gcom007

Well s***. The Wings can get back to the play of the 1st anytime…

Whew!!! About time we got a break from TO.

That's likely going to be a goal...s***......

Did they forget to sell a section there or something? To Howards right...

Lilja's been skating and he went to a doctor out in Vancouver and apparently had quite a few days with no headaches. I haven't heard anything since that bit of news and it came out awhile ago. If he's back next week or sometime soon, that's ultimately great, but it does put us in cap hell. We go from being $100-200k over after sending Abs down to being close to $1.5 million over.

I think I'd like to enter, because I feel like I can win after last years. But I have to admit, it'd be at the sacrifice of all the artistic integrity in my body. April in the D...??? It's a conceptual nightmare even for a jingle...

Nice Rafs and Bert!!!!!!

That was a real pretty goal. LA gave him all day but Flip definitely made the most of it and waited for the nice shot. Solid.

I'm pumped for this game to start! 40 minutes! I'm thinking that we'll win and I'd like to see a higher scoring game for a change. We could really use a breakout game offensively. It'd be a nice night for Bert to pick up a couple, Dats and Z to get one and I'd love another for Eaves. The more confidence that guy gets, the better he'll become. Howard's going to need to control the rebounds better tonight as L.A. obviously knows how to play that angle against Howard and it's unlikely that he'll be as lucky as he was last time. You don't have games like that every night.

Moving forward as in this season or next? Like I've said, I'm all for giving Leino a chance again next season, but if you had to make a decision to dress Miller or Leino in the playoffs based on how this season has gone, who would you choose? Based on how things have gone, I'd be hard-pressed to choose Leino over Miller this year. If Leino comes into camp next year with the same lack of focus and intensity, weakness and poor skating, I doubt he'll make it out of camp. He's got tons of upside, but the guy really does need to address some things this off-season to bring his game up the NHL level. Luongo rant ahead: And while I agree that the Huet vs. Luongo argument is lacking, I have to say that Luongo sure hasn't proven much in the playoffs when it counts most. I have a hard time even thinking of him as elite still to be honest, especially after that reviling performance last year in a clinching game. Sure, it's one game, but elite goalies making outrageous sums of money do not flounder (and that's putting it nicely...) like that. It's totally unacceptable. The guy's not a rookie and he's yet to make his mark as a playoff goalie. Osgood won a Cup in his 5th season, went further than Luongo's ever gone in his 3rd season, was an All Star and got Vezina consideration. He's never made even close to Luongo money either. No one has ever wanted to think of him as an elite goalie though. Luongo's in his 10th year and he's yet to have even a hint of noteworthy playoff success. He's only made it 2 years out of his 10 NHL seasons! He may not have the Red Wings around him, but with the amount of money he's made and the acclaim he receives, he should be carrying bottom feeders into the playoffs. And again, last year he was absolutely abyssmal when it mattered most. He didn't just lose, he shat his pants, slipped in the mess and fell flat on his face in it. It was an ugly, ugly situation. So clearly to me, people need to look past stats with some of these guys and start thinking about how much consequence they have on a teams success. Thus far, he absolutely has not been enough of a difference maker to be worth the money he makes or the "elite status" he's attained.

This is very true, but give the guy credit for knowing how to at least stop the puck. He has been outstanding at that. Remember L.A.? That game was outrageous because he was as awful as he was amazing. He gave up a million rebounds that accounted for the high shot total, but the guy made 50 amazing stops to counter them all. It was really a fascinating and outrageous game on so many levels in that sense because his strengths and weaknesses were on display front and center. But as a rookie, you've got to be happy about how well he's played and the strengths he's shown. I agree, he has things to work on, and he must work on them if he wants to have long-term success, but hey, it's a good situation right now and you've got to think the Wings will do what they have to encourage him to work on some of the fundamentals in the off-season. If he does that, the guy's got a lot of potential to be a force.

He certainly tends to be pessimistic and on the negative side, but that doesn't necessarily make him totally wrong either. I think he makes the issues out to be a bit more egregious than they really are, but it doesn't negate the fact that there are some rather glaring issues that he could stand to improve on. When he's in his rookie year, it's quite reasonable to think, suggest and hope that he ends up working them out in order to have continued success.

Did it really sound like the Red Wings were so convinced? What did they ever say in the press to suggest that they thought he was even capable of being a backup? They were concerned and unconvinced heading into the regular season. That's a fact. I think Babcock and Holland would both say they are surprised he is doing as well as they were just hoping to get a guy who could be a descent backup the way he played in GR and even through training camp. Look it up if you don't remember.

I wouldn't say that thinking Z and Dats aren't really the sniper types is flaming. They're top-end offensive guys who can score goals and make plays, but they're also as good as anyone in the league in their own end as well. They're complete players you build teams around. But... That's still what kills me about losing Hossa. He had what it takes to be a sniper and could tag-team the role great here with Franzen, and at the same time, he was at least nearly as good as Dats and Z in our end! I still cannot get over losing Hossa who I've always though was one of the top overall players in the game. To think we could have had him for around $5 million......and it was one year we'd really have to get through in terms of the tight cap! And people wonder why I get so frustrated at Flip's contract which I've hated since the second it was announced. If he was paid what he was worth to the Red Wings (around $2 million) we'd likely have had the space to keep Hossa around. So here's Elliot's fantasy: Hawks trade Hossa to Thrashers for Kovalchuck, which won't change the nature of their run this year really but it will get Hossa's contract off their backs. Then in the off-season, the Thrashers trade Hossa (who likely would request a trade) to the Wings for Flip, a defenseman and maybe picks. Losing Flip wouldn't hurt us as we're already strong defensively and Hossa will bring far more scoring as well as solid defense. Flip will thrive in an environment like Atlanta where he can play a bigger role and help shape a defensive-minded game. He's overpaid on this Wings team deep in talent and defensively-minded guys, but he'd be a great value and a real solid addition to a team like Atlanta. Why I think it's not completely outlandish: the Hawks have to know that the Hossa deal is insane for them given the situation they're in. If they could get out of it and do so without hurting their chances this year, I could definitely see them jumping at the opportunity. Hossa probably wouldn't want to play for the Thrashers as he already left, and the Wings would likely be one of the first teams to line up this off-season to sign him to a deal at $5.2 million per season. Thrashers are in the East so he'd probably be shipped West and the Wings could offer a package that would benefit the Thrashers without the long-run commitment to Hossa. Again, a Flip deal with a young defensemen and a pick or two could probably get it done. I can dream, right?

Why do we want Kovalchuck again? I don't think he'd be worth the cap space. I'd rather spread the money around than bank it all on a guy like that. If we really wanted a guy who scored we should've made the moves it would've taken to keep Hossa for around $5 million long term. He would've been a far better value than what Kovalchuck will end up being. I just don't get this at all. This seems so anti-Red Wings to me. Nothing against Kovalchuck, I just don't see the guy as a Red Wing...

I've been one of the one's saying for a long time to not be surprised if he doesn't have a great rookie year, and I also have continually said we should be patient. But as far as this year goes, I really do think it's a wash at this point. I think it's a good wash though in that I think the experience will motivate him to work on his game and his head over the summer and hopefully come in and have a real impressive camp. But I think he's going to need the summer to get everything straight. He'll need to work on his skating and get some strength. That will help his confidence and ideally his drive to succeed after such a disappointing year will help him stay focused to get it all done. It's not a bad lesson to learn in your rookie year if you ask me and I still believe that he can come in and be a solid player for us next season.

This is good to hear, though I do hope Babcock balances things out somewhat more. As I've said, I just don't think pissing Osgood off to high-heavens while letting him get rusty on the bench is a real good idea. I never really felt Osgood's mouthiness was wholly appropriate, but it's hard to blame him the way things were going given Babcock's handling of the situation with the rotation and in the press. He never outrightly attacked Osgood, but he made enough veiled comments and inconsistent statements that reporters then shove back in Osgood's face...you know, it's just not a real easy situation for anyone to deal with, even the usually cool Osgood. Hopefully after the Olympic break things settle down for good...

Yeah...still, the rebounds worry me more long-term, but I agree, his puck control/handling skills definitely need improving especially if they do away with the trapezoid. The way he's played the puck so far this year almost makes me thankful for the trapezoid when Howard's in net. Less space for him to worry about...he's gotten quite adept at doing all he has to to stop shots, but far too often he just doesn't seem to know what to do with the puck aside from blocking it.

Not too many were really calling for Osgood's head, and no one can honestly deny that Howard's having an outstanding rookie year. Granted, that doesn't naturally equate to long-term success, but it's most-certainly impressive none the less.

Like many goalies, Howard has a lot of the technical skill and physical ability to be a solid goaltender for a long time. He definitely wouldn't be the first rookie goalie to have a strong first season only to disappear in subsequent years. That said, I think the key to his long term success is him working out some rather glaring issues in his fundamentals. His positioning is still not as strong as it could be which leads to having to be more acrobatic and "hopeful" in a Hasek-like manner. It's worked thus far, but at this stage in career, there's no reason not to work it out. The other thing is the biggest thing, and that's rebound control and general puck control which is quite frankly poor. Eventually teams will learn how to capitalize on that more and more so it needs to get worked out for long-term success. But I stress, these are both things that he can absolutely work out through the off-season and into next season and I have no doubt that the Wings will push that. The other thing of course is simply how his head holds up. A goalie can have all the physical tools, but if he can't keep a cool, steady head, he's screwed. Thankfully again, he's got one of the best guys to learn from sitting next to him in the locker room everyday in Chris Osgood. And also, we'll have to see how he plays in the playoffs when all the pressure is on. That's the biggest thing for a goalie and it really could change everything, for better or for worse. So I think he's definitely got a good shot of being a real go-to guy in this league. If he works out a couple of fundamental things and keeps a steady head, I think Howard's as good of a bet as any to at the very least be the next long-term Wings goalie.

LOL! I mean, that'd be great, but umm, very much impossible.

Wow, semantics, wow. I still think he'd have to be real lucky to hit 50 because he's proven to be streaky. And that's not a new suggestion either, and one that I certainly didn't originate. It's one that's well backed up though by his game to game numbers each season. And I'm sorry, but an improvement of 4 points with a couple more games played last year to boot doesn't really amount to outer-worldly improvement. From .46 PPG average to .50 PPG average! .04 PPG average improvement! YAY!!! I would try to avoid that line if you're trying to making a solid point about him improving. What I put down is his contract and your exaggerated suggestions based on theories of events that have yet to occur. You take it as a personal offense that I think a 40-45 point guy who's more of a defensive-forward isn't likely to be a 60-80 point guy. That's not me putting him down, that's me interpreting what I see and the numbers he's put up thus far. I never said it was bad for Flip so much as that those numbers don't deserve such a nice contract. As far as sheer performance goes, it's not bad in the context that I frame him in. It's bad in your context because you've placed him up on a higher pedestal. So again, I think by seasons end he'll average out to be a 40-45 point guy (proportional to 82 games). If he's able to keep some streaks up, he might get lucky and land close to the 50 point spot (proportional to 82 games). As he's been known to be streaky, I think it's more likely that he'll end up at the 40-45 point spot especially once we're healthy and he loses power play time. I guess we'll see what happens, but if it goes down like I'm saying again, can you please back off of your stance a bit next season?

I'm no Lebda fan but I agree, it's real tough to ship off a defensemen right now. As much as Meech or Lebda is the obvious choice in a perfect world, we need them too much right now and neither makes much money. However, if something were to go down involving one of them... I think what's likely to happen if anything is Meech attached to a forward for a goal scorer, and possibly a Leino-bonus thrown in if they're already fed up with him. I know there will be at least a few posters who will gasp, scoff and retaliate over this, but I think if Flip doesn't start scoring more goals and continues at a 40-45 point (adjusted for 82 games), he could be moved as he's redundant and relatively expensive proportional to his output. Even once Franzen, Holmstrom and Kronwall return, we still could use more goals and Flip hasn't shown himself to be capable of putting them up. We're solid enough on D without him as well. I still think it's unlikely though given our money situation, though if they packaged Meech in and were comfortable having Kindle or Janik as the spare 7th if needed, it could work. You're still talking about a hair over $4 million in return max if Leino's in the mix, but if we were able to find a guy who could score some goals, I'd feel pretty good with Helm/Williams/Draper sorting out centering duties for the 3rd and 4th lines and Abs mixed in again once the playoffs start. I have no problems with Miller or Maltby in the lineup over Leino and I like our 3rd line better with another goal-scorer as opposed to Flip's lack of goal production and average playmaking ability. I'm not holding my breath though... It's going to be a tough decision any way it goes.

Then I truly apologize for lumping you in with that crowd. I won't pretend that I am not somewhat defensive about my opinion, but bear in mind, I think it's fair to say that I come in here and try to have civil, logical discussions with people. I make every effort to articulate myself and backup what I'm saying. I make every effort to not resort to name-calling of other posters and players. I try to keep it reasonable in conduct and in discussion. Every year, I discuss these things, and I tend to have a perspective that goes against the grain (that you described well...) and every year, I tend to get ridiculed for it far more often than not. And with no pretense intended, usually the points I'm trying to make end up being more accurate points when all is said and done. I could care less about being self-righteous and I'm not looking for admiration or anything. I'm just trying to explain why it's become intrinsic to be rather defensive as I attempt to discuss these things. And honestly, I'll work on it. Again, I don't say anything out of a desire to prop myself up. I'm ultimately a huge Red Wings fan who tries to be respectful of the team and of history. I also try to be logical as well. I think we both can admit that such an attitude doesn't always get you real far here, right or wrong. I'm not saying it's right to get as defensive as I do, but I just want you to understand where I'm coming from.

I agree that Osgood needs more starts obviously and Howard more rests, and I agree that Howard's earning more starts than Osgood thus far. But to me, it has nothing to do with wins and losses. I don't think our goalies are making and breaking this team this year. It's scoring. Even Osgood's weaker games lately are influenced by rust, just as Howard's weaker games are influenced by lack of rest. If Osgood were to get going I think his numbers would go way up. I don't know if he'd touch Howard's brilliance at times so far, but his numbers would certainly improve with more games and more of an actual chance to get in a groove. And again, I think at that point, it boils down to a wash when wins-losses are concerned. What concerns me more even than the physical issues of letting one get rusty and the other get worn out is the issues Babcock is creating with Osgood. I don't think they're healthy in the long run and I think they're completely avoidable. Again, I just don't put much stock in this "we need to win so we're starting Howard." More often than not, we win when we score more than a goal or two and lose when we score a goal or well, less... But even looking at wins/losses, I think there are games that Osgood and Howard would have won if Osgood got more starts and Howard more rests. I think Osgood would've beat the Caps and I think Howard would've beat the Hawks if the rotation had even a hint of balance. So from my perspective, I think it's possible that we could have more points if things were more balanced. In any event though, I see absolutely no reason for Babcock to be creating these issues. I think it's unnecessary and I will say outrightly that I think it is disrespectful to Osgood. I don't think there are any goalies in the league with credentials like Osgood's who would react better, and a whole lot more would react worse. So again, I just don't see the point in going there. I don't think it's constructive in the long-run.