Dabura

I'm not a fan of this deal. We overpaid for a middle-pairing defenseman who hasn't demonstrated top-end ability. His basic stats are underwhelming, his advanced stats are awful (granted, brutal deployment is probably a contributing factor there), and he has no extraordinary quality/skill/characteristic that separates him from the pack of good-but-not-great NHL defensemen. At this point in time, he's a #3 or #4 defenseman. That we consider him our best defenseman is a testament to how horribly inadequate our blue line is.

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2016/07/red_wings_would_like_to_acquir.html

Unfortunately, I don't think Nyquist + Pulkkinen gets it done. Trouba's an exceptional young player who's only going to get better over the next few years. He has real #1D potential. Cheveldayoff would be justified in asking for Tatar/Nyquist + Mantha/Athanasiou/Svechnikov.

Man, that series was such a roller coaster ride.

David Poile is a beast.

I don't consider Brunner a bust. Not a whole lot was expected of him and he was decently effective in his short stint with us. For a very short time, the line of Nyquist-Andersson-Brunner was kinda sorta awesome.

Holland has never truly admitted that a trade has to happen. He's been saying the same "Y'know, we'd like to make a trade, BUT..." crap since Rafalski retired. The problem is not that trading is hard. The problem is, in a word, Holland. He doesn't do impact trades. He doesn't have any real interest in shaking things up. Again I say: The Wings have made less than 25 trades since 2005. That's far and away the fewest of any team. The Devils are second from the bottom with 50 trades. Ken Holland does not care about solving real problems and making meaningful changes and meaningful improvements and icing a truly solid team. Ken Holland cares about maintaining the status quo. AA and Mantha could be fourth-liners. We could roll four scoring lines. But, instead, our fourth line is going to be Miller-Glendening-Ott. Because the Wings are run by assholes.

A catch-22 is a paradoxical situation from which an individual cannot escape because of contradictory rules. An example would be: To apply for a job, you need to have a few years of experience. But in order to gain experience, you need to get a job first.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2016/07/25/wings-mrazek-far-apart-arbitration-date-nears/87528646/

This isn't Ovechkin we're talking about. Larkin would get you Kucherov. Yzerman would pull that trigger in a heartbeat. Stamkos, Johnson, Larkin, Filppula as your four horsemen centermen? Uh, yes plz.

Zetterberg could be one of the better 3rd-line centermen in the league. We could roll Larkin-Nielsen-Zetterberg-Sheahan down the middle. But that won't happen. Because Red Wings.

I would absolutely care. These are good young players. Their trade value/"hype" has been "GREATLY diminished" because the Wings are run by assholes.

See, the biggest source of my frustration is that I do feel he has the necessary pieces -- I just think he lacks the will, desire, creativity, cojones, etc. to actually Get It Done. It's complacency, risk-aversion, hoarding. It's arrogance. It's laziness. It's outdated, provincial thinking. It's everything, and it continues to result in a whole lot of nothing. Over the past eleven years, no team has made fewer trades. The Wings' official count is, I believe, 23. The Devils are second from the bottom with something like 50.

The Nielsen signing was absolutely necessary. I'm just painting an overall picture. We signed three past-their-prime veterans (at least one of which we absolutely, positively do not need in any way, shape or form) and re-signed two past-their-prime veterans (at least one of which we absolutely, positively do not need in any way, shape or form). I see a lot of people looking at these signings and saying a trade must be coming. I look at these signings and ask, "How is this any different from last year, or the year before that, or the year before that, or the year before that?" http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/41032-Campbell-Brent-Burns-trade-moves-Sharks-closer-to-Stanley-Cup.html That was five years ago. We're still waiting on That Trade for That Defenseman.

I think you're taking that comment -- which, for what it's worth, was put in parantheses for a reason -- slightly the wrong way. I wasn't really hardcore disagreeing with you about anything. You said you have to think Ken Holland went into this summer with a surplus of forwards "to make a trade." I think that's a perfectly reasonable stance...but, at the same time, we know what the status quo in Red Wings World is (we see it maintained every year now, like clockwork) and I'm not sure I see any real evidence that Holland is consciously, actively, deliberately, methodically attempting to shake things up. I think it's entirely possible that he signed and re-signed some past-their-prime veterans because that's just what he does. I have trouble truly believing he's going to make an impact trade, because he doesn't do impact trades. What he and the diggers and the national media are all saying about the possibility of such a trade is stuff we've all heard before countless times over the past several years. For me, it's hard not to be intensely cynical and pessimistic about the state of the Wings under Ken Holland's "leadership."

Or he just wants to maintain the status quo, i.e. the huge brick wall separating kids from the roster. We could've gone younger, but we signed Nielsen, Vanek, and Ott, and we re-signed Helm and Miller. (Note that none of these players will be traded. We all know this.) That, to me, doesn't sound like angling for a trade. That sounds like making sure there are 500 degrees of separation between Athanasiou, Mantha, Nosek, Bertuzzi and full-time NHL duty. Because Red Wings.

I'm not really sure what you're saying.

It'll be Fowler, Edler, Quincey, or Tyutin. Because Red Wings. The thing that continues to piss me off: I know there are deals out there, ready to be made. We all know it, whether we want to admit it or not. This whole "trades are impossible" situation isn't about other GMs asking for far too much, it's about Holland being completely and utterly unwilling to part with a single significant asset. (Unless we're getting an over-the-hill rental at the trade deadline, in which case Holland will give away young assets like they're going out of style. Because Red Wings.) I mean, sure, things would be easier -- on multiple fronts -- if we had more pieces that other GMs find decidedly super-attractive, but you know what those pieces tend to be? Young, hugely talented high-end players. The kind Holland actively hates, because "They don't know how to play without the puck" and because "Kids aren't the answer" and blah blah f****** blah. Because Red Wings.

Same here. I'm ok with kids having to earn their ice time. I'm not ok with how the Wings go about enforcing this policy. It's like something out of a Joseph Heller novel... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catch-22_(logic) (Catch-22 is one of the greatest novels ever written, IMHO.) Exactly. I hate the Helm extension and the Glendening extension, largely for this very reason.

I doubt it. "Y'know, we only missed the playoffs by a couple points. If we win one more shootout, we're probably in. And once you're in, you've got as good a chance as any other playoff team. At the end of the day, we're a team in transition. We like our team. I know there are people who want us to tank, but I've never bought into that kind of thinking. We're gonna keep doing what we've been doing. We're not going to blow everything up because we missed the playoffs by a couple points." We'd have to miss the playoffs by a country mile. (And even then, I dunno.) If it's close, we stick with the status quo. Because Red Wings. Our best/only hope: kids. More specifically, we need a new prime-years Datsyuk and a new prime-years Zetterberg. I think Larkin is (going to be) that good. I think Athanasiou has that kind of top-end potential. I think Mantha can grow into a new prime-years Franzen. I've always felt Mrazek has Vezina potential. I think Saarijarvi is an elite talent. But it's probably going to be several years before Holland and Blashill are willing to truly hand the keys over to the next generation. Because kids have to "earn it," or some such bulls***.

It's not a black-or-white, all-or-nothing issue. Holland's making it one, but it's not one (or, it shouldn't be one). The team needs more youth. It doesn't need all youth. It needs more youth. And more skill, more talent, more high-end ability. Greater possession prowess. Goal scoring. Being able to play without the puck. Young legs. Size. These are things we're lacking. These are things that an Athanasiou or a Mantha can provide, and for a dirt-cheap cap hit--and neither of these players has even come close to hitting his respective ceiling yet. We're looking more and more like the Canadiens, and that's not a good thing. It's a bad thing. All this garbage about Grit and Character and Experience and Playing Without the Puck and Veteran Leadership and Knowing Your Place and Earning Your [insert whatever the hell it is you're supposed to be "earning"] -- it's all bulls***. And, accordingly, we'll be lucky to make the playoffs this season, just like 2015-16, 2014-15, 2013-14, 2012-13.

But this isn't the NBA. Kind of a moot point, though, because we know Holland won't trade him. (Because he's from Michigan.)

He's going to re-sign Quincey. That'll be his excuse for not making a trade. "Well, we feel Kyle Quincey is a real good player in this league. Real good defensively. Heavy on the puck. Big body. Plays with a bit of an edge. He can play on any pairing. He's versatile like that. We feel he's a real important part of our team and he's going to continue to be one as we move forward and compete for a Cup." asdfasdfasdfkillmenow

hahahahahahahahahahahaha Ken Holland needs to go. Now. The Red Wings fetishize stupid things that don't -- or barely -- contribute to winning.