Dabura

Actually, The Twilight Zone is the best explanation I can come up with.

So insanely glad we won this one. We showed some real backbone, resilience. F*** yeah.

I turned the game off when they scored their second goal. And - I kid you not - I joked to myself, "Kronwall's gonna get the karmic equalizer and we're gonna win in a shootout." What I'm saying is, you're welcome.

Oh, come on, man. You know I'm "prepared for discussion of the pros and cons." At the same time, I was pretty explicit about these being fairly unrealistic - though not impossible - ideas. And there's a lot of disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing in this thread. (I myself am probably guilty on a few counts.) The Wings aren't a tough defenseman away from being Cup favorites. But we need a top-four defenseman. Dan Girardi is a top-four defenseman on an expiring contract who hasn't been performing up to his standards and has been the subject of trade rumors. And whose current cap hit is a comfy $3.325 million. My proposal was Smith + Quincey + a first-round pick. (My understanding is that the upcoming draft class is thin.) I don't think that makes a ton of sense for Sather, but I'm basically assuming Girardi has a foot out the door, i.e. he's not going to re-sign. Sather won't want to lose him for nothing. In which case he'd probably get a great return from a team not named the Detroit Red Wings - but I'm not trying to predict the future here or sell cold and calculated reason. I'm trying to figure out how we might get Girardi without gutting our team. Girardi (or, again, someone else. Doesn't have to be Girardi) would give us a solid top four. We don't have a solid top four. We need a solid top four. We could also use a right-handed shot and a guy who can log big minutes playing in every conceivable situation and blocking a ton of shots. Here is what we might have with Girardi on board: Niklas Kronwall Jonathan Ericsson Danny DeKeyser Dan Girardi Jakub Kindl Brian Lashoff (And we'd hope that he'd re-sign with us, because everyone re-signs.) I think that makes sense for us. I think that blue line could compete for the Cup. Like I've said, waiting until free agency makes more sense, but I was working with a self-assigned premise, which is that we'd be big players at the deadline. I've kinda derailed the thread, so I'll leave this be until I post my CapGeek nonsense.

I never said Franzen would be part of the deal for Girardi. While we're talking about him, though, I think you're undervaluing him. Every team wants a big-bodied top-six winger who's good for 20-30 goals. Franzen isn't ideal, but he's not Dan Cleary. A team that needs more offense, maybe something to put them over the top, might be interested in him. I don't think Girardi gets moved. If he does, it's because he's on an expiring contract. FWIW, his name has popped up in the rumor mill. One source says he's being shopped. Another says the Ducks are interested. There have been other whispers. Am I putting a lot of stock in rumors? Nope. But I do get the sense that things have changed with his situation. More specifically, I think he's less keen on staying than he once was. Five months ago I wouldn't have even proposed trading for Girardi, because everyone assumed he was a lock to re-sign. But now it looks like they might (*might*) lose one of Girardi/Callahan. If I had to pick one, I'd pick Girardi. Signing him in the offseason makes more sense for us, but I don't see us signing two of the most coveted free agents (my pipe dreams being Girardi and Moulson), so I thought I'd spice things up and propose a trade for him. The hope is obviously that he'd re-sign. As for why the Wings would consider trading for Girardi - because we need a top-four defenseman. Granted, there's a chance we may not make the playoffs this season, but I'm assuming/hoping that we're at least where we were last season come the deadline: a seventh or eighth or ninth seed, but really much better than that. And that's how I feel about this team. I think we can do some real damage if we can get in. But we need a top-four defenseman.

I'm not saying I think this will happen. I've even said my ideas are unrealistic. I realize that we're having the sort of conversation where pretty much anything I say is going to be shot down, because, like, totally never gonna happen, man, because, like, they would totally never do that. But let's try to have an open mind about it (and I'll do the same about your ideas). Is it so ridiculous to think that we might be able to acquire Girardi this season? It really isn't. Maybe Quincey + Smith + a first-round pick wouldn't get it done - but I never said it had to be those three pieces. If Holland were to make up his mind that Girardi was the one and only guy he wanted to target and he really wanted to make it happen, I think he could get it done. We have prospects. We have draft pics. We have some attractive roster players. It could be done. Disagreeing with that is disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing. I mean, no, we're not going to be able to land Wheeler and Girardi, but I already conceded that in my proposal. I'm not going for hyper-realism, things that I think will happen. I'm mostly throwing ideas against the wall and seeing what sticks. Going back to your idea, Pumpkin, I actually like the thought of Smith and Ouellet and Sproul all sharing a blue line. I just don't think that's gonna cut it next season, if the Cup is the goal. Sproul is doing pretty well for himself in the AHL, but I don't think he's ready for full-time NHL duty (if the Cup is the goal). And Smith will be really good in a few seasons, but I don't think I want him in our top four next season (if the Cup is the goal), unless we're adding a solid top-four defenseman to our top four and maybe pairing him with Smith. I realize that would seem to go against my pitch for Girardi. If I don't want him in my top four, why would Sather want him as a return for one of his better defensemen? Mainly, I think the depth of the Rangers' blue line is why he might do it. They have a very strong D corps. They can afford to wait for Smith to become a top-pairing defenseman. Us? Not so much, IMHO.

Quincey + Smith + a first-round pick. Or something along those lines. I laid this out in my long post on the previous page.

As I said, his current cap hit is 3.325. Quincey's is 3.775. We'd be moving Quincey for Girardi. So we'd be ok.

First of all, Lashoff and Sproul are different kinds of defenseman. Sproul is an offensive defenseman, a PP quarterback. Lashoff is a defensive defenseman, a stay-at-home crease-clearer. You need a guy like Lashoff on your blue line. Often he'll be your #5, #6, or #7. That's what Lashoff is for us now. He's been doing what he's asked to do. He's also become a pretty solid PKer. So now we're going to replace him with a not-quite-ready, still-rough-around-the-edges, offensive-minded defenseman? Why not just keep Lashoff and let Sproul continue to develop? Then, when he's truly ready, he can step in and be one of those high-scoring defensemen who seem to come out of nowhere and take the league by storm, e.g. Karlsson. As for finding a top-four defenseman who fits in cap-wise, I already did: Dan Girardi. His current cap hit is 3.325. Quincey's is 3.775. Like I said, we'd be moving Quincey for Girardi. In the summer, he'll command something around 5. Like I said, a lot of money will be coming off our books, and the cap should be going up. And if not Girardi, then someone else. Maybe Alex Edler. Either one would give us a solid top-four.

I'm not saying my roster is perfect. But I feel it could go toe-to-toe with any team in the league, in a best-of-seven. That's what I think we need to go for while we still have Datsyuk and before Zetterberg's back crumbles and before Kronwall really slows down and softens up. A team that is ruthlessly good, as good as Holland can possibly make it. A team that's much better than what we think would be acceptable, because that's what it's going to take to knock off a powerhouse like the Penguins or Blackhawks or Blues or Sharks. Say we go with Kronwall-Ericsson-DeKeyser-Smith-Ouellet-Sproul. What happens if we get hit with injuries? What if we lose Kronwall? What if we lose Ericsson and DeKeyser? It's not gonna cut it.

Our top four is not set. We barely even have a top four. Even Holland agrees. (He's in the market for a top-four defenseman.) Kronwall, Ericsson, DeKeyser, Smith is not going to win a Cup. Maybe several years from now, but by that point our core will be ancient. And maybe if we could score at will, but we can't. So we'd have a very iffy top four, and our third pairing would be Ouellet (who may or may not be read) and Sproul (who may or may not be ready). I like your faith in our youth, but I want a Stanely Cup next season.

So you're just changing our third pairing? Does that really help our blue line woes? Lashoff is one of our steadier defensemen, is a pretty solid #6. Basically, he's our stay-at-home depth guy. (Every team needs a stay-at-home depth guy.) Packaging Kindl and Lashoff might fetch us a decent draft pick, but I don't really see what the motivation would be. Getting the kids up ahead of schedule? I guess I can understand that, given the extremely short window of opportunity we have left with our aging core. But I feel like it'd make a lot more sense to try to give ourselves an actual top four in the here and now and give Ouellet and Sproul and all the kids the time they need to develop properly. I dunno if the first part was directed at me. I think Tootoo should be bought out. As for Franzen: probably not, but you never know. He's still a big-bodied top-six winger who's good for around 20 goals. Before he went out with these most recent troubles, he was playing almost like the Mule of old. Clutch, dominant. I think there are teams that would take him.

I'll be working out the cap issues on CapGeek then I'll be posting what I come up with. That's the next phase. At the moment, though, I don't feel like what I've put together would be way over the cap, if over it at all. Franzen, Quincey, Bertuzzi, Cleary, Samuelsson, Tootoo, Eaves would all be coming off the books, and the cap should be going up. Alfie won't play for peanuts, but he might accept 4 or 4.5. Not that I feel it'd be necessary for him to take a discount. As for Smith/Girardi... Girardi is 29, right-handed, a top-pairing talent, can log insane minutes, can play in every situation, can move the puck well, plays through injuries, etc. But you'll notice I have him on the second pairing. That basically mean he has to be better than Quincey. Point being, a not-quite-what-he-was-a-couple-seasons-ago Girardi is fine by me. You make it sound like he's a 35-year-old with little left in the tank. True, he's had a rough go of it over the past year or so, but players have rough stretches, and often it doesn't just boil down to "Well, he sucks now. It's too bad cuz he used to be good" (e.g. maybe the new coach's system doesn't suit him, maybe he's unhappy in NY, maybe he's just having an off season, maybe he needs a change of scenery). But even if he's not quite what he once was (again, though, he's 29, not 43), I'm not counting on him being a Norris candidate. I just want a solid top four. Smith - like I said, I'm not keen on losing him. But for Girardi, and with the youth we have in the pipeline (Ouellet, Sproul, Marchenko, et al.)? I'd do it. Because it's the Cup.

Here's where I'm at right now. It's a major pipe dream, but it's my major pipe dream. We need at least two big acquisitions, IMHO. Currently my heart is set on Blake Wheeler, Matt Moulson, and Dan Girardi. Wheeler will have to be a trade, of course. I think Cheveldayoff might take a package built around Franzen and Nyquist. Actually, Franzen and Nyquist might/should be enough to get it done. If not, then maybe Franzen and Nyquist and Andersson. If not, maybe make Andersson a first-round pick. I dunno. Point is, I want Wheeler on this team. I've wanted him on this team for a long time. Get it done. I guess Moulson and Girardi are, ideally, UFA signings. If we trade for one of them this season, Girardi makes more sense, given our needs on the blue line. Smith would probably have to go the other way, and we'd need to clear some cap space, so Quincey is pretty much a must. If we save the first-round pick from the Wheeler deal (so...Franzen + Nyquist + Andersson, or somewhere thereabouts), that could give us something like Smith + Quincey + a first-round pick, which is fairly solid, if not an overpayment. I'd be really reluctant to move Smith for an expiring contract, though. I'd want some kind of gentleman's agreement that Girardi would re-sign. Not that that would mean anything, but this is all fantasy anyway, so whatever. That leaves Moulson. Holland could swing one big UFA signing, right? Especially with our whole "We believe in guys who other people don't necessarily believe in" thing, and our "We believe in family and loyalty" thing. Moulson would be all like, "Hot damn! It's about time someone tried to sell me on those lines!" So, boom. We now have Wheeler, Moulson, Girardi. (Stop laughing.) Alfredsson returns. Ideally, he takes a hometown discount. Gustavsson also returns. Tootoo gets bought out. Jurco and Sheahan make the team out of training camp. I kinda wanna keep Bert, if only because of his size (we'd be a very smallish team even with him in the ranks), but I think it's about time we parted ways. He'd have to play in the bottom six (we're adding Wheeler and Moulson and keeping Alfredsson), and I just don't know if he's gonna be all that effective in a checking/energy role. Speaking of roles, what to do with the aforementioned Jurco? One juicy option: stick him right on the first line with Datsyuk and Zetterberg. Henrik Zetterberg Pavel Datsyuk Tomas Jurco Matt Moulson Stephen Weiss Blake Wheeler Tomas Tatar Darren Helm Daniel Alfredsson Drew Miller Riley Sheahan Justin Abdelkader I really like those lines, and also these: Henrik Zetterberg Pavel Datsyuk Blake Wheeler Matt Moulson Stephen Weiss Daniel Alfredsson Tomas Tatar Darren Helm Tomas Jurco Drew Miller Riley Sheahan Justin Abdelkader I think I ever so slightly prefer the first look, because it gives us three solid scoring lines. And, come on, Jurco with Z and D? Euro Twins Triplets! Also, I kinda like that we'd have an all-European scoring line and an all-North American one. So let's go with that. YOUR 2014-2015 DETROIT RED WINGS Henrik Zetterberg Pavel Datsyuk Tomas Jurco Matt Moulson Stephen Weiss Blake Wheeler Tomas Tatar Darren Helm Daniel Alfredsson Drew Miller Riley Sheahan Justin Abdelkader Ferraro, Glendening, Callahan Niklas Kronwall Jonathan Ericsson Danny DeKeyser Dan Girardi Jakub Kindl Brian Lashoff Almqvist Jimmy Howard Gustavsson So that's where I am right now. I guess it's essentially swapping Franzen, Nyquist, and Smith with Wheeler, Moulson, and Girardi. Sound stupid and unrealistic? It is. And I love it.

We need this win like whoa.

Been working on some ideas. Will post them soon.

I wouldn't make that trade, personally. I feel like we could fill the defensive hole without giving up both one of our brightest young defensemen and one of our brightest young goal-scorers (who's currently on pace for a 20-goal rookie season, all with somewhat limited ice time and line mates and physical stature). And that's saying nothing of the way Tatar's been kinda jerked around (not Holland's style, generally. He'll probably want to make it up to him, or, at the very least, not show him the door and earn a lifelong enemy), and now with his father's passing...I don't think he gets moved for anything less than an all-star. Which is to say, I don't think he gets moved. I love Tatar. He's got teeth. I'd be more willing to move Nyquist.

STANDING IN THE HALL OF FAME

I dunno, I thought we played a mostly solid game, same as last game. And I thought we had tons of golden opportunities, same as last game. What we're really, really, really missing is guys who can finish, i.e. top-six goal-scorers. We're playing with heart and hustle and compete and structure, we're battling, we're keeping it close, we might even be cutting down on fatal defensive lapses. (Quincey saving a goal? Bizzaro world.) We simply don't have enough firepower. And when you're going up against Niemi, Quick, Hiller, and Lundqvist, you need all the firepower you can get. Of course, my opinion on this will probably change tomorrow and I'll blame it all on Kindl.

I'm expecting everyone back. These injuries are perfect justification for Holland's vision of the team. Load up on "veteran depth," don't cut any ties, keep the kids down, BAM! STANLEY CUP! (Sammy won't be back. Bert might. Cleary, probably not, though I wouldn't rule him out. Of the three, I'd only be ok with Bert returning - and even him, I dunno.)

My big fear is we're never going to get fully healthy.

I hate this season. Following the Wings is supposed to be fun.

I've gotta think there's something to their whole we-need-scruffy-bottom-sixers thing and our whole we-have-too-many-scruffy-bottom-sixers thing. Also, their whole we-need-defensemen thing and our whole we-may-be-facing-a-logjam-on-the-blueline thing.

To be fair, we've faced four of the best goalies in the league over these past four games - all with, of course, a monstrously depleted lineup. We have trouble scoring when we're fully healthy. We can't expect the Griffins to come up and do much better against Niemi, Quick, Hiller, and Lundqvist. And yeah, something is definitely wrong with Z. His strategy on every play - regardless of the zone - seems to be "Carry the puck. And then, keep carrying it. And then, keep carrying it!" Or maybe he just doesn't trust anyone enough. Abdelkader is Abdelkader and Nyquist is so cold I fear he'll die of exposure. Babs could try putting Jurco on his line, but that would require thinking.

Is it me or are The Powers That Be (basically Ken Holland) kind of ok with all of these injuries, and the fact that it's going to cost us a boatload of extremely valuable points, maybe even a playoff spot? It just seems like we're kind of content to wait until we're healthy, if that day even comes.