gcom007

Alright, idea, idea, let's not give up the tying goal in 30 seconds. Alright? 1, 2, 3, GO!

Again, I don't hate Flip, and in my opinion, I am objective in my analysis. That was a good play. He makes nice plays occasionally and I have no problem giving him credit for it. I just don't hype up the average plays nor do I view him as a major offensive force. AND NICK LIDSTROM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't think you can break up the Helm, Draper, Eaves line. They work great together. They might not have quite the scoring potential as the 3rd in some ways, but I don't think we've seen the best from Eaves yet let alone Helm. I think that line will continue to improve offensively. But more so, that line is an incredibly effective line when it's on the ice at both ends. They may not have quite the skill to bury the puck too often, but they'll wear defensemen into the ground too with their work ethic. No line works harder out there. I'll believe it when I see it on that 3rd line. Williams has never been a consistent guy and he's never produced in the playoffs. Miller is the type that has impressed many including myself under the circumstances, but he hasn't been an offensive force by any means and I can't help but think that his contributions will dwindle as the season progresses and his role is minimized. And Flip is not a goal scorer by any means and only an average playmaker. His defensive strength will ensure that the line's not much of a liability in our end, but I just don't see this line being very effective as a scoring line. I'd like to see a guy with more pure offensive skills on that line, even at the expense of defense. It'll be real interesting to watch this team the next week or so as we get guys back. I think we've got a lot of good guys, but I just am not sold on the balance of roles and the chemistry.

Who gives a s***? He stopped a hell of a lot of other chances the whole period. It's so cool to focus on one less-than-stellar play though. I think it's wholly and completely fair to give goalies at the very least one soft goal a game. Even two isn't exactly the end of the world by any means. They happen to everyone and it's lame as hell to hold it over guys heads, especially when they do so many other things right.

Pathetic. I don't care about sticks, when you lose so many games in a row in the way we have, to take a lead at the end of a period and to give it up immediately with your top line out, it's pathetic. This ain't Howard. This team of skaters should be kissing Howard's ass right now as this could've been uglier. BUT NEWSFLASH SKATERS!!! No goalie is going to bail your asses out all game if you keep giving up stupid-ass opportunities. I am happy with Howard in this period, that is it. Team on whole still looked like s***. Good power-play goal too. Flip made a good play, and hopefully that line can build on it. They're going to need all the help they can get down the stretch...

I'm not saying I disagree, but I think the checking line is likely to be a better line in every way than the 3rd scoring line... Miller has been good all things considered, but he's inconsistent at best. Williams can be good but has also been very inconsistent throughout his career. Flip doesn't score goals and just isn't an offensive force. That line will just not be effective much at all. Just like at Flip/Miller/Bert, arguably a better line with Bert instead of Williams. Even the Flip lovers will tell you it sucks... I think you either need to try and make a deal at the deadline for a moderately better play-maker in exchange for defensive depth or well, yeah, there's really not much of a better option with our current guys. So trade or weak-ass 3rd line...

I think you may have missed the point... *cough #93 *cough

Cujo was another guy who the fans ripped on tremendously but in the playoffs, the guy was the only reason the team had a prayer. He was clearly the best player on the ice for the Wings. I think Osgood will be fine when it matters. It would be really silly to doubt him at this point after last year, I don't care how you spin it. As far as goal scoring, it's definitely our biggest issue. While Franzen will help, I think we could've easily afforded to deal Flip to throw an extra million (matching what he signed for in Chicago) at Hossa to keep him here and use the other $2 million to sign Bert and Eaves. I like that team a whole hell of a lot better than this team now. We've got too many two-way forwards with strengths that are heavily weighted towards defense. I would be fine with a lateral trade at the deadline that traded some defensive depth among our forwards for offensive depth. Nothing major, no Kovalchuck BS, but just someone who thinks offense first as opposed to defense first. As far as defense, getting Lilja back will bring a lot of balance to our defense. Lilja's a guy who doesn't have to be great to be a really effective part of this team. He figured out his role and worked hard to exceed every expectation required of it. And let's hope some of Lilja's "stay at home" sense will wear off on Ericsson. But when you look at what the pairings will be, you'll have a guy on every pairing that is typically real sound in our end and a guy who's more offensively oriented. Lidstrom Rafalski Stuart Kronwall Lilja Ericsson If they switch in Lebda or Meech for Ericsson, you lose the big shot but you might get slightly, well, ever so slightly less stupid plays in our end...

Yeah, I find it a bit odd that people kept saying that Osgood let in 3 goals on his first 6 shots, but how many goals did Howard let in the night before on his last 5 shots??? I find it funny that some people insist on not only throwing Osgood under the bus over it, but now even Jimmy Howard with epic proclamations suggesting that both of our goalies suck. There's no objective way to look at the situation and not place a tremendous amount of blame on the defense for not giving either of our goalies a chance lately. None the less, I think it makes sense to go with Howard tonight as he has shown himself to be the better goalie lately thus far. I don't think Osgood had much of a chance to get going in the last game, but he hasn't proven that he's going to outplay Howard yet either despite Howard cooling off. I think Osgood should get the next start or the one after that, but if Osgood doesn't win/play outstanding, there's no reason not to keep a rotation going for awhile. Considering Howard hasn't looked as strong lately is all the more reason to keep Osgood going. While I've thought all along that Osgood would get the playoff nod in any event, if you were to go with the rookie, it would be because he was playing outlandishly good the whole way through. I'm not saying he sucks or the defense has helped him at all, but he's absolutely cooled off at this point. I'm not sure if he's just worn out or if that Chicago loss got to his head, but if he's not so hot down the stretch, more than ever you need to have Osgood ready to do his thing in the playoffs again.

I agree! Oh how we love to think the worst of our stars and goalies in Detroit.

Maybe true, but it can be pretty entertaining at times...

Pole. Hilarious. And both should be playing regularly for awhile unless one heats up again, but neither should get long breaks even then.

I just find it odd that the coach that has had no problem stringing up Osgood is defending him in the same game many here are using to suggest that he's finished.

I didn't read the whole thread, but the same Babcock that's had no problem ripping into Osgood this season said the following about last night: "The two power-play goals, he didn't have a chance on those," Babcock said. "Part of it is helping your goaltender out. When your team plays the way it did tonight, I don't think you can evaluate the goaltender. That would be totally unfair." So, ummm, huh???

Thank you for clarifying that for me! I had no idea that I actually never played hockey since shortly after I could walk. I guess I better go see a shrink to sort some s*** out...

Not only the style, but the roles were becoming better filled and more balanced. Right now this team feels like a lot of individuals who may have good attitudes, but they don't each have the right tools to work well as a whole.

It was not very good last night. Watch the game again. They had a couple decent rushes in the 3rd but botched up opportunity after opportunity before that. I think that line lead the team in giveaways collectively.

You definitely tend to veer towards the pessimistic side, but I've got to give you credit for never really annoying me with it. Some guys you just want to slap they're so fickle. Some people you can just tell are more pessimistic and worry-oriented and I think you fall in there. It's not the end of the world and you're never one to shy away from at least discussing the matter reasonably. I try to see the bright side and enjoy the discussion. It works out. No worries.

Count me in. I'm not concerned about making the playoffs either way, but I'm concerned about chemistry down the stretch. I felt that when we were healthy early on we struggled to find chemistry and oftentimes we seemed unbalanced. That feeling went away for awhile though even with injuries and we were winning games. I really liked what the team had going for awhile. I feared then how guys returning from injury would fit in or affect it and at this point, I'm definitely more concerned. I think as healthy team, we will certainly make the playoffs, but I don't know if we'll have the right pieces to really make a run. I think a deadline deal or even two might be required. I'm not talking blockbuster deals at all. Most people would likely think of them as lateral moves at first, but down the stretch I think you'd see why the deals were made. We've got a lot of quality guys, but we don't have all the right holes being filled if you ask me, that is with a healthy squad. They could get it together, but I'm not so sure if they will at this moment.

I gotta go at this too. Now bear in mind, not once have I blamed Howard or dogged Howard about last nights loss and I am really as much of a fan of Howard as I am of Osgood at the end of the day. I was at the game, so I think I have a decent perspective on the matter as well, and I find it hilarious that you mention the flailing as Howard was flailing and flopping all over last night. We were cracking up and comparing it to the days of Hasek as were other people in the section. He knows how to stop the puck no doubt, but it's oftentimes not real pretty. He didn't face a ton of chances or pressure and rarely was called on to make big saves, but he still gave up two goals. By the end though, really, with two minutes left, it's not like it mattered as it was just two goals and we were on our way to a win. Then he gave up 3 in about 5 minutes of game time. And the team in front of him absolutely crumbled, but it wasn't like any of those goals were mind-blowing goals either. It's not like "even the epically-great Howard was fooled!" The defense broke down and Howard had nothing to counter it. Plain and simple. And that's how it's gone. Now again, I'm not dogging Howard on the matter. I think he's cooled off, but that happens. No one's as hot as he was all the time and there are clearly bigger issues than goaltending at play in all of these games. So I still walk away and say no harm, no foul. But the idea that he's fundamentally more sound and stable than Osgood is just laughable. Osgood's got his weak points like any guy, but he's got a lot of fundamental strong points that have carried him through a long career and to multiple Cups. Howard's still very much a rookie with some rough edges. He knows how to stop pucks pretty damn well, but he's still figuring out what to do next with the puck. He'll learn soon enough, but it's definitely not all there yet.

Quite frankly, I think you're way off the mark with your early season analysis. Even in some of those losses, Osgood played great. Go back to the replays, the GDT's, the articles. Osgood certainly had some stinker games (not Toronto though, team was hell and he was sick) but he had a lot of real solid games as well and even great games. I remember two losses in particular in October where the consensus was that Osgood was the only reason we didn't get blown out. I'll tell you flat-out, the tides turned for Osgood when Howard got hot, plain and simple. Osgood never played as bad as Howard simply played great for awhile. Suddenly Osgood is "terrible" and in the process, he starts getting minimal starts and collecting rust and ends up not having the greatest games when he actually gets a start. This just adds fuel to the fire that Osgood sucks and suddenly it morphs not only into Osgood sucking lately, but Osgood sucking all season and not being a regular season goalie. Of course, the whole argument is based on one season, and no one in their right mind (probably not even you!) was suggesting that Osgood was playing even remotely like last season until Howard got hot. He had that stinker game against Buffalo I believe, but followed it up with a shut out and two games with .950+ save percentages. Then he got sick and Toronto happened and he hasn't gotten a chance or a break from anyone since. Again, I think you're really forgetting how absolutely horrible this entire team was in October. The defense looked worse than they have the last few games every game that month. And again, even in some of the losses, Osgood was considered a bright spot. The whole "Osgood can't win in the regular season" only picked up steam again after Howard got rolling. You are forgetting the facts if you think otherwise.

No, I have no idea what the "different" (couldn't resist) is. Maybe you should explain it to me. It sounds really complicated. Maybe you missed the countless people who have done a good deal of blaming Osgood for the loss. And that's basically what the poster I was replying to was doing as well, and thus I replied to it. Do you want to argue about how bad the second line is?

Truth? In who's twisted reality? Again, no one's saying Osgood played great, but you're wanting to string him up for tonight when last night Howard let in 5 goals in a game where he didn't face near as many quality chances, defensive breakdowns or odd-man rushes. But he had to deal with a team that fell apart in the last five minutes while Osgood had to deal with a team that floundered the entire game, still in shambles from last nights disaster. As a fan of the wheel, I'm not going to get hung up on any one guy if they don't deserve it. Neither Howard or Osgood deserve it right now, but jokers like you like to throw lines out there about names on jersey's to support why some guy sucks, but you're the one singling out ONE GUY when there's an entire team out there ******* up on a grand level. So sure, it makes a whole lot of sense to single out the goalie again and again despite the fact that the defense has been terrible and half the time we struggle to score more than 1-2 goals. SURE!!!

Again, Babcock will rip into Osgood without flinching and he said more to defend Osgood than anything. I suppose that means nothing too? Again, I'm not saying Osgood played great, but he didn't lose this game for us by any means, and if you go back and watch those replays, there's a lot of good goals there that in Babcock's words "no goalie has a chance on" and a lot of terrible defensive breakdowns.

Babcock hasn't had a problem doing it though, and he sure didn't tonight. You're not even a good Osgood-hater, do you realize that? You make all these overzealous statements that have absolutely no basis in reality, you blatantly ignore other elements in the game and then all these hyperbolic declarations about Osgood never playing another game again. It's ridiculous. What are you trying to prove?