Dabura

Fair. My counterargument isn't that he's young and +/- is stupid. It's that he had a rough transition from the QMJHL to the AHL. He got shredded early on, but he made some adjustments and grew as a player and improved as the season went on. I think holding up the -17 as a serious red flag about his two-way prowess is misguided/dishonest. We've seen some young Wings' +/- ratings fluctuate wildly over the past few years. Did anyone expect Bertuzzi to finish this season at +11? I feel like we're just abandoning what we all know about the ins and outs and ups and downs of development. I feel like we're getting nerdy and leaning too heavily on numbers. I might be more swayed if I felt like people had really watched him this season -- often and very closely. There was a breakaway goal he scored late in the season. I vaguely remember a few of us talking about it on LGW.com. If memory serves, Mackel said Zadina was cherry-picking and that this is exactly the sort of thing he won't get away with at the NHL level. In fact, he was not cherry-picking. He didn't fly the zone early. He didn't start running until he saw that his team had full possession of the puck in their zone and that he'd be able to catch the men at the point flat-footed. He played it exactly the way he should've played it. Subtle things like that. I like that about him. If someone wants to put together a highlights package that shows all the ways Zadina is terrible defensively, I'd gladly watch it. It's not an excuse. And there's nothing I'd need to excuse, as I feel he produced pretty well for a teenaged AHL rookie. He spent a lot of time with mostly career AHLers (the Griffins' top six was basically career AHLers and Zadina) and I think it's possible that playing with more talented, more "skillsy" players might've resulted in better production, even if he was playing against much tougher competition (AHL versus NHL). What are we even debating here? This is all so dumb.

tl;dr y'all is poobrains

Honestly, I think there's something to the idea that he could be one of those players. I've said as much a few times this season. The NHL is much tougher than the AHL, but what I saw from him in the AHL was a player who's really good at creating...but was playing with a lot of career AHLers who don't process the game the way he does. I still would've liked to have seen him put up more points, of course. But, yeah.

He's in the AHL because he was on loan from a Euro team. So, when you say Zadina's "not at all ahead of the curve," what you really mean is the players picked ahead of him are farther along. Which, I mean, sure. Yes. (Excluding Hayton.) I dunno, you do you, but I feel it's dishonest to go on about this kid like he's already a big disappointment and there's red flags all over the place. I haven't seen anyone present a compelling argument for Zadina being "not at all ahead of the curve" and a one-dimensional Pulkkinen retread. You literally said the notion that Zadina is a competent two-way winger couldn't be farther from the truth. That's a bold statement, one that doesn't line up with what I've seen and what most people have said about him. "But muh -17 rating." His pro career started out rough, like I said. But, for some reason, it feels like only three or four people here actually watched this player really closely this season and saw a player who got more comfortable as the season went on and ended up looking really good as a Wing (if only in a ridiculously small sample size). "He didn't do s*** in his nine games with the Wings," Mackel might say. But he did. He wasn't solid on every single shift, but man did he show some serious promise. Even production-wise it was promising: 3 points through 9 games, as a teenaged rookie, and he very easily could've potted a few more points. Look, I'm prepared for Zadina to be a bust...and I'm also prepared for him to become an elite NHLer. The reason I'm not hating on him is because I genuinely don't see any reason to be down on him. Am I disappointed that he didn't go straight to the NHL this season and put himself in the Calder conversation? Sure. I thought he was more NHL-ready than he actually was and that kind of stings. Am I going to gnash my teeth about it? No. I'm really not. I don't get why people are so down on him, especially when I get the distinct impression that the people who are most vocally down on him haven't actually seen much of him. Dude was picked 6th overall. I might be kinda-sorta-maybe-slightly troubled if we'd taken him 3rd overall, but we didn't. We took him right about where he probably should've been taken. Should we have taken Hughes or Bouchard instead? I dunno, maybe. I think that could be a worthwhile discussion in a few years.

See, ^^^this^^^ is quality trolling.

You guys keep saying stuff and I'm over here thinking to myself, "I definitely watched him in the QMJHL and I definitely watched him in the AHL and I definitely watched him with the Wings and I'm pretty sure you guys are just HFBoardsing."

He played in the AHL as an 18-year-old, putting up 35 points in 59 games. Not sure how that doesn't qualify as "ahead of the curve." I disagree. He looked fine for a teenager. Had a rough start to his pro career, but by the end of the season I was fine with the way he was playing. He needs to work on some things, but so does everyone at 19 years old. I had serious concerns about Pulkkinen's game. I don't have the same concerns about Zadina's game. I was pleased with the way he played in his short stint with the Wings. He got better and better and by the end of the stint he looked like he belonged. Was making stuff happen, wasn't missing defensive assignments any more than any other Wing was. There were a couple games where I was laughing maniacally at some of the stuff he was doing.

The thought has crossed my mind, yeah. He's been pretty good about landing solid defensemen through trades tho. That's one reason why I'm kinda content to see us just keep loading up at forward.

I hope so! It's funny, going into this tournament I was all like "It'd be really great if we could have a few of our young guys tear s*** up in front of a big non-Wings audience. But that won't happen, because Wings." I've just kind of gotten used to the Wings having low-key, under-the-radar, non-spectacular young players. I'm absolutely loving this change of pace. Combine that with the whole "Yzerman is the best GM in the league" thing (not sure I agree, but a lot of people seem to feel it's true) and the Wings are maybe kinda sorta starting to become a nice destination for top UFAs again.

Zagina

Larkin, Mantha, and Hronek are doing some good advertisement for the Wings in the lead-up to July 1.

Dunno about marry but would definitely sex.

https://www.bardown.com/italian-hockey-fan-reacts-with-the-most-authentic-italian-hand-gestures-ever-following-goal-against-1.1307715

Mantha Mania

Anyway... I really like Philip Tomasino. Seems like everyone has him going in the back half of the 1st round. A number of those people have him going late. I think he could be a guy worth trading up for.

Honestly, I hope so. Because f*** the Devils and f*** the Rangers. I want nothing more than for our guy to outshine both Hughes and Kakko, whether it's Zegras or Turcotte or Cozens or Dach or Podkolzin or Byram or Boldy or Krebs. EDIT: Oh, I misread you. Garry Kasparov is a chess master. I see what you did there. I thought Kasparov was some colossal disappointment or something. I hope Hughes and Kakko become nothing players. I want nothing but failure for our enemies and nothing but success for the Wings.

gLoBaL wArMiNg Is SeTtLeD sCiEnCe

You are radiating butthurt energy, my dude.

Because Hughes is the more HYPE!-worthy player. Pettersson flew under the radar and now a lot of people look stupid. It happens every year and this draft will probably be no exception. I mean, yeah, basically. That's why everyone is so high on him. Hughes > Kakko > everyone else. I stand by that claim. Cry harder, nerd.

Hughes is also a record-breaking player. Everyone seems to think his schedule and quality of competition as a USDP player is a cake walk, but that isn't the case. I'd also add that while the Liiga is a men's league, that doesn't mean it's filled to the brim with outstanding players. It just means it's a league full of men. A pro league. That's not to take anything away from what Kakko's done this season. It's extraordinary.

I'd say that sounds about right, yeah. On the other hand: defenseman, i.e. crapshoot. Byram might be a slightly better prospect than, say, Cozens (up for debate), but a team might feel safer taking the big, right-shooting, high-scoring, two-way centerman. In any case, it's gonna be reeeeal interesting watching this 1st round play out.

Prob'ly won't happen. But crazier things have happened.

Totally up in the air, as always. Everyone seems convinced Byram is going in the top five and I'm sitting here thinking he could easily slip to 6 because he's a defenseman not named Dahlin or Heiskanen. I'm old enough to remember when Elias Pettersson put up one point (an assist) in six games at the 2017 U-20 WJC.

My mock draft of the top 16. NJD -- Jack Hughes NYR -- Kaapo Kakko CHI -- Dylan Cozens COL -- Bowen Byram LAK -- Alex Turcotte DET -- Trevor Zegras BUF -- Kirby Dach EDM -- Matthew Boldy ANA -- Peyton Krebs VAN -- Cole Caufield PHI -- Vasili Podkolzin MIN -- Cam York FLA -- Victor Soderstrom ARI -- Philip Tomasino MTL -- Thomas Harley COL -- Alex Newhook I'll expand this out to at least halfway through the 2nd round as we get closer to the draft.