Dabura

Sorting Out the P.K. Subban Signing [sean McIndoe, Grantland]

True.

I'm not saying, "The rebuild was a success! Hallelujah!" I'm just saying it's a thing, and it's been going on for probably at least the past three years, and it's still going on, and we should start reaping some benefits this season. And if we don't reap any benefits, and if nothing comes of all this but failure, then we have a serious problem and I'm going to revert to what I normally do, which is piss and moan. Then I'll be right there with you, DeGraa. Right. These past several years have been the first real hiccup in about 20 years. It's the cap and parity catching up to us. The last time we rebuilt, we had carry-over players like Lidstrom and Draper, and we'd managed to find two franchise players in Datsyuk and Zetterberg, and we weren't deep into the cap era. That it'd be harder this time was an inevitability. But I think the worst is actually over, which, if true, means our lowest point in about 15-20 years still saw us making the playoffs. And, like I've noted before, we've had some pretty s*** luck with postseason matchups, drawing two really good Sharks teams that had our number, a Predators team that had our number, a really good Ducks team (which we defeated), an elite Blackhawks team (which we nearly defeated), and an elite Bruins team. Granted, if you finish in seventh or eighth, you're getting what you deserve, which is a team that's superior to yours. But, still, I feel like we've been better than our recent results (mostly the past two seasons) would suggest. That, to me, is encouraging and gives me reason to be at least cautiously optimistic that we're going to see the start of something great in the next couple of seasons and that we could be back to seriously contending as early as 2016-17. Which would be pretty incredible, all things considered. I really like our prospect pool and the young roster talent. I don't feel we have a Datsyuk or a Lidstrom, but we do have an overall stronger collection of young players than we're used to. Smith, DeKeyser. Nyquist, Tatar, Sheahan. Jurco, Pulkkinen, Mantha, Athanasiou. Marchenko, Ouellet, Sproul, Backman, Jensen. Mrazek. Good things are coming our way, IMHO.

A minor thing I just wanted to clear up: when I say "basement" I mean bottom of the conference. That we could slide that far down is pretty much a non-possibility, IMO. Here's a decent piece which, I think, sort of echoes the point I and others are making about the Wings' "five year drought": Road to Recovery: How the Sharks are Rebuilding [The Hockey Writers]

Wow, that's terribe. Hope all goes smoothly for him. Did they know about this before they signed Del Zotto? If not, crazy timing.

They were in need of a puck-moving offensive defenseman, and they tend not to discriminate much when it comes to adding new blood. Makes sense. Also, he probably doesn't like the Rangers.

Nicklas Lidstrom.

Another name I might add to this list: Ryan Ellis. Preds fans seem to believe it's pretty much a given that he's going to be moved. Also, maybe Dennis Wideman. He's more of a second-pairing guy, though. I still like Byfuglien.

It'd absolutely be the end of the world for the Canadiens if they were to lose Subban. I mean, I get what you're saying about Chicago, and you have a point, but the Habs' fanbase was having a nuclear meltdown during arbitration because they thought they might be losing Subban. All their hopes and dreams rest on him and Price, really. (Even Bob McKenzie and Elliotte Friedman were fanning the flames of fear.) And, again, he's just a very likable person, a great ambassador for the team and for the NHL and hockey in general and even Canada, and one of the best hockey players in the world. He's certainly right up there with Toews and Kane in terms of his importance to his team (and to the NHL in terms of marketing). Chicago doesn't have the crazy hockey culture the Habs have, true, but a generational franchise player is a generational franchise player. The Habs lost one of those in Roy. For that to happen all over again with Subban? Riots in the streets of Montreal. As for the contract itself and the comparisons to Doughty and Weber, each of those deals was reached a few years ago, so you can't really compare them. This deal may be a wee bit high right now, but it's an eight year deal. The cap will be rising, which means inflation, which means the deeper we get into the contract, the better the value. And, of course, the only reason the term is eight years is the new CBA. Were this pre-new CBA, the term would be longer and the yearly hit would be spread out more, so it wouldn't be $9M every year.

P.K. Subban's one of the very best best defensemen - if not hockey players, period - in the world, not to mention a quality guy. I'd say 9 X 8 is about right.

I think both the Bolts and Habs are going to be scary in a few years. But the Habs are probably closer right now. Price is arguably the best goalie in the league. Subban's one of the best defensemen in the league and is only going to get better. (I love P.K. Subban. I just do.) Pacioretty's basically a 40-goal scorer and he, like Subban, is only 25. Galchenyuk is a serious talent, Gallagher's good, Eller's a solid 3C who may become a solid 2C. And they also have Markov, who's very underrated, IMHO. If they find a really legit 1C, they're gonna be scary. Man, I hate the Atlantic Division already. #IWantTheMetro

I think you could also make a case for the Lightning, Canadiens, Blue Jackets, Avalanche.

To be clear... I don't necessarily believe things are going to go especially well for the Wings this season. The point I'm trying to make is this: for all the issues the Wings have, the teams that are, generally, considered tops in the East really aren't much better than the Wings, maybe not even better at all when you really get down to it (unless we're talking about the Bruins, who are among the best in the league because they have Chara, Bergeron, Rask, Lucic, Krejci, et al.) I'm not justifying Ken Holland's inaction. If anything, I feel the conference being wide open almost makes him beholden to bring in a quality player or two that could give us a shot in the arm and maybe help us gain an edge over the other playoff-worthy teams. Nor am I saying there aren't some very good teams in the East. I do think the Habs are slightly better than the Wings, but the key word is "slightly." It wasn't so long ago that we were all jacked up about a possible first-round date with the Penguins. We truly felt the Wings could take the Penguins out, and Penguins fans were praying for Columbus, and then the Hurricanes happened. Hell, like I said before, it wasn't so long ago that we took out an excellent Ducks team and almost did the same to an even better Blackhawks team, all with a roster that I feel was inferior to what we have now. And y'know what else? A part of me wants us to finish in the basement so we can, hopefully, snag a genuinely elite prospect, maybe even one who could make an immediate impact. Hell, I probably wouldn't be totally opposed to tanking for a shot at a generational talent. So it's not like I'm in denial about where we stand. I just think this Wings team is better than this past season says we are. So much went wrong for us, but we squeaked into the playoffs. What if so much were to go right for us this season? Answer: we wouldn't be squeaking into the playoffs. What if even just a couple of the things that went wrong for us in 2013-14 were to go right for us in 2014-15? Answer: we wouldn't be squeaking into the playoffs. I'm cautiously optimistic. I think that's the way to go.

Troll harder.

The Bruins don't match up very well against the Habs. Any time those two play, it can go either way. That's pretty much what we saw in their *seven-game* series - it could've gone either way. If the Bruins advance, they beat the Rangers and they make their second consecutive appearance in the Stanley Cup Finals. For the most part, this team is toying with its conference and most of the West. They didn't get it done, but that doesn't mean they're not a powerhouse. The Wings were a powerhouse for the better part of two straight decades, but with that territory comes a lot of disappointment, as we all know. As to your other point - I'll believe that most of the conference got better and is going to shove the Wings down into the basement when I see it unfold that way. Until then, I'm saying, as someone who's practically a LGW pioneer in the art of being hopelessly cynical and pessmistic about the Wings, that a healthy Wings team is right there with the likes of the Penguins, Rangers, Lightning, et al. and will challenge for a top seed.

I bet Mike Vernon gives P.K. a call.

McKenzie: https://twitter.com/TSNBobMcKenzie

The Canadiens are on the brink of a franchise altering mistake with P.K. Subban [Eyes on the Prize]

I mean, seriously, think about it: Datsyuk and Zetterberg (by far our best players) each played half a season. And Weiss basically didn't play. And we still made the playoffs!!!

I like you, frank, but I just can't get behind this. You're saying that at our best - which, as 2013 showed, is really quite good - we barely squeak into the playoffs in the weak East, and, to me, that's giving the conference way too much credit. I get that there's this narrative that we're barely clinging to life and THIS is the season that the playoff streak comes to an end, but I think it's largely just that - a narrative. Had we added Datsyuk in free agency, people would be saying, "Holy s***, Zetterberg and Datsyuk?! And they've got all these young studs like Nyquist?! This team's gonna be GREAT!" In fact, going into last season, a lot of the "experts" had us down for second or third in the Atlantic. Did we learn this past season that the conference is super-tough? No, we got destroyed by stupid-ass injuries - and, even then, we still made the playoffs. The Bruins are an elite contender. They're a team built to win the Cup, and I'm not sure we stand a chance against them in the playoffs even with a healthy roster. But the Bruins are the only powerhouse in the Eastern Conference. Behind them are the Penguins, who feasted on a terrible division and didn't seem like world-beaters any of the times we played them; maybe the Rangers, who were lucky to make it to the Finals and are probably a weaker team this season (losing Pouliot and Boyle and Stralman is a big blow for them and they know it); maybe the Canadiens, who were terrible for stretches this past season and are, I think, entirely dependent on their goalie (look at their roster. Tell me, with a straight face, that they're much deeper and much more formidable than us); maybe the Lightning, who are setting themselves up for great success in the future but aren't there yet and very likely overachieved this past season because Bishop played out of his mind (remember: they lost him for the first round and the Habs streamrolled them); and I'm not even going to mention the Flyers or Capitals or Leafs or Senators or Devils or Hurricanes. I believe the East is wide, wide open. I don't believe the Wings are truly a fringe team. Think of all the points we pissed away. We get a few of those back, and we're not an 8th seed. I can't imagine we don't substantially improve on this past season.

The Wings are one season removed from beating an excellent Ducks team in seven and choking against an even better Blackhawks team. Those Ducks and Blackhawks were better than any of the current Eastern teams, aside from maybe the Bruins. That Wings team wasn't much better than what we have right now, maybe not better at all. What it had - at least in the playoffs - was Datsyuk, Zetterberg, a surprise third line, a red-hot Jimmy Howard, and the underdog thing. Smith and Quincey were disasters, and they'll be better this season. DeKeyser was getting his first taste of NHL action, wasn't as good as he's going to be this season. Kindl was overachieving. Andersson and Brunner were key contributors. Flip had already checked out. All of this and more tells me we can do damage in the East, we just need to be "healthy and humming," as I like to put it. You mention we weren't very good this past season even when we were healthy. I've made that point before, but I don't know if I really buy it. All teams have ups and downs. You can't really look at a few games and say that's our team. Or, if you're going to say that, you have to look at the bad and the good, and I think being able to say we choked against the Blackhawks in the second round in 2013 is, while not really something to be proud of, a "good" thing. I feel like if we're talking up a team like the Rangers or Pens, we're just doing it to do it, we don't necessarily believe what we're saying. Like, having seen The Mighty Rangers and Canadiens and Penguins and Lightning in action in the playoffs a few months ago, did you find yourself saying, "Damn! These teams are great! No way do the Wings compete with them in a best of seven"? Bulls***. I'm not crazy about the Wings, but not for one second will I believe that a Wings team *that has its s*** together* (that's the key, of course) isn't in the discussion for a top seed in the conference. We had what was in many ways a miserable season, but I'm still not remotely scared of the East (except for maybe the Bruins). None of us should be. I can't stress this enough.

I was so incredibly pumped up for 2013-14. And we know how that went. So I'm gonna be cautiously optimistic this time around. The nice thing is that the youth means things are more up-in-the-air than they've been in quite some time. With a heavily veteran team (and, granted, we're still a heavily veteran team), you know what you have, you know what you're getting - the ceiling is more or less set in place. The high-end youth we have gives us a bit of an x-factor. We can hope, dream. There's room for didn't-see-that-coming craziness, e.g. Sheahan killling it. Beyond that, almost everything that could've gone wrong for the Wings this past season went wrong. If we see improvement on even just a couple of those fronts, we should be a better team for it. Weiss, for example. Yes, a healthy Weiss is like a big acquisition. I hate that it fits Kenny's favorite rationalization narrative, but it's true. Howard can't be much worse than he was. Quincey singlehandedly cost us games in the first half; the hope, of course, is that he plays more like he did in the second half. (He was pretty good before we re-acquired him.) Z and D should be much healthier. Smith should be improved. Etc. Arguably the biggest thing going in our favor is that the Eastern Conference looks wide open, a welcome change after all those years in the tougher Western Conference. (It's been the better conference for a long time, folks.) I don't buy that the Rangers, Canadiens, Penguins, or Lightning are really any better than a healthy Wings team that has its s*** together.

For the record, Randy Carlyle is an impossibly awful coach. There've been countless looks into the matter (granted, with a fancy stats leaning), and they all scream that he doesn't know what the hell he's doing beyond telling his team to TRY HARDER!!! and BRING UP THEIR COMPETE LEVEL!!! and SHOW SOME HEART!!! and SLASH THE GUY!!! He won the Cup on the back of two generational defensemen in Niedermayer and Pronger and ever since then he's been exposed pretty much left and right, at least to anyone who bothers to really get into the numbers. If I understand correctly, the "problems" with Gardiner stem from Carlyle not understanding what he has in Gardiner and not using him the way he ought to. The dumb-ass local media picks up on that, and suddenly he's a borderline "problem player" in many people's eyes. A kid who needs to "pay his dues" or something before The Coach can really trust him. On that same note, Phaneuf is actually a really decent defenseman, not so different from Kronwall (aka the backbone of our own team at this point in time). Carlyle runs him into the ground, using him for a huge number of defensive zone starts when that's not necessarily his strong point. I give the guy credit. I don't know that there are many defensemen in this league who could take his spot and not look terribad. On a side note, I hate that the Leafs are now making smart moves. What in the flying f*** is this world coming to when the Leafs have a better summer than the Wings?!

Totally agree. I just mentioned Kane because, right now, he's one of the exceedingly few top-end players who's genuinely likely to be moved at some point in the next few years, and I think he has the potential to be one of the very best players in the world. Like I've said a couple times in recent weeks, the guy's produced like Patrick Kane had at his age (literally, the respective point totals are very close), and he's done it on an inferior team and with inferior linemates. I see him as a franchise player waiting to be plucked up by a team that actually knows what it's doing. There's nothing to say we couldn't be that team. I'd rather get a right-shot top-pairing defenseman, sure. But who? We'll probably target Mike Green in free agency next summer or maybe at the trade deadline this season. I guess Petry might be an option. I don't much care for Boychuck. There've been some grumblings in Ducks Land that the Stoner signing might be "the final nail in the coffin" for Vatanen's future with the Ducks, but I don't really buy that. I think Sproul is a future all-star who could make a difference right now if sheltered on the third pairing with Ericsson and given lots of power play time. Backman might surprise everyone; he looked really good in his short stint with the Griffins. Our situation at center is weird. Like I said, we look fairly deep right now, but I don't think we necessarily are. So, I agree that we'd be wise to look for a young high-end center, but I fear the urgency isn't going to be there until the eleventh hour or later.

Isn't Babs a Spokane alumnus? Maybe he's having some kind mid-life crisis?