gcom007

You know, you're right. That will be a HUGE move for this team... Lebda's one of the few guys we've had around that deserves at least 25-30% of the criticism he gets. Maybe more... And that actually says a LOT.

The league is evolving every day. The economics of yesterdays cap years are profoundly different than even today's cap economics, and we're talking about a four year context here. It's nowhere near as easy to pull a deal out of a hat as it was a few years ago simply as more teams are competitive than ever. There's only 1 team in the West that has no chance, and 2 teams with minimal chance. That leaves 12 teams with legitimate shots at making the top 8 and 2 more that could get in the running real quick. And in the East you've got 5 points separating 13th place and 8th place. The top 5 teams are probably locked up as they've got a ten point lead, but there's 8 teams fighting for the 3 remaining playoff spots with a point range of 54-60. Again, 13th place - 54 points and 6th place - 60 points. It's going to be a real tough year for teams looking to make moves as not a lot of teams are going to be unloading guys when they still stand a chance to make the playoffs. And on top of that, that's more teams looking for the missing piece. I agree that in many ways Leino got a raw deal, and I do think it was unfair to expect so much out of Leino in his rookie year. I called this rough season before the season even started. I also thought he'd stick around until at least the next training camp, but again, there's only so much you can do with the cap and I don't think anyone really thought Lilja would be back this season. All things considered, it was a necessary move. Not a great move or a bad move, but one that ultimately had to be done. Not much else you can really say about it.

Probably a little bit of everything you said and 90% coincidence.

This should also tell you that the Wings likely won't be making any major trades. They probably would've tried to do it now as opposed to later. Just as Kenny said, any trades we might see will be dollar for dollar most likely, as in, don't get too excited.

RICH, PROFESSIONAL ATHLETE'S DRINK AND GO OUT TO NIGHTCLUBS?!?!?!?!?!! I THINK MY WORLD IS CAVING IN!!!! I NEED A BAG!!! JUST GOTTA BREATHE....... Come on people. Nothing to see here.

This trade is most demonstrative of this team operating more in the short term than long term. If this were a pre-Cap year, they'd have given him another shot in camp. But you can't dump a guy off the roster who's produced in the "here and now" to take a chance on a guy who's s*** the bed all year long. Goes to show you how strong the LGW's prognosticators are, once again... "Leino will score at least 25-30 goals this year!!! You're crazy if you think otherwise! Screw Sammy, Hossa and Hudler!!! We've got Leino!!!"

I hope Leino doesn't do well just so we can avoid three years of "KENNY f***ED UP!!!" Sorry, I'm sensitive after so many jokers flipping out over the Quincey deal...

Thank goodness...enough of this speculation bulls***...

Rafalski's going nowhere fast. He may take a ton of s*** around here but he's still too valuable of a part to trade away. He'll retire a Wing.

Even if we by some miracle land Kovalchuck, I still would have rather made the necessary moves to keep Hossa.

Only one thing is absolutely clear based on this information: he absolutely doesn't want to play for Atlanta next season. Everything past that is pure speculation.

Oh, and it's probably a safe bet to say that we're not getting Kovalchuck. Holland sometimes has a few aces up his sleeve, but he hasn't been a very active deadline player in awhile and I think the likelihood of him making good on the .5-1% chance of us landing him are pretty slim. And I for one don't give a s***.

It did take a monumental effort of sorts when you consider how many injuries our team had (before even thinking about the numerous one's that went unmentioned much of the time like Hossa and Datsyuk who was far more hurt than we knew!) in the playoffs. It was unreal that we got to game 7 when you really think about all the setbacks this team had due to injury. In that sense, I think last season was almost more of a success story than when we actually won the Cup the year before. We should've won that year. We were lucky to be in the Finals last year.

I'm keeping my Tatar hopes down low, but I really, really, really am hoping he surprises me........... Who am I kidding? I can't wait to see what this kid can do in the next couple years. I'm excited.

He's overpaid. We need goals. He's the only player we have with any trade value (a compliment to him when you really think about it) that we could trade. This looks real simple to me if the right opportunity opens up to bring in a guy with goal scoring ability. It's not that he hurts us, but he's making too much money to be a 10 goal scorer on this Detroit Red Wings team. The player that Flip is today is solid, but what he brings to this team is ultimately inconsequential to success. We haven't been a significantly better team when it comes to offense or defense when he's in the lineup. We're still struggling to score goals, though we're not giving up many goals. We don't win or lose any more when he's in the lineup. He doesn't address this teams biggest needs. I'm not saying "get rid of him at any cost" at all. I'm saying if a move opens up that makes sense when looking at this team's needs, they should pull the trigger and not look back. We need goals.

I wasn't around to be the "only guy who thinks Flip is a weak offensive player" (-Z and D for the C) so I guess no one had anything to say about tonight. This is why I have no problem trading Flip for a guy with even just a little bit of a scoring touch. Something that one could liken to a "descent shot" would be nice as well... We need offense. Not defense and missed chances. It hurts way too much night after night these days.

So I guess that ended okay...bang bang!

I love Patrick Eaves. Really, really love Patrick Eaves.

So the usual?

What in the hell is up people? I missed the first period because I was getting mind-f***ed by Lost and then reveling in the aftermath. Umm, 2-2 after 20 eh? Hmmm...what happened?

Hmm... I'm not high on his offensive skills by any means, but he's a real good, maybe even great defensive player. Generally speaking, I really like those guys, but I think we've got enough forwards that can play defense well and not near enough guys who can score goals. When you add in his cap hit which I've felt was too high from the second I heard the contract announced, I veer to the side that says "make the move" IF it would strengthen this team. Realistically, we could use more goals. If we could move him for a guy that had more pure offensive skills at the sake of the defense, I'd be fine with that. After all, our best defensive stretch was when he was injured. It's not that he doesn't help, it's just that he's fairly redundant in that role on this team. He's certainly not one to just throw away, but if the opportunity came up to add some goals, I think he's the easiest guy of value that you can trade. And personally, I think he'd have a lot more success on another team (especially one weaker on 2-way forwards) where he could play a bigger role. He'll always be the guy behind Zetterberg and Datsyuk here and on top of that, the whole redundancy thing doesn't help him stick out much either. I still think they should've traded him and kept Hossa. That's a move I was behind then and would be behind now. More than ever after this dry, dry season...

Dom never once dealt with anything close to what Osgood has dealt with this year and Dom played a lot worse at the start even. They were practically back to back in starts for the majority of the season. When Hasek was here, the "hot hand" of Osgood justified him at least getting regular starts, but by seasons end they were pretty much even in games played. Babcock gave him every benefit of the doubt under the sun and never sat him for long stretches of time. He never put Dom down in the media and incessantly supported Dom as the starter come playoff time. There was never a question of Babcock's support of Hasek at all. That has absolutely not been the case this year for Chris Osgood. Not even close. And I think you minimize Osgood's mental strength. Again, you don't last in Detroit as long as he has and win as many games if you're weak mentally, especially under Babcock and Bowman. And while I don't necessarily believe it to be totally true, or at least as big of a deal as some made it out to be, back then the suggestion was that Babcock had to be so supportive in order to "coddle" Hasek, who always had to be the number one guy or he'd lose it and flip out. I think realistically, everyone's got ego's, Dom and Osgood included. But also to some extent, I think what you interpret as "strong-minded," many people, former teammates included, interpreted as him being "self-centered." The whole not caring thing had something to do with screwing teams over a few times as well. As far as rust in the beginning of the season, he played through training camp and then got a lot of starts in the beginning. There was never a time this season before he got the flu where he sat for any significant period of time. And I'm not saying this to take away from Howard so much as to say we don't know how Osgood would've looked if he was in the groove playing behind the team once it tightened up defensively. Remembe, in the beginning of the season when Osgood was far better, the defense was as bad or worse than they've been lately. With all the injuries, particularly to the offense, we ended up finally tightening up on defense to compensate for decreased scoring and that's also around when Osgood got sick. Again, I think Howard's been great and you can see all over that I'm never shy about giving Howard a lot of praise and support. I just don't think Osgood's been given even close to a fair chance to show what he's capable of, and while I still think right now you've got to give Howard more starts, Osgood still deserves a chance. And I've not contradicted myself. I'm into winning, but the end of the season result means far more to me than the day to day stuff that most here sweat over. I'm not worried about making the playoffs and never have been. And I also think with a bit more of a regular rotation, Osgood would be more than capable of giving us a chance to win every night even if outplayed by Howard at times. I don't think the difference in wins and losses would be dramatically different either way, but I actually think we might have more wins if Osgood got more starts as I think Howard's rougher games likely have a lot to do with fatigue, likely more mental than physical. And when it comes to the playoffs, if Osgood can do what he's done, there's no question in my mind that I want him as the starter as I think he's absolutely going to give us the best chance to go far. And to do that, he's gotta play more, even if Howard outplays him at times. So rookie in the playoffs or Cup-winning veteran who's been the best playoff goalie the last two years? You talk about risks and winning. This should be easy. In the playoffs, you go with Osgood. That means Osgood needs to play. The whole "stop sweating about the playoffs" is a different conversation. The goalies are irrelevant in my point of view on that matter.

I can see why you'd think that lately, but early on in the season, again, I say go watch some of those replays. Look up the GDT's. Look up the news articles. People noted again and again that while Osgood wasn't playing as lights out as he did in the playoffs, he was far and away better than last year and at times great. This whole "Osgood has looked terrible" thing crept in through December when he wasn't even really playing. And again, I can see why you'd think he looks rough lately, but I really think a lot of it has to do with rust, though there's another thing and probably a bigger thing. I haven't brought it up much because I obviously don't know for certain, but I can't help but think that he's really frustrated and mentally out of it the way things have gone this season. He's never been one to vent to the press, even through the Bowman years. I think that really speaks to the level of frustration, and I don't think that's good for a goalies head. And I do blame Babcock for fostering that. How many Cup winning goalies who are top 10 in all-time NHL wins, coming off a Conn-Smythe worthy playoff performance do you think would appreciate reading in the media again and again that he's not starting because they need to win and Howard is the guy. And then hearing, "make the most of an opportunity," and getting one game every now and again, at one point going a month without a start. And whether you remember or not, Osgood knows he wasn't playing bad before he went down with the flu and Jimmy took over. (And again, I say, look it up if you don't recall.) Babcock has basically thrown him under the bus, and Osgood has clearly been more frustrated by it than he ever has in his career. Now, none of this takes away with the blatant fact that Howard has played outstanding in that stretch, but I don't think Osgood is wrong for thinking he ought to get a few more starts here and there. And for the record, while I assume this is the case, right or wrong, I don't think it's right that Osgood's let this stuff get to his head so much. I don't think Babcock's right for pushing the issue so far either though. But I think when you combine rust with frustration, (and possibly on top of that, the looming 400 win mark which can screw with guys heads) you aren't likely going to get an accurate picture of how capable or "done" Osgood is. It's always been said that goalies are a strange bunch. Osgood's always been one of the more "normal" one's but I think this year has really tested his patience more than ever before. Perhaps Osgood is more of a "goalie" than we all thought, but that doesn't make him "done." At some point he needs to get some consistent starts, and not under the unnecessary pressure of "play lights out or sit on the bench." After all, he heard that early on after coming back from the flu, had a great game, and Howard started the next 6 or 7 games anyways. He just needs to get some starts because he IS Chris Osgood, and even if there's a chance of him playing like the Chris Osgood of the last couple years in the playoffs, we need to get him ready. I was never a Hasek fan (before he came to Detroit and more so after, for personal "real-life" reasons not worth discussing) and thought Osgood outplayed him in 2008, but I said then too, if Hasek can be the Hasek of the past, you've got to get him ready and give him the chance. He's earned that. Osgood, more than Hasek even in this city, has earned that chance as well.

Oh, and based on your little Datsyuk vs. Flip thread, this statement is ridiculous.

There's definitely still more than that... If it makes you feel any better, I don't hold that shot against him or anything else. Sometimes you just miss s***. It happens. I don't think it was a hard shot to make though as you suggested, though I don't think it's demonstrative of "Flip's terrible shot" that people were blaming it on. I do think he has a bad shot, but it had nothing to do with missing that goal. It was just a fluke thing that happens to lots of guys now and again. And seeing as I'm not really surprised nor one who expects Flip to be a solid finisher, I wasn't heartbroken or shocked when he whiffed on the the breakaway, and I don't think the hook had anything to do with it. I don't get down on him in games like this because I don't have elevated expectations of his offensive skills. The reason he's subject to a good deal of bashing from more than just a handful of people as you suggest is because people expect too much out of him based on previous experience with other guys, his contract and the amount of minutes he gets in a scoring role. To me, it always boils down to my fundamental analysis of the guy: average at best offensive skill set, exceptionally strong defensive abilities. He's got descent hands at times but has never been able to find it in him to really finish plays consistently. How many times has he made a descent move only to cough up the puck before even getting to the net, failing to get a descent shot off or just plain failing to even get a shot off? His shot is pretty rough for that matter as noted. He's an average passer; not especially good or bad. He oftentimes gets out-muscled and coughs up the puck in the offensive zone along the boards. If the D plays him to the outside, he's not going to get very far. And he does fall, and he falls a lot especially along the boards as previously mentioned. That doesn't make him a bad player, but if you accept those things, it's not so frustrating when you see him in games like today. No one gets too pissed when other guys botch opportunities because people have more grounded expectations. Being a stronger defensive player isn't a bad thing at all either. Like I've said many times, his defensive skills are great and I think he could be a huge asset to a team that struggled more on defense. Again, my only beef with him as a Wing is his contract and lack of goals. It's not a personal thing. He's in a tough spot trying to fill a role that I don't think he's suited for in a pressure-filled environment like Detroit. I don't blame him for that.