pondrocket

Only without a solid D.....

Tougher, fast. They will get a new GM They could be straightened out more easily than the Wings. Even if the Wings get in the play offs (no guarantee) they won't go far. Sj are a couple tweaks away from being a good team that is built to battle in the playoffs. Wings are not playoff tough. History keeps revealing it. Some interesting kids in GR for sure. A little over valued though. Remember when Smith was the guy everyone wanted as part of any trade? He will be a solid 4 - 5 guy but not more. He sure knows how to hit the glass with his shot!

I think Babcock can see through a streak. More importantly he can see exactly where the team is, even when they were performing well. I think he has already decided to go & I think he will end up coaching the Sharks. They are closer, SJ is a beautiful place to live. I don't think he will want to wait the three years to be competitive in a meaningful way & why should he have faith that the right decisions will be made within 3 years. We have a few really interesting kids but we are going to loose a couple "special" players soon. Kronner is exhausted and while Danny will be a solid guy they have nothing else long term on the back end, nothing.

Detroit hit their potential early this year and flat lined. Other teams are improving. Our D is what it is.

I bet Holland revisits it if free agency doesn't produce what he would like.

I like it. Nothing is free. Hope he can be healthy & productive. Maybe earns an extension for 1 or 2 more years? All we can hope is we get better & I believe we did. Hope there is more. Need to become a destination again so when the new arena opens the team is competitive in a meaningful way.

If I can dig it up I have an early demo of his before he was signed to Atlantic. He was always really talented but a little bit of a chart chaser. Hell, he was a business guy working to establish himself. When I find it I will get it off the cassette and send you a file. Worth a listen for a Kip Winger fan.

So Kip, Are you a Kip Winger fan or just recognizing a fun take on the name?

Cool! Hope you have a great trip! Great BQ!!!! http://slowsbarbq.com/ Great for lunch, dinner, after the game! http://www.americanconeyisland.com/home.htm if you get a minute: https://www.motownmuseum.org/ Get to Ann Arbor! http://www.zingermansdeli.com/ Great ppl watching, food, lots of stuff that has nothing to do with THC: http://www.freedomactivist.net/hashbash.html

From your posts you sound like a 16 year old that doesn't know anything about hockey.;

I guess we define paying off differently.

To me this is exactly the problem. Holland appears to be briliant because a few of the talking heads identify that "this is the year the Wings don't make the play offs" and his teams continue to make the playoffs. That said he builds the best teams and better than anybody else that relies virtually entirely on the draft. He builds a skilled, determined team with guys that have character. Holland has always gotten the most of the draft. But just making the playoffs every year is bad when it becomes obvious that your team is not built for the playoffs & when you autopsy the season and look at everything the forwards have to do defensively because the D us under served it is not favorable. This is where we are at. FA's think we are too far away so guys that Holland is willing to overpay a bit go to Washington; or they take less than Holland was going to pay to go to pitsburg or with the exception of Danny who is from the area and played with Nill's kid and was brought to the Joe his whole adult life to meet Nick & walk through the dressing room they choose to go to Edmonton (Shultz, whome the Wings wanted).... when your number 2 D (is number 2), and you don't address this players take note. When you are unsuccessful in over 6 years to bring in a guy to help the team & to steward the tallented guys coming up it is a failure. Who cares about making the playoffs every year if it handcufs your ability to assume risk where it is meaningful. Legwand was not meaningful. I don't see anything meaningful this year & I don't hold him accountable for that. What I hold him accountable for is failing 6 years in a row to supliment his skilled drafting and player development.

Just noticed where you are from. I totally respect your loyalty there Newfie! Danny was a really good player & I think one of the first Newfie's with his name on the cup. He made his contribution & I don't blame you for your pride & defense of him. Cheers!

If you think letting a 500,000.00 player with youth, size and might actually play in the NHL go is smarter than not signing Clearey for 2,000,000.00 and tying up a roster spot well .... you have to be Danny's mom.

The only bad trade I can even think of in my life is Adam Oates and Paul MacLean to the St. Louis Blues for Bernie Federko and Tony McKegney. Can't blame Holland for that but it was on Jimmy D's watch. Pretty enviable stat, considering the decades I go back to recall that one.

The catalyst to my comment was not that Nestrasil is going to be great or that Clearey is bad. It is about assets. Right now the team needs to add assets to transition from a really good team to a special team. Complicating factors are a struggle to attract FA's the last few years and having enough of the right assets to trade for another without shedding something we are really going to need. As great as the Wings are at the draft (is there anybody equil or better?) it is almost imposible to have a team of special players mature at the same time. How does Holland supliment his great home grown team? Assets. My point was he was at least an asset & Clearey is less of an asset as he does not play, he has no trade value & he consumes unreasonable cap space.

The Wings players are going to be best served playing against NHL caliber players in practice. Danny is not, or he would be playing. But if his other intangibles are of value bring him into the organization as a coach. Don't WASTE a roster spot. He definately won't be on any roster next year. Holland gave up a young kid with size for nothing. Nobody is saying the Wings are going to vanish off the face of the earth. It is about assets. They will be bounced in the first round though. They are certainly a good team, but not a special team.

Still nobody knows what he will turn into but he did have some skill and justified a roster spot more than Clearey.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/wild/292138431.html Nice night for Nestrasil. Good thing we were able to hang on to Cleary instead of a 200 lb kid with some ability. Thanx Holland!

I love the Wings but they are going to get ***** slapped right out of the 1st round. maybe they can win 4th place and the Flint Megabowl?

http://kuklaskorner.com/hockey/comments/rebuild-the-leafs I just read Damien Cox's piece on KK about blowing up the Leafs. It made me wonder if all parties may be served best if Pav & Hank would be allowed to go to a place with a genuine shot at the cup (if that would suit them) and the wings can load up on some draft picks to help launch a team in a few years when our young guys today are seasoned and would be complimented by an influx in talent for a longer run? For many reasons Holland has not been able to reshape the team enough through trades or free agency, For more than half a decade. He has done a great job and has had some fortune in the draft and development area's. Is anybody else wondering about this? I just don't see enough help in our future.

I do watch the Wings and I have followed then since they were called The Deat Things. Here is what I do see: A team hovering around middle of the pack for an extended period of time. A team that struggles to get the puck out of the defensive zone. A team who's offense is being hampered because they all have to wait around for the puck to advance or stay in the D zone to help get it out. A team that has had over six years to address the D in either free agency or trade and has not been able to find the right blend of value. I see a team that is fun to watch and follow that is going to need an influx of talent within two years and because the new NHL it is tough "for us" to aquire via trade or Free Agency. There are contending teams on the edge that DO have quality prospects that could contribute in a couple years. How long is Hank goung to love having his lower back targeted 80 games a year without a real shot at going deep into the playoffs? Is Pav satisfied playing withought the opportunity to go deep? Are Hank & Pav are content, I hope they are. I really do. It's a board. it's about exchanging ides.

I loved Bert as a Wing! Dallas, Edmonton, Otawa, Phoenix..... lots of places could use him! I would rather he ride the pine then Fu#%*n Cleary.

I don't see Babs going to Toronto. They don't have time to wait & he is still seriously considering Detroit. That being said Holland needs to improve the back end. Something he has failed to do through free agency & through trade for 6 years. Without that why should Babs stay?

Just a reminder that they are still playing games in Edmonton.