haroldsnepsts

The Wings need Kronwall playing 23+ minutes a night, and against top talent so to make that pairing work you either have to drastically reduce Kronwall's minutes to something Kindl can handle or you put Kindl out there for big minutes against top talent, which as ogreslayer pointed out, would be a horror show. I guess there's a scenario where you mix and match to get some of Kronwall's minutes with him, but I can't see Kindl being his regular defensive partner in a game. But basically I keep hoping someone will post a twitter link saying he's been traded for a pick. It's beyond time to cut bait with him and let the young guys get their shot.

It sounds like he wouldn't be taking over from Quintal, but would be one of the advisors that review plays and weigh in with their opinions. Though I have no idea why he'd walk away from $5 mill, unless the league was going to challenge his LTIR status and he'd no longer get paid that salary, and the player safety job was an olive branch. But that's obviously heavy speculation on my part.

Enough with the discussion about how people post here. I'm getting tired of posting reminders about this, so warnings and suspensions are coming next time a thread gets derailed with talk of how fans post. Let's get back on topic and actually discuss hockey.

In the article the guy from Yahoo speculates that he could recuse himself from any discipline involving the Flyers. He apparently has no function within the organization other than being a player on LTIR. I can't see the league approving him being both on LTIR for the Flyers and paying him to be on the disciplinary committee. Maybe this is a move to get him off the books in Philly? Pronger is due $5 million this season, so I don't know why he'd give that up and take a job within the league unless they were forcing him off LTIR or allowing him to collect two paychecks. The next year though it goes down to $575k, which is still a chunk of change but is a much smaller gap between that and what his NHL salary would be.

I guess I don't really consider that a non-traditional market. I meant more like LA, Phoenix, Nashville.

That's been my experience with almost all non-traditional hockey market fans. It makes sense when you think about it because it's much harder to follow hockey in those places so the ones that do tend to be hardcore fans who are happy just to have other hockey fans to talk to.

I can't remember who it was that was blaming Babcock for Nyquist not being on the team, but this is about as clear as it gets regarding roster decisions between Holland and Babcock. http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2014/10/pavel_datsyuk_officially_out_f.html#incart_river

Kindl's problems aren't just offensive. It might be able to overlook them if he were putting up a ton of points, but he still has serious defensive issues. He will bail out of a play to avoid getting hit. He still makes questionable decisions around his own net for someone with his level of experience. He's too quick to chip it off the glass and give the puck up instead of making a play. And he doesn't use his considerable size at all. I've said this many times before but Kindl is 6'3" and 216 lbs. The only people bigger than him on the Wings are Franzen and Ericsson. You'd never guess it by looking at how he plays. Yes a run and gun system might be a better fit for him, but he still needs to be better at getting the puck out of his own end. With someone who is as skilled as he is, his first pass should be his strength but it isn't. He also had a stretch where he was among the best at the team in getting shots through from the point, but that has inexplicably evaporated. Kindl has many lingering issues with his game, and it's not because of a defensive scheme Babcock is employing. It has to do with lack of hockey sense and heart. He's a tools but no toolbox guy.

As people have already mentioned, the roster is not set in stone. If the rumors are true, it sounds like Holland is trying to free up a spot for XO by moving Kindl. On a side note, XO is one of the cooler, easier to type nicknames I've seen in a while. And Nestrasil sounds like something you put on acne. "I used to get breakouts all the time in high school. Then I started using Nestrasil!"

but.. but... Kindl > Ericsson?? (sorry. petty of me, but man that pissed me off when people kept saying that a couple years back)

Not that I'd want them to, but honestly Lashoff might be easier to move than Kindl. A big, somewhat physical defenseman who's still young and could improve. Signed at 725k for the next two seasons he could be a cheap bottom pairing guy for some team. Kindl on the other hand is signed for $2.4 million for the next 3 seasons. That's a lot to pay for a 27 yr old, 5 year vet who has struggled to hold his bottom pairing spot.

Sounds like Babcock really did want XO in the lineup. If you look at how Babcock had the pairings at practice it's pretty clear what he thought the pecking order should be. It's also more proof he and Holland don't exactly see eye to eye on the roster. http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2014/10/red_wings_assign_defenseman_xa.html

I see what you're saying, but saying "Lash isn't in any trouble" is still a long way off from claiming Lashoff and Kindl have no chance of losing their spot to a prospect. Because in that article Echolalia posted Babcock says (emphasis mine): http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2014/10/mike_babcock_insists_red_wings.html I think people's frustration with Babcock giving underperforming vets ice time is causing them to fixate too much on this one comment. I'm not totally sure on this but I think Kindl has been a healthy scratch at some point every single season he's played for the Wings. After his poor performance last year, I can't see how that got him a guaranteed spot on the roster.

Thanks for finding it. Yeah, re reading it that's a stretch from Khan based on what Babcock actually said.

It's an oft repeated rumor that Shanahan had an affair with Craig Janney's wife while they were still married. Shanahan did end up marrying Janney's ex-wife, but I never hear anything other than innuendo as to exactly what went down. The story goes that's why Shanny was traded from St. Louis. As far as I know they are still married and had three kids together. So it's wasn't exactly a fling.

I think someone had posted a quote from one of Khan's articles. I can't remember the exact quote but I think people are reading too much of it in thinking Kindl and Lashoff's jobs are definitely safe. Has Kindl even made it through a season without being a healthy scratch?

They definitely don't always see eye to eye on the roster. http://kuklaskorner.com/tmr/comments/do-ken-holland-and-mike-babcock-disagree-about-personnel-yes-and-they-like This is a pretty bold comment but he's made a couple like it before. I think he once talked about not knowing why Ericsson was still in the AHL and not on the team.

No?? That's exactly what I wrote. I think he had something like 2 games left before that was no longer the case. Yes, I'm sure Babcock made explicitly clear he wanted a veteran like Tootoo on the team. Just not on the ice. Like in the press box. Or minors. I'm guessing Holland didn't do it to start last year because he wanted to see if his bad signings would improve a bit. Sammy was coming back from injury and might regain his form. And maybe Tootoo would provide something more than staged fights. Neither one happened so he finally cut bait. I don't actually fault him for that regarding Samuelsson. I didn't like the signing but it's better for the team if he could've salvaged something out of that contract. In general I think Babcock does err on the side of using veterans who he knows are less likely to make a mistake that could give up a goal, even if it means sacrificing potential offensive upside from using a younger player. But that's not what happened with Nyquist. The Wings were in a roster and cap crunch and Nyquist was the victim due to his contract status.

People can argue Babcock's role in wanting Cleary, but there's not a leg to stand on here with Nyquist. Nyquist was the only player who could be sent down without having to clear waivers, so he was. Saying Holland had no problem waiving those guys "once Babcock decided he didn't want them" is a completely unsubstantiated and misrepresented account of what happened. You can't go by games played because they were benched or injured and out of the lineup for a long time before Holland finally cut bait with his awful signings. It didn't take Holland 11 games to waive Tootoo. The truth is Tootoo only played 11 games with the Wings and spent the rest in the minors, and played only a half a season before that. They sent him to the minors for the second time in December. Holland had been trying to trade Tootoo but with that contract not surprisingly no one was interested. Finally in June they put him on waivers. And you're completely putting words in my mouth. What I have said that comes anywhere near that Babs was begging for Nyquist in the lineup? I'm not saying Babcock has no say, but it's holland's job, not Babcock's. I don't get mad at Holland for line combinations or icetime or how a player is utilized, but I'm guessing he has thoughts on that. Frankly it doesn't matter even if Babcock was begging for Nyquist. The fact is that Holland signed too many players and put the team over the roster limit (and I think cap limit if memory serves?). Nyquist was the only one who could be sent down, so they did exactly that.

Just to clarify a couple things, Nyquist played 57 games for the Wings last season, so he was kept out of the lineup for 25. More importantly, those lost games were a result of his two-way contract and Holland backing the team up to the roster limit with moves like signing Cleary, not Babcock's coaching.

I think Pens fans would accept him. Don't forget that the Wings hired him from Anaheim two years after he swept Detroit in the first round with a much less talented squad.

I didn't see this posted yet, but here's Khan's take (emphasis mine): http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2014/09/red_wings_mike_babcock_on_cont.html

No kidding. My point was that people tend to overrate prospects and it's incredibly hard to predict how they will fare in the NHL, even for professionals. Like these future Red Wings: "He is a man amongst boys sometimes. He's not overly physical, but he takes the man and plays the body and he's got a little chip on his shoulder at times. But he's more of a skilled guy." -- Red Wings director of amateur scouting Joe McDonnell (December 2005) "He's gotten stronger. He still needs to get a little bit stronger, but at training camp, he came close to making the team. He was definitely good enough to play and stick there. He's the kind of guy who plays better with better players. Down the road, I would think he's going to be a top-four guy. He's good on the power play and he's a real smart kid." -- McDonnell (October 2006) "He's got very good hockey sense, good stick skills, and he's a Red Wings type of player, the way he thinks the game. We think he's a top two line player. Like with all kids, he needs to improve his strength. He needs to work on his leg strength and get his skating a little bit stronger, but it's just the maturing of the body." -- Red Wings assistant general manager Jim Nill (June 2006) ... "His hockey sense is his best asset. He's a very smart player. He's just got to get bigger and stronger, but he's a pretty well-rounded guy." -- Red Wings director of amateur scouting Joe McDonnell (October 2006) ... That's Kindl and Emmerton. I hope these young guys turn into NHL d-men, I just don't think you really can tell too much until they get time with the big club.

Admittedly I don't know a ton about our prospects. I guess after seeing so many promising prospects wash out over the years, I have a fairly conservative view on how many will actually turn into full time NHL defensemen. People here were saying the Wings had the deepest defensive prospects in the league in 2007.

There's good prospects on defense but I think like most prospects they're somewhat overrated in terms of NHL potential. Hopefully one or two will shake out to be an NHL defenseman, but even then they're unlikely to become reliable D-men at this level for at least a couple seasons. There's not many 21 year olds who can step right into the league. I never read too much into what Babcock says in interviews but Lashoff I'm pretty fine with. Last season was his first full year. If he can play more physical and be a good bottom pairing stay at home guy, great. In no way should Kindl's job be safe. He's lucky he wasn't shipped out in the offseason as part of a package. I'm guessing his contract is part of that problem. But he absolutely should have to prove he deserves his ice time. He's been given tons of time and opportunities. Though honestly, no one's job should be safe on defense other than Kronwall, Ericsson and Dekeyser.