gcom007

This idea is incredibly exaggerated, generally not true, and it's really getting old. Just another cliche with no merit on the message board these days... "It would cost us points..." "It would cost us points..." "It would cost us points..." Lots of things cost us points!!!!!!! I guarantee you that there's no statistical substance to suggest that this theory is really true, especially when we're talking about a 3rd pairing defenseman!

If Lilja's practicing every day and feeling good, it wouldn't be a disaster, though perhaps he wants to wait until the trade deadline only to keep all options open. but he's a 3rd pairing defensemen and more of a stay at home guy. It wouldn't kill us to start him in the playoffs after being out for the season when on the other hand you risk having to give depth guys away that maybe you don't want to, especially after all of our injury troubles this year. Could he really be so much worse than Meech or Lebda? The worst thing that could happen is he blows it and we go back to Meech or Lebda. Remember, they could probably give him a conditioning stint in GR too, though I'm not sure if that counts against the cap or not at that point. Basically, I'm just saying that while I'm not wholly convinced that his return is imminent, I also am not convinced that Holland wouldn't want to keep it quiet or be as "cautious" as possible for as long as possible due to cap issues and the trade deadline.

You are throwing punches underwater.

Either that or Holland wants him on LTIR until the playoffs...

Right on. People giving Lidstrom s*** are not only ignorant, but entirely disrespectful.

How on earth am I proven wrong when I was saying that people were expecting too much out of Leino. Let's remember the CONTEXT of those discussions to when people were thinking Leino was good for 25-30 goals. I said hell, I'll be THRILLED if he gets 12-15. As in, as thrilled as you would be if Flip scored 100 points. Basically, I didn't think Leino would have the same kind of success he had last year and that he'd have growing pains. He has. Looks like I was right. The "50 points" thing wasn't so much me thinking that he'd get 50 points at all so much as thinking he'd be more likely to do it than Flip, and again, it really was more of a jab at the fanboy-sillyness. Again, think CONTEXT. When I just got through basically saying that I don't expect nearly as much from Leino as some, do you think that I'm actually thinking he's going to get 50 points? No way in hell. But I still think he has tremendously more offensive upside than Flip, and I still think Flip will finish the season at a 40-45 point pace, so it was a really convenient jab.

What if he knows they're still struggling with fairly significant injuries? I think Dats issues boil down to bad luck, but with Z, what if he knows Z's hurting? What if Lids is really hurting for that matter? What then?

I think we would've won the Cup last year if we had Lilja. It wasn't like we lost it because we didn't have him so much, but I think he would've helped put us over the top in the battle.

Who are you trying to prop up here, me or you? I think it's still looking pretty good for me on this one. You'd be better off bringing that up after the 82nd if you could at least say that Flip was at a 50 point pace if not for the injury. Right now, that means nothing as Flip's not at the end of the season yet. My point was that people are expecting too much out of Leino in his rookie year, but he still has far more of an offensive upside than Flip. I still stand by that adamantly. I didn't think it then nor do I think now that Flip will finish the year at a 50 point pace. And besides, that was blatantly more of a jab at Flip's lack of offensive upside anyways. "Connect the dots." Get it??? Be sure to hang on to that one for April, it could be rich...

Thank goodness for the Olympics! Perhaps we can avoid it this year. I'd say we deserve that much this year...

Well, like I said, I don't know what's up with Z. I think there's definitely still some physical issues holding him back. Only time will tell there. But getting Flip and Cleary back and us not looking much better doesn't surprise me. Both are solid, but neither is even close to a game-changer. Again, I think Kronwall's been the toughest loss so far. Franzen's really right there, and the way Holmstrom's been scoring, you can't ignore him either, though I tend to think his impact will be diminished down the stretch due to the physical strain on his body. Those are the guys though that can be game-changers. Cleary's good for a goal now and then but he's not a consistent guy. He's solid. You need guys like him but he's not going to change the face of the team either. Flip is not going to give you many goals and is a redundant defensive force so you can't expect him to take the team over the top either. And Ericson? He's a rookie, and with the good (shot, some good point work at times) comes the bad (stupid giveaways and play in our end). But he's a rookie so I'm not about to bust his chops too much. But wait until we get the real impact guys back before you assess things. I agree, we don't look much better since December, but the difference is, I thought it would be like that all along especially given the way guys like Eaves and Miller have stepped up to play bigger roles. It minimizes the middle guys impacts coming back substantially.

I've never said he doesn't work hard, but that doesn't make his work consequential to this team. Draper outworked Flip and then some every night in his day. Everyone used to say, man, if that guy just had some hands he'd be amazing as he's got all the work-ethic in the world. Draper's a great guy, but he doesn't put up a lot of points, and thus he's been paid (though he's quite overpaid lately too if you ask me) accordingly. He's also given minutes accordingly. Flip's supposed to be a scoring line center, with 2nd line potential according to some at that. His numbers don't line up with that. You have the audacity to come in here and say that Dats should be benched and his minutes given to Flip. You then say Flip's got as many points as him since he's returned. I'd bet a fine amount of money on nearly every single one of Datsyuk's points being far prettier and far more "playmaker" oriented than Flips, and I think you could then trace gametape and find at least 3-4 great scoring opportunities that Dats has created out of nowhere for every point he's gotten recently. No one gets them all, but Dats has been unlucky lately. He'll come around if he keeps working hard. There's another couple things I almost want to count and keep track of through a GDT just for you. I'd love to count how many times Flip chokes up the puck in the offensive zone trying to make a play that is beyond his skill set and how many times he simply falls and chokes up the puck. Oh, and how about how many passes does he make that completely miss the target in the offensive zone, especially on the power play? I think you would really enjoy that. Hey, I don't bust Draper's ass too hard because he's generally been paid accordingly to his role (though he's overpaid too). I would be fine with Flip's lack of offensive prowess if we struggled more defensively, if he was signed for around $2 million and if people like you didn't hype him to the heavens. I've never once said he was a bad player or a player that I didn't like on some level. He's just too overpaid to be so inconsequential to the Red Wings success. We'd be better off trading him in an effort to land a scorer. That's what we really need. And please, have the sense to not reply with, "Flip scored a goal tonight!" Yay! 4 now this season..........

I think there are teams playing harder than us, but I absolutely do not think they are better than us for a second. I think some things need to be addressed, don't get me wrong. But we're in the hunt, we've got important guys coming back and we still have around 30 games left. I've got a sneaking suspicion they'll find a way to work it out. Remember February last year? Remember how awful they looked and what their record was? They worked that out, didn't they? Franzen, Holmstrom and Kronwall are absolutely bound to help us score goals far more easily. Kronwall and Lilja returning will help us prevent more goals. That's going to be a good thing for team morale. Getting past the Olympics as a healthy squad headed towards the playoffs will be a real good thing for this team. There's been a lot of bright spots in this period as well, don't forget. Not many people thought Bertuzzi would get going and he's looking like a guy who will be a big help down the stretch. Eaves has come in out of nowhere and earned himself a spot and filled a role quite nicely. Howard's been great for us for awhile now. Helm's continued to improve and impress. These are good things. Lids and Rafs are also starting to look better and produce more, which isn't entirely surprising as Lidstrom's been a second-half player for awhile now. The biggest hurdle of our guys lately has been stupid mistakes in our end and the lack of scoring. A lot of that does go back to Dats and Z, and I'm not sure what to say about that. Maybe both aren't as healthy as they'd like to be. Maybe Z is still finding his stride and it's going slower due to coming back too quick or not being 100%. I think Dats has been far better than many are giving him credit for. He's made a lot of great plays that just haven't lead to goals. They will again more frequently soon enough, I have little doubt. He's still doing a lot of things right, and if you keep doing that, things work out. That's not "blind hope," that's just how life and hockey works. Again, I don't like everything I've seen and my assessment of this game was "this is pathetic." But there's too many things that point towards success down the stretch in my mind for me to be too negative. We'll be fine when it matters.

Wow, I think your obsession just surpassed some of the hardcore Osgood Slappy's of the last few years. I hope you're just trying to get a rise out of people.

Have you noticed the difference in points between, I don't know, 10th and 4th?!? Did you see the chart breaking down how the Wings have been putting up about as many points as any team in the West the last 25 games or so? I think two teams were better by a point or two, or we were tied for second or something.

I'm not saying I like the effort every game, but that doesn't mean that I'm worried down the stretch. I have no doubts that we'll make the playoffs (probably 4th or 5th seed) and I imagine our guys will, umm, find a way to play a full 60 minutes. If they don't, then oh well...it's still not worth flipping out about now.

Yeah, but the point is, it's not going to happen. When we get Kronwall back, and that'll be soon, it'll be huge. Here's an interesting stat for you that means more to me than points and save percentages because it tells you something about the nature of the way the game is going day to day: Before Kronwall went down, we were never shut out. We still had a lot of injuries, but we still were scoring goals and getting things going. Kronwall has become a major part of our offense. We do so much setup work from our end and Kronwall was going when Lids was struggling. When we get him back and we've got 3 guys who can really cycle the puck and get rushes going and make great shots, we won't be getting shut out, and we'll be scoring a lot more goals.

Once again, a rare opportunity when I can agree with you. This loss ain't on Howard any way you shake it. We don't score. That's the number 1 problem. Every game I get more and more frustrated that we didn't do what it would've taken to keep Hossa around...

LOL! Yes. Though I'm scared that he actually meant Kronwall...

Look out, you're about to get railroaded by a guy who thinks we should bench Dats and give Flip his minutes...

Absolutely not. There's still no need to panic. These losses and games can be tough to take, but we're still in the hunt. So long as we're still in the hunt and we're unhealthy, there's no reason to panic. Now if we get healthy, get the guys a few games to get their heads and legs going and then we're still floating around 8th or 9th and losing games like this, then maybe it's time to freak out if that's what you do, or get apathetic if that's what you do. Right now, as tough as it is, I still feel ABSOLUTELY FINE down the stretch.

Well, Franzen, Holmstrom, Kronwall (WILL BE HUGE!!!!!!!), and Lilja...yeah, I'd say that's a pretty big difference, and note, I didn't even throw Williams into that mix... It was a tough loss but don't make it more than it is.

What's amazing about that is Datsyuk at his worst still looks far better out there then Flip playing great (according to you). Datsyuk still makes many great plays out there, they just haven't produced as many goals recently. Kinda like Bert early in the season. He was doing everything right except he just wasn't seeing the back of the net. Then finally things got going. It's fine that you have fanboy love for Flip, but do not be absurd.

Now that's the silliest thing you've ever said.

This is pathetic...