Dabura

does it matter? we are still winning and this kind of stuff is easy to fix. It's a concern. To me, stats like that are almost more important than the overall record. We know the Wings are going to finish the regular season with a winning record, probably coming out on top of the West and quite possibly the league. It's been that way for a long time now. As we've seen, though, great regular season records can be very deceptive. If you really want to know how this team is doing, I think stats like GA are extremely valuable. In this case, the +14 stat Harold pointed out tells us we've attained the same basic record we earned last season through the first 21 games -- only, with sloppier defensive play. Maybe I'm just too negative, but that first-round loss to the Oilers is still fresh in my mind. Coasting to success in the regular season is, in my mind, the Kiss of Death for the Wings.

Quincey had a very unimpressive training camp. Was management supposed to reward him for that effort (or lack thereof)? Also, you have to understand that he's getting much more ice time with the Kings, and that includes time on the PP. So of course his numbers are going to be better -- as is, I imagine, his motivation.

I don't like Burke, but come on. Odds are, Burke will make this team more competitive than it's been in ages. Sure, they'll probably crash and burn after a few good seasons. But if you want to talk about ruining Canadian hockey, look at the piss-poor seasons the Leafs have been putting in for years and years and years now. That's how you really kill Canadian hockey.

I'd be extremely impressed if Leino stepped right in and replaced Hudler's production just like that. He'll need time before he can do it. I love Helm, and I think he's great on the fourth line -- but that's not where Flip plays. And they play very different games. I think Flip is overpaid. Wouldn't lose much sleep over him leaving. Hudler's been performing and I think he's a pretty long way from fully realizing his potential, which is saying something. If I had to give $3M to one of these two guys, it would probably be Hudler. Sammy has value, though, and he'll continue to be a good bargain. I'm interested to see how much he asks for.

Pretty much the whole season thus far. And yet, the 'minding has still been good. I think when the D finally starts to click and find its groove, I'm going to be that much happier about our situation between the pipes.

Gary Bettman has made all of three or four smart moves as commissioner. Moving the league to Versus is one of them. ESPN shafted the NHL like no one's business. That's because hockey is a bastard sport in the States. That much hasn't changed since the lockout, so I see no incentive for ESPN to court the league or promise fairer treatment. The league would have to come crawling back to ESPN, not the other way around -- and I don't see that happening any time soon. And I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.

But how do you really feel about him?

I think there's a mandate to "level the playing field" in the 3rd. I'm not convinced that this is an anti-Wings mandate -- it's just that the Wings tend to lead going into the 3rd...and they're really hard to bear 5-on-5 and down a goal or two....

That's pretty sweet!

^^^ Let's see how far they make it in the postseason.

He's working fine on the third, Sammy's working fine on the second. What's the issue?

I feel more comfortable with Conklin in net than I did with Hasek last season.

I live in PA. I'm about a five-hour drive from Crosby Central. Point being: a lot. I understand the desire to defend him against stupid put-downs (e.g. "All he does his cry"). In a way, to defend his honor is to defend the league's. But he whines a lot. Too much. I wish there were a less smoldering, caustic way of saying that, but nothing's coming to mind. Still, I don't really understand why this should kick off a multi-page debate every time it's brought up at LGW. Like I said, it's pretty much like saying Lang likes to float. Yeah, you can say, "Well, *such and such a Wing* used to float." But I'm not talking about *such and such a Wing*; I'm talking about Crosby. And his whining. And how it's annoying.

I'd say he's miles beyond Flip offensively and defensively. The Wings are blessed in having three of the world's best two-way players in Hossa, Datsyuk and Zetterberg (not in that order, mind you). And Draper deserves mention, of course.

From what I've seen this season (and really, the last several seasons, as I think this has been a rising trend that is only now starting to become fairly obvious), a lot of these late calls are "anomalous"; they're not consistent with the calls that have been made through the first two and a half periods. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that's why people are so upset over them -- they're made in response to the scoreboard.

I was a top-ranked swimmer as a kid. I should have stayed with it, but I was seduced by hockey. (Go figure.) I shouldn't have brought the hard/easier then, harder/easier now argument up; it never gets us anywhere at LGW. But taking away that angle, I still stand by my point about Nick being more interesting as a consummate sportsman. I think it's silly to say he doesn't stand a chance against Phelps because he's not Wayne Gretzky. Like I said, Phelps is a tremendous, tremendous athlete. Like I also said, I know his PT -- known him for most of my life, in fact. So I have a very good, intimate understanding of what Phelps accomplished and exactly why it's so impressive. And he's going to win; that's a given. Heads will roll at SI if a hockey player beats him out. Still, I'm surprised so many people are so quick to completely and utterly write Nick off here. Disappointing.

Very few do it as much as he does it. Those who do do it are, like I said, paid to be pests. People like Maltby. And the fact that he, you know, whines a lot. Honestly, folks, I'm not trying to be difficult. This is a really straightforward, obvious point I'm pushing. It's like saying Coach Gretzky complains too much, or that Nick Lidstrom has great vision, or that Steve Yzerman has class, or that Chris Pronger plays a dirty game, or that Robert Lang coasts. I'm not saying Crosby's a s*** player; I think I've made it very clear that I certainly don't think that's the case. So I don't know what the deal is with this movement to defend Sid's honor.

Whining doesn't take it away, but it does take away from it. Fact: Sidney Crosby whines too much. Fact: It annoys people. Fact: Everyone knows he's good, even if we don't say, "ZOMG. LUVE TEH SID." No need for rebuttals in essay-form. This thread makes my brain hurt.

I was referring to setting the record. And Lidstrom > Bourque. And hockey > swimming. Man up, you pansies.

No, they're not. No one is saying anything remotely close to "If someone doesn't act like a perfect angel, that someone sucks." Crosby whines too much. This belief is held not just by LGWers, but by fans all around the league. While yes, it probably is overstated, and yes, that's probably partially a result of Crosby being in the spotlight all the time, it's true nonetheless. Knocking Crosby for whining is essentially the same as knocking Sean Avery for running his mouth. Are you prepared to defend Avery to the extent to which you're defending Crosby? Moreover, your attempt to paint Crosby-bashers as hypocrites is valiant, but ultimately flawed. It should be understood that when someone calls Crosby out for excessive whining on a message board, that person is ostensibly referring to Crosby as a superstar hockey player, the face of the National Hockey League -- not as a peer. So when you say, "Yeah, but look at all of you. You're all whining, aren't you?" you're missing the point. We're bitching Crosby out for whining less because of the act of whining itself and more because of who and what Crosby is. As for the jealousy argument -- what Drake said. Except, I've never cared much for Adriana Lima, and she's actually a good Christian girl. Doutzen Kroes ftw!

And it's not just a part of his game "when things don't completely go his way"; it's a part of his game all the time, every night, regardless of who he's playing against, regardless of what he's playing for, regardless of the situation. Kirk Maltby's a whiney little *****, but he gets paid to be an agitator, a crybaby. Sidney Crosby's the face of the league. I'd like for that face to not be filled with tears at some point in every single game he plays. That doesn't mean I don't think he's an unbelievably talented hockey player. He's already one of the most impressive players to ever play the game, and I have no problem with saying so. He just complains too damn much. Maybe this point is brought up too often -- but it holds true. No one is acting like that. What are you smoking? Crosby cries too much. You try too hard to be objective. Bam! Thread done.

And it was harder to do back then. No sleek hair caps, no ultra-comprehensive physical therapy (and I've worked with his PT, so I know) -- just a badass 'stache. Swimming has seen someone like Phelps before. Nick Lidstrom is, I think, somewhat unique to his respective sport; I'm not sure the NHL has seen anyone else with a package like his. You wonder where it comes from, how anyone could have his vision, his knowledge of the game, his poise -- everything he does seems rooted in some sort of mystical Jedi training that mere mortals like us know nothing about. Michael Phelps is a tremendous, tremendous athlete, but you know his story, what he's all about, how he got to where he is. I think the seemingly inexplicable nature of Nick's talent helps give him the edge. Also helping him is the fact that he's an unbelievably, ridiculously amazing person. Not that Phelps isn't swell and all, but Nick is pure class: smart, sophisticated, well-spoken, humble. I remember asking him for an autograph in the parking lot before Game 2 of the '97 finals. I was young, didn't know who he was. Just knew that he was a Wing. He smiled and said, "You don't want mine; I'm a nobody. But I can tell you where Stevie is!" Nick Lidstrom = Win

Crosby's whining gets to people because it's a part of his game, a staple of his game. He uses it like a tool, a weapon, an asset. Pavel Datsyuk, on the other hand, has blown up at a ref a grand total of once -- and he was fully justified in that instance. "To whom much is given, much is expected."

I'd have to think about this for a bit. But Kenzy's a good pick. Good guy, shoots straight, tends to keep his biases in check, bases his arguments on logic -- I mean, he's no Brian Engblom, but....

Wings Put in Their First Full 60-Minute Effort, Beat Oilers, Absolve Themselves of Their Sins, Win Cup (Full story at 3)