ability, or lack thereof. And WOW! 6-2!!! SWEEEEEEEET!!!!!!!!!!!

I was really surprised to see him go. You'd think they'd at least wait until camp to see if he learned anything from this year and addressed some weaknesses in the off-season. I don't think he was given a fair shot generally either with so much pressure being put on him in his rookie year. He was a good call-up and suddenly he's expected to become a big offensive contributor because we lost so many FA's in the off-season. In my opinion, that's just a bit too much to put on most rookies.

I really think that they've all but thrown in the towel on this year. It's not as if they're not going to do all they can to win and make a run of it, but with so little cap space and elevated deadline pricing, perhaps it made more sense to Holland to wait until the off-season to unload anyone we'd have to unload to get anyone worthwhile. We have guys we could and probably should move, but your options are extremely limited with no cap space. Everything's gotta be dollar for dollar which is tricky and again, limiting. So basically, I'm not surprised or really upset that nothing happened today. But admittedly, it's becoming harder and harder to care about this season every day, so I don't think about it much. Now, if he doesn't shake this team up and address some of the glaring scoring/chemistry issues this team has in the off-season, then I'll probably have an aneurysm. There'll be no excuse for standing by idly when they've got more cap space to play with and a crap season to reflect upon. But somehow even that wouldn't shock me at this point...

Good to see that our "trades" are helping this team so much. I've been saying for awhile, I don't like the chemistry of this team when healthy. Good on paper in many ways, but simply lacking in any punch on the ice. And the more we struggle, the more the team just seems to look more and more defeated. The whole "bad habits" thing that Babcock has referred to many times this year just keeps coming up. Vancouver's a good team, no doubt, but this is just another sloppy game by the Wings in a long series of sloppy games.

I've thought all along this year that he'd be back for one more year to retire with Draper. He may not add a ton these days, but for the money, it's not a bad deal. He's still a solid odd guy in/out who's not a liability and he provides a veteran presence that you can't really minimize, especially with this team. I don't think it's going to be as easy as some think to put together a solid team front to back again come the off-season, and at that point, Maltby for around the league minimum probably won't seem like such a bad deal after all. We'll see how it all really goes, but I really do think he'll be back and that he'll retire with Draper next year.

I don't disagree, and I'm all for "maintaining" in many ways. I don't expect to have a Hossa fall into our lap every year while Hank and Franzen are still making next to nothing. But I don't think Holland planned well for Hank and Franzen making the big bucks. As opposed to maintaining a balanced team, he basically sat on the sidelines and watch the team fall apart in the off-season last year. There wasn't much maintenance to it so much as scrambling done after losing all your free agent's in a "shocking" turn of events. I don't know if there's anyone better at getting the big guys to sign great contracts for the TEAM. But the last few years he seems to be struggling with the mid-level guys. It's been overshadowed by having guys like Zetterberg and Franzen playing for such low contracts, but now that he's got to get creative with a whole team, some of the deals and the chemistry aren't looking so hot, and again, to call last off-season a disaster certainly isn't an understatement, but it's not much of an overstatement either. It'll be a huge test in the coming off-season as he'll have more opportunities to get creative with more cap space opening up and possibly some guys retiring. Furthermore, we're well into the cap era now so there won't be any surprises. It's put up or shut up. You adapt or you fail. There's something to be said for a conservative approach to be certain, but there's also something to be said for being progressive and aware of an ever-changing world. Sitting back again will only hurt this team more than they were hurt after last year.

I agree. While I don't expect anything, I'm not opposed to a move and would likely try to make one myself as I simply don't like or believe in the chemistry on this team as is. There won't be any splashes and that's fine, but some tweaks to balance things out and possibly achieve better chemistry would be nice. And I think Holland screwed up fairly bad this last off-season. I liked the recover with Williams/Bert/Eaves, but watching so many guys walk and being wholly unwilling to make moves in order to ice the best team for the money really bit this team in the ass. I don't know if I believe him when he said he didn't anticipate all of our FA's leaving, but the bottom line is that it happened and he sat back and watched. And to be honest, I was really surprised they announced the Franzen deal without the Hossa deal. Right before the playoffs, you send a message to Hossa that they likely won't be bringing him back. Why? If he signed both of the guys, maybe announce the deals, but maybe not too. Agree to terms if you can and save the announcement for the summer. If you do announce signings, some guys will know they're gone after the season, but no clear lines will be drawn and you'll have everyone working not only for a Cup but for a spot on next years roster. Guys like Sammy would assuredly see the writing on the wall, but I think you had to figure he was gone any way things went down so no real concern there. He wanted a payday. Ugh...I could go on and on about all this, but the whole situation really frustrated me. I think letting Hossa go when you could've had him at a $5 million deal was nothing short of insane. Ten times more so after losing everybody else that he did! I don't think he's being honest about this teams needs, and I hope this season has taught him a lesson on the matter because our scoring is flat out embarrassing. "Maintained" is a good word to describe Holland's stance the last few years, but now that the cap is really weighing heavy, he needs to get a little more open-minded. Some guys we could stand to let go to strengthen other areas. Some guys you have to just write off from the start (Sammy for example). And when you have a great opportunity to sign a superstar like Hossa for $5 million, you do what you have to do on all these fronts to make that happen. If he plays it the same way this off-season, next season could be even rougher than this one. Our saving grace this year has been Jimmy Howard and unfortunately, based on how things go for so many young goalies, we have to be honest and recognize that there's a reasonable chance that he'll struggle next year. If he and Osgood struggle in the regular season and our scoring doesn't improve (or gets worse, possible...) this season will feel like the fun season...

I agree about last season especially with Hossa. That team was outstanding and hurt more by injuries throughout the playoffs than anything. But landing Stuart for draft picks the year prior was an outstanding "playing it safe" move though! And much of the rest I concur with as well. Trade Bertuzzi? Really??? Reactionary silliness, and the "reaction" is unwarranted all things considered. And while it's really of no matter now, wasn't it "inferred" that the Federov idea was there but didn't get far because Babcock didn't like him? In any event, I don't know what the Wings could really pull off this year given our cap situation. We can't trade picks for salary with no cap space and there's only a few guys that have any trade value that the team could reasonably let go. I feel fine with our defense, but as I've said, I'd love another mid-level guy more focused on scoring. We can afford to give up some 2-way depth for a more one-dimensional scorer right now. I don't think either way the goaltending goes will be a make it or break it for the team, though in my gut I still tend to think Osgood will end up getting the nod (and a short leash...) given his experience and the last two runs, and if he plays at all like he did in the last couple post-seasons, it's a big positive. So a bit more scoring in the lower mid-level range of deals would be nice, but I'm fine with the rest. But...I don't expect anything to happen, though there's no reason to believe that Holland couldn't stumble upon a deal that makes sense and pull the trigger. It's unlikely, but not impossible.

Is the Finnish/Flip contingent enjoying this game?

I'm glad a few people are honest enough to realize that we all say stupid s*** from time to time. People need to lighten up and stop being so damn touchy. I think Mike Milbury's a f***stick for many reasons, but I don't care that he said "Eurotrash." Sure, fine, whatever...I'm sure the Russians have some choice words for us and so on and so on...who gives a s***?!? Seriously, anyone upset needs to lighten up, and anyone wanting to throw him under the bus for it just because they don't like him need to find more important things to think about.

I feel bad for Homer but this is definitely a good thing for the Wings...