Dabura

Conklin is win. Datsyuk needs to step up. I grow weary of Hudler. Mule wants that raise. Homer is hilariously clutch. We don't use defensemen anymore. Stuart is being forced to play against his will. Kronwall is contemplating retiring next week. Oh, and Sammy is God.

esteef knows the score. Sure, Crosby is a superstar, and sure, his potential is through the ceiling. And sure, he is, in fact, a truly phenomenal player at the ridiculously young age of 21. But if we're talking about bringing him to the Wings, and at the cost of Datsyuk and/or Zetterberg, we have to acknowledge the fact that this is not just a matter of swapping superstars; Crosby is not "basically interchangeable" with Datsyuk or Zetterberg in this equation. Like I've said, this team is built around three players: Lidstrom and the Euro Twins. You take away even one of the Twins and you're making an extremely significant change to a number of facets of this team and to the franchise at large. In terms of their style of play and the way they conduct themselves (on and off the ice), Z & D epitomize what we recognize today as Red Wings Hockey -- and, being in their prime, they "epitomize" it really frickin' well. Phenomenal two-way play, virtually limitless skill, class, a no-nonsense work ethic -- this is what the Wings aspire to. This is the engine behind the Big Red Machine. Crosby is, like I said, an absurdly talented hockey player -- and he's years away from his prime. Which is kind of mind-boggling. In all likelihood, he's only going to get better from here -- but that's not a sure thing, and even if it were a sure thing, does it make perfect sense for the Wings? That's what management would have to ask if faced with the prospect of shipping Z and/or D for him. If it were just one of the Twins, I might be for it, but even then...eh. Bringing Crosby in would ostensibly signal a change in direction: a change in philosophy, a change in leadership, a change in long-term plans. His defensive game is not nearly as good as Z's or D's. Chemistry might be an issue. He complains a lot, so much so that it's literally a part of his game right now. I understand the argument that Dats went postal after one of those phantom Homer no-goals, but I think even Mother Teresa would've s*** a brick over that sorry-ass excuse for "officiating." Point being, Z & D are generally very classy and, well, non-bitchy. They set a great example for the rest of the team, which in turn reflects quite nicely on the organization, which in turn reflects well on the city. Crosby, for all his talent and potential, comes from a different school and is in a different headspace right now. I'm not just sitting here knocking him; I'm getting more at this organization's need (or lack thereof) for him and potential compatibility (or lack thereof) with him.

Where he majored in econ! Do not be fooled by the 'stache; Parros is better than you.

And the regular season would have worked out nicely without him. And he played zero games in the postseason. Which doesn't really support the "We need enforcers" argument. I understand their value -- everyone does. But, like I said, there's no burning need for Holland to stick a fighter or two in the lineup ASAP ZOMG.

But I will say this: I hate the "Our PP is our enforcer" attitude. It's chicken-s***. But with a team like this, you can afford to talk like that and still come out on top.

Nah, I'm just drunk 1% of the time.

It's tough to know where he's coming from when 99% of what he says is inane. For the record, though: last year is a very good indicator of how many enforcers this team needs, considering it was, you know, a few months ago, and this lineup has barely changed, and none of this team's big foes have gotten considerably tougher. Bottom line, we only "need" more fighters to appease some hardcore Bruise Brothers fans.

Hey, remember when we got pummeled in last year's playoffs because we didn't have an enforcer? To think: if we'd only dressed one, we might have won the Cup. Ah, what could've been...

I'd actually love to see a team in Vegas. It would probably be a catastrophic failure, but damn do I love Vegas!

Even in regards to a one-for-one, I don't like some of the logic being thrown around. Example: It's about more than trading a superstar for a superstar. You seemed to have missed the part where I talked about facetiousness. (For the record, though, Yzerman ultimately went above and beyond the call of duty and brought the goods like few ever have and ever will. Crosby won't necessarily become the next Yzerman. If we're going to talk about played-out cards, I'll cast my vote for the "Yeah, well, Yzerman ___, so Crosby ___" one.) The Pens were supposed to overwhelm the Wings with their "superior offense" and "superior defense" and "hot goalie." Instead, the Wings held them scoreless for the first two games and sent them packing in six (very nearly five). Maybe not "embarrassing," but certainly far from what most were expecting. Hossa did bolt, after all.

Yep. Nope. Firstly: "appalling"? "Rose-colored glasses"? Seriously? Wings fans on a Wings board saying they wouldn't trade two of their three best players for a guy they steamrolled over three months ago (and who took it like a baby half the time) is...appalling? If it's the "whiner" card you're getting bent out of shape over, good news: it's mostly facetiousness. The bad news? Maltby's an agitator; he gets paid to whine. So a comparison like that is wack. Besides, he's part of the family here, so of course people here are going to side with him. (God forbid!) If anyone's wearing blinders here, it's the people who seem to think a straight-up Z&D-for-Crosby trade would make perfect sense and would necessarily be a wholly positive move. I think I saw someone say we would basically be guaranteed the Cup this year if management pulled the trigger on this deal right now. I don't know, maybe people have forgotten or simply don't know this, but building and running a successful team and franchise is largely a matter of handling considerations and variables. Sure, you'd be getting the league's golden boy in return for two superstars, and that sounds like a pretty decent deal when it's phrased that way. But you've got to realize how much Datsyuk and Zetterberg really mean to this team: they're respected Motown leaders; franchise faces; "diamonds in the rough"; poster boys for the way the Wings play hockey and conduct themselves; essential parts of this defense-first, puck-possession machine. You ship them off and you're not just shipping off two great players; you're losing a big part of this team's identity. Now, maybe I just watched the wrong SCF or something, but I'm pretty sure that identity, that system is fresh off embarrassing Sid & Co.'s. I like to think that's worth something, and that saying so (and calling Sid a whiner while I'm at it) isn't "appalling." Sheesh.

This is true. (Wasn't disagreeing with you, for the record.)

And in those 5 games, the D has been brutal. And people are complaining about it. Which, to me, is fine, as long as people realize the season isn't over.

I was half-joking. The dude does whine, though. A lot. At least Feds did his whining off the ice.

Which many people are paying to see -- in a s***ty economy. I hate to play that card, but, well...

Well said.

Oh yeah, and he whines.

It's wasn't a matter of money for either of these guys. Thanks, though.

^^^ In all fairness, the D has been brutal.

While I understand and respect the youth argument ("We'll be able to stay competitive longer without sacrificing competitiveness in the here and now"), it's not necessarily a sure-thing like people are making it out to be. Firstly, as certain as we can probably be that Crosby will eventually become the real deal (i.e. a totally complete player who has addressed his shortcomings), that's not a given; his projection eight years from now isn't written in stone. And currently, he is not a complete player, whereas a guy like Hank is. Secondly, any franchise that brings in Crosby is going to have to build the team around him. That means if he were to step in to the Wings lineup today, the Wings' foundation of solid team D and puck-possession might suffer -- or, at least, their priorities might change. Certainly there would at least be a shift in leadership. These things wouldn't exactly guarantee smooth sailing. So, for me, that's a big "f*** No" to trading Datsyuk and Zetterberg for Crosby.

ESPN frankly wants the NHL back on their network. You know they are very eager and interested putting us on. Heh, good one.

Eeeexactly. Really, though: I can understand general Wings hate, but bitching about that call is just lame. I can't believe so many people were/are crying foul. If you know your hockey (...), you know that's a straightforward, textbook, clear-cut, black and white call.

Laziness and/or the economy (i.e. gas prices). imo

Which is not the same as being one-dimensional, which this team is not. Again, this is the same team -- minus frickin' Dallas Drake (no offense to him, but seriously) -- that just plowed through the playoffs a few months ago. It's sloppy, disinterested play that's the problem, not some inherent lack of "grit" and "toughness." Like I said, removing Dallas Drake from this team didn't automatically render it weak and spineless. Right now, there are cobwebs that need to be dusted off. The intensity will pick up as the season progresses. I know some of you are looking forward to a season of crying about how this team NEEDZ MO DOWNEY, but seriously, check your heads.