Dabura

There are some good ones sprinkled throughout the crap.

Who's going to take it from him? Pronger would have to put together an extremely tight, consistent season, which I don't think he's capable of doing at this point in his career. Phaneuf would have to play absolutely out of his mind; he's good, but nowhere near Nick "Norris" Lidstrom good. Nidermayer may get some sympathy votes, what this this being his "final season" and all. But that won't be enough. Brian Campbell? Seriously? I think the only potential threat is what someone referred to earlier as "Lidstrom fatigue" on the part of the voters.

So now you're categorically calling my posts useless crap? I apologize for anything I did to derail this thread. I like to think I've made some decent points throughout the carnage, though. o wellz~

There goes any shot they had at establishing a dynasty.

You'll survive. There's always lockage and banination. I'm fine with either if it's for the...uh, greater good.

How's your money, by the way?

Here's your original reply: Your next reply: You completely missed my original point(s), instead preferring to go off on some meat head tangent about Gary "The Fist" Roberts and how he could totally kick Pavel's ass and how I totally know it and what Pavel was doing was, like, totally not enforcing because, like, GARY ROBERTS!!1 You're thinking in black-and-white -- e.g., Datsyuk is not a fighter, Roberts is TOUGH-AS-NAILZ. It doesn't matter. It certainly didn't matter then, because Datsyuk -- lightweight or not -- stepped in and sent a message, and Roberts didn't try another cheapshot like the one he pulled on Mule again. I keep pointing out the cheapshot because I find it amusing that you'd pull the "to be fair" card on Roberts' behalf, when, in fact, if anyone was robbed of "fairness," it was Mule. "Well hey man, it's a rough game. So there." Well hey man, Pavel was probably saying the same thing when he was socking Roberts with haymakers. But yeah, you're right -- totally not enforcing, totally not fair. It's these double-standards I'm attacking, y'see.

Special assistant to the vice-president, you say? coughALLABOARDTHEMARKETINGTRAINcough

I'll disregard your advice and stick with my point, thanks. If someone's going to insult my intellect, I'd like for that someone to at least have a handle on the basic tenets of English grammar. If that makes me a "cee oh cee kay," then lube me up, baby! ASDFkhwvqwsomethingGANGSTA, Kudos for going to college and being wealthy. Very few young, loaded Americans go to college, so believe me when I say I have the utmost respect for you. As for your ramblings about Roberts -- honestly, I don't care all that much. You thought it necessary to point out a few posts back that I wasn't giving Roberts "due props" or whatever, as Datsyuk totally would have lost had Roberts been operating at, like, TOTAL MAXIMUM POWER (GRRR). I thought it necessary to basically piss on this point's figurative face because all it was really doing was inviting fight fan circle-jerking (e.g. "Remember that time Roberts was, like, shooting lightning from his eyes? Too bad Holland's too much of a ***** to get some guy with lightning eyes, nawmean?") as well as honoring exactly the kind of s*** Holland tries to steer clear of (which, in turn, is one of the big reasons this club is competitive year in and year out). Roberts is a punk-ass ***** who took a shot to the back of a headcase's head. I therefore don't give a damn that he would've beaten Datsyuk in a fair fight. All that matters is that Datsyuk got the upper hand -- and rather literally, at that. No, Datsyuk didn't instill fear in Roberts, but Roberts didn't try s*** like that again for the rest of the series, which is all you want out of an enforcer's work anyway. If all of this strikes you as being so terribly "irrelevant," then you shouldn't have made that point about Dats and Roberts in the first place. Aaron Downey -- he's good for the locker room, good for morale. He's not a very imposing enforcer, though. Nor is he good enough to log any minutes in the postseason (dude's a huge liability. I'm sorry, but it's true.) Nor is he, then, essential; this team marched through the entire postseason without him. ("But they wouldn't have done as well in the regular season without him!" zomg!!1) Of course, I don't see why this debate's being had in the first place. One or both of Mac and Downey will likely be back. It's not like Holland's said, "WE'RE GOIN' SOFT! WAHOO!" It's important to realize, though, that players like Downey occupy the lowest rung on the roster totem pole. NN has said it, and I'll say it again because it's a great point: it's no coincidence that Bowman -- the Ultimate Coach, period -- favored "soft" teams.

Homer gets paid in cups of butterscotch swirl. No joke.

Also, can we please shut up about fights? I mean really. What solid proof is there that we TOTALLY NEED MORE FIGHTERS? We just won the Cup without a legitimate enforcer.

1. *You're. If you're going to insult my intellect, make sure you at least know the difference between "your" and "you're" first. 2. It's relevant because it shows how epically idiotic this argument can get. "Dude, Roberts was at a total disadvantage!" Who gives a flying f***?! The guy took a shot to the back of Mule's head, knowing full well that Mule was having head problems and that one shot like that could have potentially ended his playoff run, maybe even his career. You guys want "enforcement"? Well, that's exactly what Datsyuk delivered. It doesn't matter if Robers "totally would have kicked his ass," because he didn't, and instead got his own ass handed to him. That he was "at a disadvantage" was poetic justice. If that's too much for you hardened fight fans to stomach, I've got news for you: that's enforcing. If we're going to talk about being at a "disadvantage," I'd like to see Roberts try that s*** on Mule head-on.

At this point, Lilja's more intimidating as an enforcer than Mac is.

Well, the idea that "some things are out of your hands" is basically a truism. And with an organization like this one, setting "other goals" isn't really part of The Plan. Everyone's entitled to his own set of expectations -- I'm just saying management's collective expectations and goals are, I can guarantee, not nearly as touchy-feely as some of the ones being put forth here.

Again, this organization operates in accordance with a "Cup or bust" philosophy. It's the cornerstone of "Red Wings culture," from the ownership level right on down to the general expectations of this rabid fanbase. No offense to anyone, but some random guy saying, "Well look, you can't win every year," doesn't mean anything to the likes of Mike Illitch. He's in the business of doing absolutely everything in his power to Win Big (which, yes, is inextricably linked with making money) every season, and in turn, being crushingly disappointed when the team doesn't Win Big. That this roster and its extended pipeline practically scream, "DYNASTY," is not a happy accident.

This thread won't end well.

Fair shmair. Roberts blindsided Mule -- hardly "fair."

Emery is a victim of acting like a jackass.

Yes. This team is built to win the Cup and settle for nothing less year in and year out. It just won the Cup. It also added Marian Hossa, all the while looking like it will retain all of its key championship pieces (Flip pending). Anything less than a repeat will be a big disappointment. However, I do agree with the poster who said a WCF loss would be easier to take than one in the SCF. There's not a single team in the EC that this team shouldn't outright abuse. But teams like Dallas and SJ...they could be scary.

Because we all know that's such a heart-wrenching, ever-present fear. Dudes, get real. Pavel Datsyuk, one of our "soft Euros," beat the stuffing out of Gary Roberts in one of the sweetest bits of "enforcement" in recent memory -- Wings or otherwise. Point being, I'd take this team's toughness over that of quite a few other teams, as it's a team-wide philosophy, something everyone on the roster buys into it -- as opposed to a bunch of softies needing to hide behind one thug when the going gets rough. Mule isn't going to go twelve straight rounds with Brashear, but make no mistake: the guy threw some punches during this last run. Kronwall and Stuart level people on a consistent basis. Cheli is Cheli. Lilja can fight. One of Mac or Downey will likely be back. Even Hossa can tango: I hate to burst anyone's bubble, but the Wings can "hold their own." They just won the motherf***ing Stanley Cup. Or what, was that a fluke because they didn't have to go through the Ducks? As I've already said, there's a place on the roster for enforcer-types, and Holland will see to it that he signs at least one guy for that role before the season begins. He won't, however, be clearing space for this guy by dealing guys like Sammy and Hudler. If anyone has to get moved around, it'll be a scrub. Enough. No mas.

The Wings just won the Cup without a bigtime enforcer. One or both of Mac and Downey will probably be back. Why are we talking about enforcers?

Man, the others were so much better.

I'm also correct in saying a player of Drake's caliber is, when you get right down to it, less valuable than a player like Sammy or Hudler. You may not care for these two, but the guys you're billing as key pieces are lower on the totem pole. If room needs to be made for "toughness," then scrubs will be moved around, not Sammy or Hudler.

I just opened my copy. I'm about to watch it. Um...about this picture inside the sleeve: I don't like how Babs' face is cut off.

Should Flip re-sign, the Wings will march into this season with basically the same roster that just won the Cup -- only, now with Marian Hossa. One or both of Downey and Mac will probably be back. All the team would be missing in the "grit" department, then, is a Drake-type player. While Drake was valuable, it would be idiotic of Kenny to part with Sammy or Hudler just to clear space for a guy like that. Sammy and Hudler give the team depth, and for cheap. Kenny's ability to find cheap-but-solid depth like this is one of the reasons why this team has been able to stay so competitive in the cap era.