Dabura

Sure, but I doubt that gets it done.

I'm on record saying as saying he has no chance. But that was before we lost Vrana for the next 4+ months. I mean, I dunno that losing Vrana really changes anything re: Raymond. But maybe it does.

This is basically a make-or-break season for Zadina, at least in terms of fan patience. The honeymoon is over; these shots need to start finding the back of the net:

Like I said a few weeks ago in a different thread: Raymond absolutely does need to bulk up and just generally get stronger. Which isn't a knock on him. It simply means he's 19 and he's never trained with an NHL organization and it shows. He'll get bigger, stronger, faster. At which point he'll be truly ready to rock. Like I also said a few weeks ago in that thread: I think Raymond has the potential to be roughly as good as Zetterberg. I really mean that. He's not the flashiest player to ever play the game, but he's a remarkable player. If he's a 60-point NHLer, I'm going to be a little disappointed.

Agreed.

So this Luko Raymonde kid seems pretty legit.

Through 3 games, Edvinsson has been solid for Frolunda (SHL) in a top-pairing role. He looks more 1) comfortable than I'd expected and 2) Seider-like than I'd expected. That pleases me. Ken Kal said during the first prospects tourney game that Edvinsson was #1 on Dallas's 2021 draft board.

Cossa's dad dishin' up some deets...

So far, so good on the Raymond front... please let this kid be datsyuk-good please let this kid be datsyuk-good please let this kid be datsyuk-good

(^^^ Linkage was all messed up in that post. I cleaned it up.)

Going into his draft season, the universal expectation was that Raymond would have himself a great SHL campaign and get picked in the top 3, possibly even 1st overall; he had an impressive body of work and he was coming off a spectacular WJC performance. Sweden's Lucas Raymond records incredible hat trick, including OT winner, to win gold at U18 Worlds [BarDown] Kid was self-evidently special. Raymond's SHL coach Roger Ronnberg may or may not have agreed with that "self-evidently special" part. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't, I genuinely don't know. At the very least, Ronnberg did seem to hold the "kid" part against Raymond in a pretty big way. We're talking fourth-line minutes. We're talking no power play time. The Curious Case of Lucas Raymond [DobberProspects] If I had to guess, what it came down to was "We're Frolunda, a well-oiled winning team in one of the world's very best pro leagues. You're a smallish, scrawny 17-year-old. Unless you're blowing us away, we're not switching things up for you. At least, not this season." So Raymond played a limited role with Frolunda in his draft season. Unsurprisingly, the points didn't come. (4 goals and 10 points thru 33 games.) However, the underlying stats and the eye test both said Raymond was playing like a top-3 pick, production issues aside. The Curious Case of Lucas Raymond [DobberProspects] This past season, Raymond enjoyed an expanded role with Frolunda, putting up 6 goals and 18 points thru 34 games. Not the production I'd ideally like to see, but I'm not concerned; his play made it clear that the skill and smarts and potential are all still there and that the only thing standing between him and NHL stardom is time (knock on wood). He could've dismantled a Canadian major junior league in his draft season. But that wasn't his path. His path was playing in a notoriously low-scoring, all-defense pro league. tl;dr We got a really good player at 4OA.

I've always loved Raymond. (HAHA I SAID THE THING.) It's been sort of surreal to see the blogger-journo-nerd intelligentsia set (BJNIS) give a blank check of unconditional support to a Red Wings prospect like they have with Raymond. Like, I'll see some Wings fans be like "I dunno, man, he hasn't exactly torn the SHL apart" and the BJNIS is like "Don't worry. Dude is legit. Trust me. Y'all got this, fam." Obviously I'm exaggerating a bit. But only a bit. You know a kid is special when the usually-conservative summary blurbs are throwing around words like "extremely," "massive," "incredible," and "nightmare." https://dobberprospects.com/player/lucas-raymond/ https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/350702/lucas-raymond Mind you, my Raymond love isn't based on BJNIS HYPE! I've watched him play. I've dug into his stats. He's probably the only Wings prospect I'll ever describe as having "very real Zetterberg 2.0 potential." Can he be an NHL 1C? Yes. *Will* he be an NHL 1C? Don't count on it. But, hey, you never know. Raymond becoming that monster 1C we desperately need would be so f***ing perfect that I almost have to believe it's meant to be. But even if he's not an NHL centerman (and we should assume he's not), he's the rare kind of player who can control the full 200 feet of ice from the wing. Worth noting: His body is still very "has lifted weights a couple times." https://twitter.com/IcehockeyG/status/1434616141431902218/photo/1 That's how we know he won't be seeing much/any NHL action this coming season. But, more to the point, it's how we know post-draft Raymond isn't even close to his final form. When he bulks up and gets bigger, stronger, faster...look out.

Fair. But I'll point out that Yzerman took Koekkoekk at 10 and then took Drouin at 3 the very next year. And I'll note that all of the best players Yzerman drafted were taken outside the top 15... Cirelli - 72 DeAngelo - 19 Gusev - 202 Kucherov - 58 Namestnikov - 27 Palat - 208 Point - 79 Vasilevskiy - 19 For what it's worth, there's only one defenseman on that list. Indeed, none of the following defensemen were drafted by Yzerman: Cernak (trade) Coburn (trade) Hedman (inherited by Yzerman) McDonagh (trade) Sergachev (trade) Chychrun would be a great long-term partner for Seider (at least in theory). Also, he'd give us a solid PP QB on the blue line and a lethal shot from distance. Just sayin'.

Sure, if we're talking two top-five picks. If we're *not* talking two top-five picks, I have to strongly consider going with the 23-year-old high-scoring top-pairing left-shot 6'2 defenseman who's on a great-value contract ($4.6M cap hit) until 2025. Now, granted, I'm keenly aware that the real point I'm making is "Arizona will not be trading Chychrun, because he's a 23-year-old high-scoring top-pairing left-shot 6'2 defenseman who's on a great-value contract ($4.6M cap hit) until 2025."

Sure, why not. Alternatively: Our '22 1st (top 2 protection; pick would change to our '23 1st (no protection) and we'd add our '22 2nd) WSH's '22 2nd Berggren

So the 'yotes may or may not be shopping Chychrun and asking for two 1sts. Now, before you jump all over me and say our 2022 1st is too valuable and we need a centerman not a defenseman, I want you to consider the following: Chychrun - Seider Edvinsson - Hronek If that's your top four, you can win a Cup with Larkin as your 1C.

Yeah. I mean, I dunno that I wanna say that's the "right" way to do it, cuz that reads like cope. But I do feel there's something to be said for cutting your teeth – as individual players and as a team – with no training wheels, no cheats, no magical silver bullet in the chamber. Having to play better hockey than the other team every night. Having to execute better than the other team every night. Having to battle your ass off every night. In theory, that crucible gives you a great foundation for near-future Cup contention. The idea being: Your glass is half full. And if Steve Yzerman is your GM, it's probably only a matter of time before you find That Player who's gonna fill your glass to the top. This is why I'm ok with Blashill sticking around. None of us want to hear about "process," but it's a real thing and I think he's done a decent job on that front. It's also why I think Seider and Raymond and Edvinsson make a lot of sense for us. Seider is a two-way possession monster who always makes the right play. Raymond is a two-way possession monster who always makes the right play. Edvinsson is a two-way possession monster who...doesn't always make the right play – but that doesn't even matter, cuz Seider and Cossa and lethal power play. Is Rasmussen gonna be a bona fide 1C? Probably not. But I can pretty easily picture a unit of Vrana-Rasmussen-Raymond + [2 of Seider, Hronek, Edvinsson] being one of the better five-man units in the league.

TBH, I think Yzerman would be building the kind of back end he's building regardless of the state of our forward pipeline. It's been known for a long while now that he likes his defensemen big and mobile. And our goaltending had to be addressed in a meaningful way, as our pipeline was pretty much nonexistent. But I do agree that realistically we're probably looking at a Nashville-esque model. We're very likely not going to be a team with a ton of firepower. It's very likely going to be a scrape & claw & stymie & score by committee kind of thing – at least in the first few years of our return to relevance. Hopefully Yzerman's able to pull a monster 1C out of his ass, be it through the draft or through a trade. But that's asking a lot. We'll see.

I'd be happy with vintage Helm / best 3C in the league because it would mean we'd found our new Datsyuk and/or Zetterberg. A team's only as deep as its top players allow it to be.

Veleno is Darren Helm without hands. Yes, WITHOUT hands. He will make Helm look like Ovechkin. Berggren will get his spine snapped in his second game. Lucas Raymond is a stupid-ass name. He is a career ECHLer.

holy s***

HYPE! LGRW!

no