Dabura

Just thought I'd make it more LGW-friendly.

To certain demographics, Sean Avery is the face of hockey. By extension, then, the face of hockey for a lot of people is an ******* who calls his girlfriend "sloppy seconds." That's not good business for the NHL.

I said it was a consideration, not the primary motive. If he plays in that game, he gets the spotlight, the audience, the exposure he wants. Then you're just "feeding the troll." The league would be saying, "OK, we do have a problem with what you did...but, you know, we went through all the trouble of setting up the TiVo and..." To address the point about violence: all the stats in the world won't change the fact that the rough stuff in this sport (namely fighting) is a double-edged sword for the league. I never said it's the only problem -- but it is a concern. I don't really care to argue this point, as 1) it's pretty cut and dry, 2) I can't imagine how anyone could honestly deny it, and 3) I don't want it taking away from my overall point, which is that this league does need help in the marketing department, but doesn't need to prop up Sean Avery to get the job done. Someone -- might have been Harold -- made a great comment: if the NHL's hopes rest on Sean Avery's shoulders, the NHL is absolutely screwed.

You're looking at it from the perspective of a hockey fan. I'm talking about people who really couldn't care less about hockey but could perhaps be turned on to the sport. Like YoungGuns said, Avery is, in a sense, the face of hockey to a lot of people because of his "crossover appeal" or whatever you want to call it. So, fairly or not, his actions reflect on the league in a big way. Him calling Elisha Cuthbert "sloppy seconds" is not a good reflection. This isn't a difficult concept. Him calling Phaneuf fat? OK. Him calling Cuthbert sloppy seconds? Not OK. The former is offensive, but only so much. The latter is just...no. I remember hearing his name come up in a conversation over at Bryant Park during this past NY Fashion Week. "Sean Avery...I heard he has a reputation. But to me, you know, I think that's great of him and the hockey league to reach out to a female-driven industry. Even if it's contrived, that's a nice message. That's why Wintour took him on." I wonder what that lady's saying now.

That's bush league. If there's a problem, you address it ASAP -- not when it's convenient for the ****** bag in question. Which isn't to say the league always makes the right call and always handles things the way they should be handled. Usually it doesn't -- which is why I like this call so much. And yes, I do believe the possibility of Phaneuf hurting Avery was a consideration. Of course it was. Likely? No. But the guy's lost his cool before, and Avery was, for whatever reason, really pushing it with that comment. One more Bertuzzi-Moore incident and the league can kiss its ass goodbye. But that's all a bit beside the point. Harold nailed it: the league needs to market itself better, but Avery isn't the solution. I think it's funny/sad that some people are seriously taking the "Well, Crosby isn't getting it done, so obviously we need someone like Avery! What? They're reprimanding Avery? The NHL's doomed!" stance. To be fair, yeah, maybe the league does need "someone like Avery" -- but the implication there is that its someone who has Avery's nose for the spotlight, minus his tendency to be a complete and utter *******.

Agreed.

I agree -- but the league has to know where to draw the line. And I think they did a good job of drawing it in this particular instance. Sean Avery saying something low about another player? OK, cool. That makes for good games, maybe a rivalry. But Sean Avery bringing his ex-girlfriend (who, if we're going to start talking politics, is not just any girl) into it and calling her sloppy seconds and basically asking Dion Phaneuf to murder him on live television? That shouldn't be part of any plan to un-bastardize this bastard sport. Again, a league like the NFL can afford to promote assholes like Avery. The NHL can barely afford to promote its stars.

No need for hyperbole; you know cleaning up the NHL's image isn't tantamount to courting "church ladies." What I'm talking about is one of the main reasons (if not the main reason) fighting in hockey is so polarizing: it's helped cultivate this grotesque image of hockey players as goons. I agree that the "boring" argument has also hurt the league, but anyone who thinks there is not, in fact, a misconception about hockey players and thuggery...well, I don't know what to tell them. "Get out more," maybe. Has no one heard the boxing match joke?

I'm so stoked. It's gonna be great.

Here's the thing about the NHL and "any other sport": in the States, the NHL doesn't have a baseline foothold to work with like other professional North American sports leagues do. The NFL, for example, can afford to parade Avery-like ****** bags around and get them all the attention in the world because the NFL is so big that nothing short of a lockout is going to hurts its success. Another way of saying that: the NFL can afford to have villains because it has ultra-recognizable heroes who own the hearts and minds of the American public. The NHL, by contrast, is a bastard league in the U.S.; you can't even find it on ESPN. This owes to a lot of things, and the perception that hockey players are boneheads who get paid to break bones is one of them. I don't care if you don't think this misconception exists, because it absolutely does. It's a longstanding misconception the NHL needs to combat (not promote) if it wants to tango with the big leagues. I'm not talking about outlawing fighting; I'm talking about, for example, what the league did here, which is send a message that it won't tolerate going over the line. Trash-talking in the media is one thing, calling someone out is one thing. What Avery did is another. It's classless, offensive, it hurts the integrity of the league, and it put him in a position to have his neck snapped on live TV. Guy's a moron.

Oh, sorry, I forgot -- you're a meat head. Which explains why you're making the argument that frowning on comments like Avery's will definitely hurt the league, whereas taking no action against this sort of thing won't hurt the league "in any way whatsoever." Hockey is, by and large, viewed by the general American public as a sport for talentless thugs. Avery's comment is exactly the kind of thing you'd expect to come out of the mouth of a talentless thug. And you're talking about how the league needs to break from its own conventions by...patting Avery on the back? Good job, buddy. P.S. Obviously I do, in fact, work for Bettman.

Give me a break. The guy's a colossal ****** who, in the long run, is going to hurt the league more than he's going to help it. His own team's barely coming to his defense in the media. I say good for the league/Bettman/whoever made the call. The general public already thinks hockey players are all idiotic goons. How is Avery calling his ex-girlfriend "sloppy seconds" supposed to help? 'Cause it could lead to a total beat-down zomg? Please.

^^^

No, it's not. Like Eva said, Mule is slightly better right now -- but Ryan is much younger, has much greater potential, and will be making much less than Mule come next season. I love Mule and have been a vocal supporter of his through thick and thin. But 10 out of 10 GMs would take Ryan, and for good reason.

Sammy is a great value, and he's proving that again this season. You can't argue with his numbers, especially when you juxtapose that with his salary. Anyone who calls him a tool is, well, a tool.

Like I tell you every time you bring up this inane argument, check his numbers and then compare his with Datsyuk's. The guy's a damn Wing, people. And he took a big discount to be here. And he's producing. It boggles my mind that people here would give him crap like this -- i.e. going so far as to flat-out make stuff up just to knock him down a couple notches. Disappointing.

This.

Uh...are you calling me out? I'm confused.

Also, I'm not sold on YoungGuns' argument that the only thing keeping him here is 07-08's roster. I think Hossa would have come here even if the Wings had parted ways with some of the pieces of the Cup run. I say that for two reasons: 1) He's good enough to compensate for losing a couple of second-tier players, 2) The Pens (the Wings' apparent "rivals") were on the verge of losing a lot of talent, which they ultimately did. Moreover, it's not difficult to imagine why he would want to stay here beyond this season, regardless of what happens in the playoffs and regardless of what happens with the roster. Do I think he'll stay? Probably not -- but that would be more an issue of finance than "ZOMG IF JIRI HUDLER GOES THEN I GO! THIS AIN'T WHAT I SIGNED UP 4!"

Almost singlehandedly took the Wings to seven games in the SCF. Become the league's most consistent, reliable goal-scorer and one of its best two-way players. Yeah, nothing big. There was an excellent stat someone posted at the season. I believe it was a comparison between Hossa's career points total versus the combined career total of everyone else in the Wings' top-6. He won, of course. I'm OK with the argument that money is going to be tight and Holland is going to be loyal. I'm not OK with tearing down Hossa just because it ruffles some people's feathers that other people are suggesting he might be retained instead of, say, Franzen. Since his rookie season, Hossa's done nothing but produce, and now he's leading the charge with the Wings. If you think he's gone after this season, cool -- but give credit where credit's due.

Only, JR's an okay guy, whereas Lemieux is scum. "Cool" is one of the last words I'd use to describe this guy returning to the NHL.

Man, forget waterboarding. If you really want the terrorists to talk, just force 'em to watch that slideshow.

Quincey was especially unimpressive. It was almost as if he didn't want to be with the Wings -- whereas that clearly wasn't the case with the others.

They faced adversity last year. If you're going to be an ass in all your posts, be smart about it.

Wow, that was actually a good, solid scrap. Color me impressed.