Dabura

Ah, my bad. I don't think any combination of these players gets it done, though. Which is why I think Trouba, Orlov, et al. are pipe dreams. Ken Holland isn't trading Larkin, he's not trading Mantha, he's (probably) not trading Athanasiou. So, the best we could offer would be, like, Tatar + Saarijarvi. But, hey, maybe that's all it would take. Stranger things have happened.

Fact: Jacob Trouba is a very good defenseman. Fact: Kevin Shattenkirk is a very good defenseman. Fact: Neither Jacob Trouba nor Kevin Shattenkirk has established himself as a legit top-pairing defenseman. "Yet you feel the Wings should pursue Trouba and not pursue Shattenkirk." I think Trouba and Shattenkirk should both be on the Wings' radar. However, I'm assuming Shattenkirk is going to get something like $6M x 7 years. And that's my problem with him. It's not "Shattenkirk is not a proven top-pairing defenseman." It's "Shattenkirk is not a $6.5M x 7 player." Trouba is 23 years old. His cap hit for next season is $3M. He took a step forward this season, showed that he can handle a big role. Considering how hard it is to succeed as a young NHL defenseman and also considering the fact that he was drafted 9th overall (if we're talking defensemen, anything outside of the top three is basically crapshoot territory), I don't feel he's been a disappointment at all. Maybe he's overrated. Maybe Shattenkirk is overrated. I dunno. Do I consider trading Svechnikov for Trouba? Absolutely. Svechnikov is an unknown at this point in time. Trouba is a legitimate top-three NHL defenseman who, given his age, is probably only going to get better over the next few years. I think it's safe to say Trouba would immediately become our best defenseman and quite possibly our best young roster player, period. (Granted, that's not saying much.) Of course, Svechnikov by himself wouldn't get us Trouba. You mention Orlov. A few of us discussed Orlov a few weeks ago, might've been in this very thread. If memory serves, everyone agreed that Orlov is very good and that he should be on the Wings' radar.

Trouba excelled in an expanded role this season. Logged big minutes, played in all situations, played against top talent, drove possession, put up points. He's 23, he's cost-controlled, and he's likely going to improve as a player in the coming years. Is he a proven #1 defenseman at this time? No. Nor is he a 28-year-old bottom-four power play specialist who's probably going to get 400 years x $500 billion from some drunk-ass GM.

FILAPOOLA

5-0 after 40 mins. GET REKT!

Yup. Duncan Keith - 54th overall (2002) Brent Seabrook - 14th overall (2003) Brent Burns - 20th overall (2003) Shea Weber - 49th overall (2003) Dustin Byfuglien - 245th overall (2003) Mike Green - 29th overall (2004) Alex Goligoski - 61st overall (2004) Mark Giordano - Undrafted (signed in 2004) Matt Niskanen - 28th overall (2005) Marc-Edouard Vlasic - 35th overall (2005) Kris Letang - 62nd overall (2005) Niklas Hjalmarsson - 108th overall (2005) Anton Stralman - 216th overall (2005) Ryan McDonagh - 12th overall (2007) Kevin Shattenkirk - 14th overall (2007) P.K. Subban - 43rd overall (2007) Jake Muzzin - 141st overall (2007) Tyler Myers - 12th overall (2008) Erik Karlsson - 15th overall (2008) Jake Gardiner - 17th overall (2008) John Carlson - 27th overall (2008) Roman Josi - 38th overall (2008) T.J. Brodie - 114th overall (2008) Jared Spurgeon - 156th overall (2008) Nick Leddy - 16th overall (2009) Dmitry Orlov - 55th overall (2009) Tyson Barrie - 64th overall (2009) Mattias Ekholm - 102nd overall (2009) Sami Vatanen - 106th overall (2009) Justin Faulk - 37th overall (2010) John Klingberg - 131st overall (2010) Dougie Hamilton - 9th overall (2011) Oscar Klefbom - 19th overall (2011) Brady Skjei - 20th overall (2012) Damon Severson - 60th overall (2012) Shayne Gostisbehere - 78th overall (2012) Torey Krug - Undrafted (signed in 2012) Brandon Carlo - 37th overall (2015) Jakub Chychrun - 16th overall (2016) tl;dr Fire your amateur scouting staff and outsource from 4chan.

Imagine you're Kevin Cheveldayoff. Ken Holland offers you Jimmy Howard, Gustav Nyquist, and Xavier Ouellet for Jacob Trouba. Do you A) pull the trigger, or B) say, "I know what you're trying to do and I don't like it," and hang up the phone?

Also: he's not a proven top-pairing defenseman, he's more of a bottom-four power play specialist. A good defenseman, yes, but the contract he gets is very likely going to be a big overpayment (unless he takes a discount to sign with the Rangers).

Roman Josi remains one of the most underappreciated players in the NHL.

Could Holland get a 2017 1st for Green, with little or no $$$ retained on our end? I think it's within the realm of possibility. Calgary, Toronto, Edmonton are potential fits. Should Holland trade Green for a 2017 1st? I'm not so sure. 2018's top 31 is shaping up to be ten times more tantalizing than this year's top 31 and Green might get us a 2018 1st at next year's trade deadline. Also, he's our best defenseman. Indeed, he's the only Red Wings defenseman who's shown that he can keep his head above water in a top-pairing role. If your best defensemen are Danny DeKeyser and Xavier Ouellet, you're shamelessly tanking and very likely hurting your young players' development (across all three positions -- F, D, G).

It's much easier to succeed in the AHL.

Don't think of it as cheering for the Sens. Think of it as cheering against the Pens.

Woo!!

yussssss

Go Perds!

https://www.russianmachineneverbreaks.com/2017/05/12/nastya-ovechkina-shares-grotesque-photo-of-a-bruise-on-alex-ovechkins-leg/#more-127902 Ow.

Pens-Caps kinda reminds me of that old Wings-Blues rivalry. The Blues had some really good teams and might've won a Cup or two had the Lidstrom Era Wings not been a thing.

I like Hague, but not at 9th overall.

False. I don't want business-as-usual. But I also don't want the extreme opposite, which is "Blow it up, trade the veterans, load the team with kids (regardless of whether they're ready or not), worship at the altar of the almighty Lottery Gods." I want Holland('s eventual replacement) to be shrewd. I want him to be patient, opportunistic. I want him to make moves when he can, when they make sense. I want him to make sure the team is getting younger, but I don't want him to force it. I'm fine with him aiming for the playoffs, as long as it's not at the expense of the future. I need to stress that we just missed the playoffs for the first time in 25 years. It's not like we've spent the past ten years missing the playoffs and drafting 15th overall at every draft. We're in the early stages of a rebuild. Being bad for a few seasons and getting a few seasons' worth of top ten picks doesn't happen in one season -- it happens over the course of *a few seasons*. We just had our first bad season. My hope is that we're bad for the next several years, without actively trying to suck. I'd be ok with drafting 6th overall in the next two or three drafts and adding a key piece or two via trade or free agency. It remains to be seen how Holland('s eventual replacement) is going to handle things, but I believe the status quo has already begun to change. Holland was a seller at the deadline. Lots of kids saw time with the big club and a number of them established themselves as regulars. The "It's all about making the playoffs. Playoffs or bust. This is a man's league. I don't believe you win with kids" thing probably isn't a thing anymore, even if Holland tells the media otherwise.

Are we headed towards a 2007 SCF rematch?

Clarification #2: When I say I worry that his effectiveness might be tied to the bigger ice surface, I'm mostly referring to the fact that he plays a certain way, succeeds in certain ways, is often able to make good things happen without doing things that he would absolutely have to do if he wants to have any real success at the NHL level. I think JoshMVP said it well: Pettersson’s biggest limiting factors are both related to his weight. While he has decent top speed, he isn’t an explosive skater and will need to improve on this as he continues his development. And second, his balance on his skates, particularly when going up against heavier opponents along the boards, could use some improvement as well. Both are areas that should improve as he adds muscle (he’s already added at least 10 pounds since last year). Watching some of his play at the WJC, it wasn’t uncommon for him to be on the ice or get muscled away from the puck if he wasn’t out in open spaces. Right now, he’s relying almost entirely on his stickwork, agility and puck skills to get the job done. I’d say he’s done pretty well for himself, but he could things to another level if he’s able to add more power to his game. My concern there is that B won't necessarily follow from A. That is, his game is not remotely a power game, and one could argue he's been as effective as he's been because he plays such a shifty finesse game on that big ice surface. So, it's not necessarily the case that he "just needs to get bigger and stronger and learn the pro North American game." I'm not especially fond of J.J. from Kansas (or WIIM, for that matter), but I'll quote something he posted in the comments section of that page I linked: Speaking as the resident dead horse pulverizer in regards to the small-is-beautiful side of the size vs. skill argument, I get nervous around the beanpole body type moreso than short guys simply because it’s easier to take advantage of size issues on guys who have more body against which to leverage. Drew Miller is kind of the perfect example of this. He’s 6’2", which is slightly above average, but I doubt that he plays at his listed weight of about 183. The Drew Miller who went three straight years with the Wings scoring double-digit goals had good instincts, played an actual 200 foot game, & was quite cerebral. If he could have gotten up to 200 pounds without losing what he was as a player, I think he could have been a pretty good middle-six forward. Unfortunately, he stayed lanky and that is a body type which is quite difficult to overcome. The other half of this equation is that for some people, it’s not just about eating enough protein and lifting enough weights. There are some guys who simply can’t bulk up. I’m not saying that’s this kid, but there are inherent risks in drafting a guy you think is going to hae a bigger body by the time he’s playing for you and then seeing that either he couldn’t bulk up OR that the bulking up he did cost him a lot of his agility. The "too skinny" thing is something that gets fixed in kids like this all the time, but it’s also something that can go catastrophically wrong with development… like a stocky guy who never gets over weak skating But, like I've said, I think Pettersson's talent and potential outweight the perceived risks.

I fully agree with this. That being said, I should clarify: I wouldn't say Pettersson's skating is problematic -- it just lacks some power, explosiveness. That's not an uncommon problem with players this age, even top talents like Pettersson. I'd be surprised if Pettersson didn't become a perfectly fine skater at the pro level.

Holy s***. Oilers blow three-goal lead in the final four minutes of regulation, Ducks win in 2OT. https://www.nhl.com/news/ducks-take-historic-measures-to-win-game-5/c-289301804?tid=287345756 Madness!

Pettersson's a natural centerman who can play wing. Taken together, all of his best qualities scream "centerman's centerman." Of course, I don't think we should be drafting for need in the first round anyway. We're in the early stages of a rebuild; we need everything. Well, everything except time. We've got lots and lots of time. (I'm not expecting us to become a contender within the next three years. Hoping, but not expecting.) Personally, I like Pettersson a lot. In terms of pure talent, he's easily in the top ten of this draft class. Dude is just stupid skilled. And, to me, he seems to possess that "special something" which sometimes allows nobodies to smash all limitations and exceed all expectations. And, being a Swedish centerman, he already plays a very mature two-way game. The concerns: he's extremely thin (for a highly rated hockey prospect in his draft year), he's easily outmuscled, and his skating needs work. I do worry that his effectiveness is fundamentally tied to the bigger European ice surface. A bulked up Pettersson playing on the smaller North American surface and being forced to fight through tight checking on every single shift might be a very different and significantly less effective player than the one we're looking at today and the one we'd hope he becomes. But I come back to the undeniable fact that he is enormously talented and to my belief that he possesses certain special qualities that simply can't be taught. I would argue he's talented enough -- and his potential is great enough -- that he'd be well worth whatever perceived risk we'd be taking by selecting him ninth overall.