Dabura

Concession: That post of mine that started this back-and-forth was poorly worded.

"Hi, I'm Buppy. I'm going to accuse you of talking out of your ass and I'm going to do so while talking out of my ass." I don't have a chip on my shoulder about Seider. I don't think hE wAsN't RaNkEd hIgH eNoUgH. Seider got a lot of love from people and I pointed that out at the time. I'm not saying he didn't get love. I'm saying I read lots of Seider takes and I thought they were, on average, lacking. I'm not saying the reason for that is some huge mystery or cosmic injustice, though I *am* saying I was surprised that I didn't see more people saying, for example, that playing in a men's league as a teenager is impressive, yes, *and* is also a factor you have to consider when you characterize his playing style and assess his perceived strengths and weaknesses. A teen defenseman in a men's league is going to play conservatively. It's a simple, obvious point...yet I didn't see many people explicitly making it. One of our resident Germanbros @ely s has pointed out that Seider is way more offensively inclined than his 2018-19 showing would suggest. I've seen a couple of other Germanbros make the same point over at the The Accursed HFBoards. I like the deep dive Dobber analysis. There are a couple of Europe-focused outlets that scouted him pretty thoroughly. As North Americans get easier access to info re: Europe-based draft-eligibles, I think the general tenor of discussions about these players is going to shift. People are going to be more familiar with non-marquee non-NA players and the way they think about them, rate them, pick them apart, etc. is going to change. Historically, European hockey is a black box for the North American layman. Now? I can find a stream of any game in any noteworthy league in Europe. I'm tired and I've got a headache. This is a dumb fight you're trying to pick.

It's one of the main reasons why I like Dobber Prospects so much. I think they and some others are doing solid work, which includes, among other things, giving people a steady stream of info re: young under-the-radar players who are playing outside of North America. https://dobberprospects.com/prospect-deep-dive-moritz-seider/

I'm not talking about actual NHL amateur scouts. I'm talking about fans, the blogosphere, the Pronmans. I was balls-deep in everyone's takes on players and I felt the Seider takes were generally a bit lacking. I feel this is sort of the norm for NA folks' takes on non-marquee draft-eligibles playing in European leagues and I feel that The Age of Information is probably going to see the average info-seeking hockey fan own increasingly informed, nuanced takes on draft-eligibles who maybe wouldn't have gotten much coverage and love in years past.

HYPE! Official stream can be found on Twitter and Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DETROITREDWINGS LGRW! EDIT: I won't be liveblogging these games, but I wanted to at least make it known that the Wings are streaming these games for free.

It's also on YouTube:

He's definitely on my radar now.

Yeah, I was surprised that no one -- outside of actual legit scouts and such -- seemed to consider the context of his deployment. "He played a pretty safe, unremarkable brand of hockey for his German club, didn't flash a whole lot of gamebreaking skill." Well, yeah. Dude's a teenager playing in a men's league. He was very likely playing the way his coach had instructed him to play. Assuming that's all there is to his game is pretty weak, imo. I predict we're going to see a fundamental shift in the way people think about draft-eligible players who are playing in Europe. Indeed, I suspect the shift has already started. The conventional thinking is something like "Well, I mean, it's not the CHL, so we have to be careful here." I think we're moving towards "Do we feel this player would've killed it in the CHL?" I feel Seider would've killed it in the OHL/WHL/QMJHL.

Agreed. We're not icing an especially deep team this year, but I thought our marquee players were our best players and played well overall. Seider is a beauty. Outside of sure-thing top-three picks, I'm not sure you're gonna find a more complete 18-year-old defenseman. Size, skating, smarts, vision, poise, physicality, shooting, passing, playmaking, PP QBing, defensive mindfulness, mean streak -- he has it all. I love that he routinely holds the puck and makes plays under pressure when 99% of other 18-year-old defensemen will panic and throw the puck away because they don't wanna get crushed and/or they don't trust their puck skills in a say-your-prayers situation. I also love that he went HAM after Dach. Dach's a big boy and Seider laid him out flat on at least one occasion and I loved it. Veleno was quiet through the first 20 but came alive after that and ended up potting a couple of goals and leading a valiant comeback effort. Aside from maybe his skating, there isn't one aspect of his game that really stands out and makes everyone take notice -- but by the end of the game, he will have put up some points while doing some unheralded heavy lifting for his team. Also, dude is a handsome son of a b****. Zadina is a fraction of a second, a fraction of an inch, and a few pounds of muscle away from being a menace. It's kinda maddening. Could've blown the game wide open a few times but, like I said, he's just that itty-bitty teensy-weensy bit off. Needs a little more seasoning. Showed good chemistry with Veleno, made a perfect pass to set up one of Veleno's goals. So we might have a new dynamic duo to look forward to, first in Grand Rapids and eventually in Detroit. Thought Hirose looked good. Maybe my eyes were deceiving me, but he looked a bit quicker than I remember him being. He loves selling the shot and then going behind his back with a pass to the point on the PP. I can't recall a single Red Wing in recent memory trying that with any regularity. I've been kinda down on Givani Smith after the 2018-19 season he had, but I think he still has the potential to be a decent complementary grinder. His value will probably be tied directly to the caliber of his linematers. Case in point: Our first PP unit looked really good last night and I thought he was an important part of it. He won't be a big producer, but he can f*** your s*** up in the trenches. Gustav Lindstrom didn't impress me. Granted, he's not a flashy player. One of those "If you don't notice him, that means he's doing his job" defensemen. I liked Alec Regula's work on the point, but I didn't notice him much outside of that.

https://dobberprospects.com/prospect-ramblings-musings-on-podkolzin-denisenko-the-2020-crop-more-sept-7/

He's one of the reasons why I really wanted Holland to "replace" Lidstrom and/or Rafalski. Put Kronwall with, say, Brent Burns and you've got a legit top pairing. I do feel like Kronwall got kinda shafted in that sense; he stepped into the 1D roll on a blue line with no depth and management basically told him -- every year -- that 1) he was on his own and 2) it's playoffs or bust. Raw deal, but he never complained to the media, never pouted. He went to work, did his job, and led. Like a boss.

Again, I have a really hard time seeing Yzerman having any real interest in Puljujarvi. Holland, as Red Wings GM, might've kicked those tires. But Yzerman? Nah. Yzerman wants hard-working troops with good attitudes -- "young Yzermans," if you will. Say what you want about Svechnikov but I've never caught a whiff of bad vibes coming from him; he's been a good soldier, he's fought through some s*** luck, he deserves the extended Red Wings audition that he's been working towards. Puljujarvi? He's chosen to take the pout path. Let someone else take on that baggage.

If only we'd gotten Zadina AND Veleno! Snark aside, I hear ya. All things being equal, I probably take a centerman or defenseman over a winger. But nothing's ever equal, so whatevz. I think the best drafting strategy is to just go with the guys you like the best. (Within reason.)

Preliminary 2020 NHL Draft Rankings (Sept. 2019) [DobberProspects]

TBH, this makes me like him a bit more.

Found the hipster.

No. They're all leftist flannel beards.

If we're talking possible young trade targets, I'm currently swooning over Grigori Denisenko (FLA). https://dobberprospects.com/player/grigori-denisenko/ He's not a reclamation project like Puljujarvi is and there's no reason to think Dale Tallon has any interest in moving him. So he's a pipe dream. Having said that...if Mantha or Athanasiou could land us Denisenko plus FLA's 2020 1st, I think I'd strongly consider pulling that trigger.

Supposedly Yzerman was in on Gusev, though I can't remember how credible the sources were. At any rate, I agree with you. We have Wings personnel candidly telling media that Yzerman has no interest in highly skilled players if they're not good soldiers. Like I've said before, Yzerman is the very same guy who famously told 3rd overall pick Jonathan Drouin to sit his uppity ass down and ultimately shipped him out of town. (Also told Martin St. Louis to shove it. So, yeah.) Puljujarvi's done nothing at the NHL level, failing to earn a regular spot on Oilers rosters that haven't been significantly deeper than any of our own recent rosters. Svechnikov hasn't done anything at the NHL level either, but he's had some s*** luck with injuries. And even if Svechnikov isn't an NHL top-six scoring winger, I figure he can probably be a half-decent bottom-six grinder. Puljujarvi? Anecdotally, I feel like if he's not scoring, he's useless.

The Koreans are at the gates; we must remain vigilant. LGW.com is good people, fer sure. Guess I'm just lamenting that we're all probably in for another lean year. Even with Yzerman at the helm, I reckon fan enthusiasm is going to remain low (by modern Wings standards) until the team becomes relevant again and is back to playing meaningful games late in the regular season. Lotsa fans talk a big game about how much losing they're willing to put up with re: rebuilds, but there's no substitue for winning. Winning makes everyone feel good and puts butts in the seats. So, I hope this is the last summer where trading for an Adam Erne is a big thing and 90% of the player season reviews are "[Player] did not produce and his contract is dumb, but he is a true leader." tl;dr losing is for losers.

This has been a really, really long offseason and it isn't even over yet.

I liked what I saw of Byfield at the Hlinka-Gretzky Cup. (Watched streams. Wasn't actually there.) I'm always a little wary of kids who are much bigger and stronger than their peers, and Byfield is most definitely that (6'4-215), but he looked pretty legit.

https://dobberprospects.com/august-31-in-31-detroit-red-wings-2/

I'm a little surprised they have Seider being a full two years away. Maybe I'm totally misreading how close he is, just as I did with Zadina, but I'm really feeling like he's not quite that far away. I guess it could largely depend on where he plays this season. Also, Nielsen as our 4C? (See the embedded "31-in-31" video.) You gonna take that lying down, @DanishBackhander51?!