Dabura

Y'know, I've been pushing this line of thought lately, but, as with many of the things I post here, I'm not sure I fully believe it. (Yes, I actually just said that.) Like, when we say we won't stand a chance, what do we actually mean? Won't stand a chance against an elite team in a best of seven? OK, sure. But how many elite teams are there in the East? One? True, we haven't done jack in the playoffs in years, but look at who we've faced since '09: a couple really good Sharks teams, a really good Ducks team, a really good Blackhawks team, and a really good Bruins team. True, this current roster might be the shakiest Wings team we've seen in ages, but I like its chances against any Eastern Conference team not named the Bruins or Islanders. We barely made the dance this past season, but it wasn't necessarily because we're just that bad. If we stay relatively healthy, if Weiss contributes, if Howard comes anywhere close to earning his ridiculous contract, if we don't piss away leads, if we don't suck mercilessly at the shootout, if we don't suck mercilessly at home, if Smith keeps his head out of his ass, if Quincey doesn't singlehandedly cost us twelve points in the standings, if our power play isn't totally impotent, if one of the rookie defensemen can give us something we've been lacking on the back end, if Mantha can chip in, if Cleary doesn't return - if any one or two of those things can happen, it'll be huge for us. I want to believe we can do some damage this season. I have to belive it.

http://kuklaskorner.com/tmr/comments/khan-pleiness-red-wings-are-indeed-about-to-sign-tomas-nosek-to-a-2-year-de This'll probably be moved to the rumors forum, but what the hell.

You're smarter than this. Understanding the hows and whys behind the final outcomes is everything.

I don't believe he's dropped off. I think the Jets just suck. He'd come with some baggage, but the guy would be a fantastic add.

http://www.arcticicehockey.com/2014/5/21/5733314/pilots-logbook-2013-14-dustin-byfuglien

Yup. Though, I wouldn't be surprised if it was Marchenko's idea. When you're looking to make a jump to the next level but you're also coming off a season-ending injury, you're gonna want to do as much as you can to get back to where you were. If it's up to me (and, believe it or not, it isn't), Marchenko is my #6 on opening night, assuming the candidates more or less show as expected in training camp. I look at Olli Maatta and how he's sort of changed the game for the Pens to the point where they could lose Ehrhoff for nothing next summer (after having lost Niskanen and Orpik for nothing this summer) and not really care. Marchenko's a fairly similar player with, I think, a very high ceiling.

I think there's been some confusion about the asking price for Myers. Someone, might've been Helene, tweeted the asking price as something like Nyquist/Tatar/Jurco and some people flipped out because they took / to mean +. My guess is it'd be your typical [good roster player] + [good prospect] + [high pick]. Byfuglien would absolutely fill a hole or two or several on our back end. He shoots right, he's a beast on the power play, he's built like a truck, he hits like a truck, and he can generate offense. And if he doesn't work, put him on Datsyuk's wing. Having said all that, I imagine the price would be fairly steep. While every old angry white guy in Winnipeg hates "Big Buff," they all know he's an important part of their team and moving him only makes sense if they're getting something pretty damn good in return. You don't know what you're talking about, frank.

You were the first thing that popped into my mind. The second thing was BOBROVSKY. My mind is a scary place.

Giroux is clutch. And grab.

Yeah, I think Kindl should be moved and the kids should get to fight over that 6D spot, with the understanding that each of them will likely get a look in that role at some point in the season and that the inevitable injuries could blow things wide open. I might even try Marchenko with Kronwall. I like Smith with Kronwall, but we're basing that on a small sample size. Can Smith go up against the opposition's best every night, all season long? (Not that I'm sure Marchenko can. Just an idea.) Ideally, Ericsson is on the second or third pairing. That's just the kind of defenseman he is. I do like his size for our top four, though, and his $4.25M cap hit would, at some point, have the kids thinking, "Well s***, if being a steady #5 can get me that much..." That's Dave Tippett, but it could just as easily be Mike Babcock or Darryl Sutter. It's the new school, popularized by the Wings teams of '08 and '09 and, more recently, the Kings. When someone asks Darryl Sutter what it is about his team that makes them so good defensively, and he deadpans that it's easy when your team is never forced to defend, he's not joking. And he's right. Erik Karlsson isn't a stud in his end, but there's more to being a defenseman than defending. P.K. Subban isn't a stud in his end, but there's more to being a defenseman than defending. Datsyuk isn't a 50-goal scorer, but there's more to being an elite 1C than scoring goals. When our top three was Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, we didn't spend time in our end and therefore never had to defend. And it wasn't just that we'd "get the puck out." The second we regained possession (i.e. pretty much any time we had the puck, anywhere on the ice), we were thinking attack. We moved northward with poise and purpose and precision and propulsive, predatory intent. It wasn't "We escaped from our zone!" It was "Here comes the boom." Our breakouts, our rushes, our transition game - everything was about being on the offensive. That was the foundation of our game. That was the key to our dominance. That was Red Wings hockey. We lost it, we haven't meaningfully addressed the loss, and now, accordingly, we're losers. Mike Green, while maybe not ideal, would be a step in the right direction. He'd give us something we don't have and sorely need. Saying he can't play defense is missing the point. Saying Kindl can move the puck is missing the point. Saying we have some promising kids who might be top-four material in a few years is missing the point. We have three years left with Datsyuk. What's keeping us from giving him a legitimate shot at another Cup is the fact that our defense doesn't generate any offense, doesn't move the puck especially well at all.

Whoops, I made a goof. I was talking about the sixth spot, not the seventh. My bad.

Kronwall Ericsson DeKeyser Quincey Smith Kindl Lashoff Woof.

Actually, what am I saying. Kindl will be our #6. Barf.

Realistically, though, we're gonna use the 6D spot as a revolving door for the kids, and I'm more than ok with that. My only beef, in re: Quinceygate, is that one of those other spots is going to be occupied by Quincey, who will be playing huge minutes because he's getting paid relatively big money. I would've much preferred having two rookies on the back end.

Mike Green can put up points, he can run a power play (give him Alfredsson or Pulkkinen), he's a right-handed shot, his trade value is low, he's on the right side of 30, and he's in a contract year. At the right price, he's worth a shot. I get that every time someone mentions Mike Green someone has to say OMG HE CAN'T PLAY DEFENSE, but our blue line's biggest need isn't actually "better defending," it's moving the puck out of our zone, driving play the other way, generating offense, putting up points, running an effective power play. We have some pretty steady guys in Ericsson, DeKeyser, Marchenko, and Ouellet, and we're generally better than the Caps on the D side of the puck. We have to move some bodies out anyway.

The Caps barely missed the playoffs, beat us in all three of our meetings this season, and now have an infinitely superior coach (Oates alone was enough to sink their season) and a top four of Carlson, Niskanen, Green, Orpik, which means they'll actually be able to defend a lick and that their power play will probably be as ludicrous as ever. Also, Ovie will be playing with an unholy chip on his shoulder. I like their chances of making the playoffs. That, theoretically, hurts our chances. In our division... Boston will be a powerhouse, because of course they will. TB added Garrison and Stralman and have all they need (including a bad taste in their mouths from their embarrassing first-round defeat) to be an extremely competitive team and an absolute ***** to play against. And don't forget about Jonathan Drouin. Stamkos and Drouin terrorizing Quincey. That'll be fun. Montreal should be slightly better. Parenteau is an upgrade over Briere, Gilbert gives their blue line a little more punch, Galchenyuk should be healthy, Subban will continue to grow, Gionta was always a lame captain, and the whole team will surely rally around some bulls*** "We were cheated; this time it's personal" mentality. Buffalo should be slightly better. Reinhart and stuff. Florida should be better. Ekblad and two Wings-hating chumps in Thornton and Bolland, and stuff. Toronto should be slightly better. Ottawa will be terrible. We have to hope that a relatively healthy Wings team is, in fact, a formidable one.

Is he delusional? Or is he soft tanking?

I agree somewhat, but mostly I think that's a copout. Firstly, while we didn't start with Kane and Toews and Doughty, we did start with Datsyuk and Zetterberg and Lidstrom. Secondly, a bunch of top-five picks doesn't necessarily get you anything, as the Oilers have demonstrated. Even if a couple generational talents fall into your lap, you still have to build a team around them. The Kings didn't draft Williams or Carter or Richards or Gaborik or Stoll or Mitchell or Greene or Penner or Regehr. Thirdly, having said all that, what does it matter that those teams were terrible forever if we were able to get Datsyuk and Zetterberg while Lidstrom was still at the top of his game? Fourthly, I dislike this "We've taken the high road. We've done it the right way" angle. Like, I get it, and I marvel at it...but we all know it's a little dishonest. Were the Wings not terrible for years and years and years and years and years? Did we not draft Yzerman fourth overall? Have all of our decisions and strategies been full of integrity? meh

Don't get me wrong, I don't necessarily disagree with anything you're saying. And, admittedly, I'm kinda cheating here. I can't say I'd like to strangle Holland and then turn around and say, "You know what I mean..." But I do think we have to really ask ourselves, What is it about Ken Holland that gets him a vote of confidence from us even now? Is he really, truly a top GM in today's league? Is this a guy who could do for the Islanders what Jim Nill and Steve Yzerman are doing for the Stars and Lightning? Would he have gotten the Bruins their Cup? Would he have gotten the Blackhawks their two Cups in four years (and counting)? Would he have gotten the Kings their two Cups in three years (and counting)? Would he have turned the Habs from a bottom basement team into a top team in the East? Would the Jets be making the playoffs every season with him at the helm? Would it almost certainly be a grave mistake for the Wings to go with a GM not named Ken Holland?

Another thing about Quincey: we can't even say that he's just here to make the kids earn their ice. He's making close to what Kronwall's making. He's our answer to the hole in our top four. Our top four is Kronwall-Ericsson, DeKeyser-Quincey. Utter insanity.

The thing with Quincey is he's redundant (never mind overpaid and bad at defense). We have "defensive defensemen" who shoot left and don't up points and don't generate offense and don't do much of anything especially well. And we have the kids. This signing is another 180. Holland says one thing then turns around, in a panic, and doubles down on the exact opposite course of action.

You know what I meant, zombo. I'm not actually saying Ken Holland doesn't know how to field a good team in the cap era. I'm saying you do have to wonder just how good this guy really is at his job and just how much credit he really deserves. The pre-Cap era was, I dare say, mostly easy for him. That carried over to the first few years of the cap era - specifically, 2006-2009. We still had some core pieces from the 90s teams, and we got pretty lucky with Datsyuk and Zetterberg. We've been in decline since 2009, and the argument can definitely be made that it's because Holland is being forced to prove his mettle in a landscape that doesn't grant his organization any intrinsic advantages. It's new ground for him, and he doesn't seem especially comfortable. The huge competitive advantages are disappearing. Stealing Russians. Scouting the most obscure corners of Scandinavia. Limitless spending. Having depth left over from those days of limitless spending. Having Nick Lidstrom. Knowing puck possession is everything. He can't lean on this stuff anymore. We're not ahead of the curve anymore. I want to believe that the past five years have been a rebuild. That he realized the best thing this team could do is be good but not great and build up a stable of promising young talent through the draft. But even there, Holland has done so much that suggests he doesn't really have a plan or vision. He'll offer Suter and Parise the moon, and then, on losing the bidding war, turn around and say that there's no hockey store and you have to build through the draft and blah blah blah. He'll say it's the kids' time, and then he'll re-sign Quincey and Cleary and Gustavsson and Alfredsson and almost surely start Jurco and Mantha in GR. Nill and Yzerman have done wonders for their respective organizations. They've been proactive, they've thought outside the box, they've made some hard decisions, they've taken risks. They've built something out of mostly nothing. Those teams are damn good, and they're only going to get better. They could've easily made excuses and said this is going to be a long process and half the teams in the league don't make the playoffs and blah blah blah. They know what needs to be done and they're doing it. Meanwhile, the Wings are stuck in the mud. Our two best players are old and injury prone, and that's not counting Franzen or Alfredsson or Kronwall. Howard hasn't won anything but he's getting paid like a top goalie. Kindl's cap hit is $2.4M for the next three years. No one wants to sign with the Red Wings, and Holland's response is, "I don't know why this is happening. But I'm not remotely worried. (Because I'm Ken Holland and everyone knows I'm a genius. Ask Helene, she'll tell you.)"

Dan Cleary will be owner, GM, and coach by then.

A thought: didn't Holland lowball Suter and Parise initially? Maybe that's the practice that's turning people away. You lowball someone, that pisses them off, then you ultimately say you'll give them more, but you've lowballed them and now you seem desperate and they'd probably love nothing more than to throw it in your face, provided they have good offers elsewhere. I don't think Kenny knows how to be competitive in the cap era. Things have to happen on his terms, at his pace. Free agents have to fall into his lap, practically beg to sign with the Wings. Half the team has to be injured for our most promising kids to get a good solid look.

No. He's going to score 65 goals in training camp. And then he's going to break Selanne's rookie scoring record. I need something to believe in. I need hope.