Dabura

Gotcha.

I'm not calling him garbage. "Datsyuk Jr." may sound belittling -- and I guess it kind of is -- but it's not a bad thing.

At very best, Flip will be Datsyuk Jr. Bank on it. P.S. I was one of the few saying Franzen was worth hanging on to early last season.

Lidstrom - Rafalski Kronwall - ? ? - ? ? That's the way I look at it (again, assuming Stuart doesn't return). I don't think Lebda, Lilja or Chelios is a lock for any of those four spots. Beyond them, Meech, Quincey and maybe Ericsson are the youngsters looking to crack the lineup. So, you could look at it as 3-against-3, the old guard versus the new, all battling for four spots. I think that's a good situation, and I like that there's a veteran in the mix in Chelios.

Someone make a thread about this.

Ah, good to know.

It's pretty much a question of how effective the given enforcer is in that role. How well does he pick his fights? How clear are his "messages"? Is he a big defensive liability? Does he have a reputation (e.g., "Someone you don't want to fight")? Things like that.

My point exactly. I think I even referenced that "scoring winger" nonsense earlier in this thread. Now, I don't mean to crush people's dreams, but Brashear? Seriously? Seriously?

He needs to put on some weight if he's going to be a bruiser in the big league.

LOL, good one.

I don't know, that sounds like a fluff point to me. I can't imagine Ken Holland saying, "OK, we're definitely going to need an enforcer now because we just won the Cup...without one....Hmm."

What if he signs for 5 years and ends up never having that breakout season we're all waiting for? I'd be more comfortable with something in the $3 million range.

Am I missing something? Where are people getting this from?

Flip at $4 million is not careful allocation, imo.

Well, I'm not so sure about Hossa. But I could easily see Roberts having beef with Therrien. Roberts was absolutely pissed when Therrien sat him out at the start of the SCF. I could also see Malkin leaving, but that's kind of a separate issue. And just for the record: just because a player says, "Everything's fine," doesn't necessarily mean everything's fine. Who knows, maybe people are leaving because Malkin will, in fact, be coming back, but -- and here's the kicker -- at a huge price. The guy pulled one of the all-time great disappearing acts in SCF history. Rewarding him with tons of $ might not exactly do wonders for the locker room, if you know what I mean.

Family concerns (of the legal variety), money. I'm gonna go ahead and predict this shoulder injury is the deathblow for Stuart's future as a Wing.

Let's say Chelios doesn't come back. Assuming Stuart also doesn't come back, only three spots are set in stone on the blue line: Lidstrom and Rafalski as #1 and #2, respectively, and Kronwall as #3. Beyond that, it's a near free-for-all between youngsters and a couple of not-so-great, middle-of-the-road guys in Lebda and Lilja. There's no substantial veteran presence beyond Nick and Raffi, and those two are going to be playing on the same pairing, so they can only go so far in teaching the young guys. That's not a god situation, and that's basically why Chelios is coming back. Chelios and youth don't have to be mutually exclusive; just because Chelios is coming back doesn't mean the young guys won't each get a shot. I don't know why people seem to think otherwise.

I wish. He's worth it even at 8, though -- and I mean that in terms of his skill set and the Wings' lack of that kind of package. Contrary to popular belief, he's not just a poor man's Hank Zetterberg or a poor man's Pavel Datsyuk. Firstly, he's bigger (about 6-2, 210 pounds). Secondly, he could very well be faster. Some guy -- I think it was one of Hossa's former team mates -- once described him as being "absolutely unstoppable" when he gathers speed. That's because of his size and foot speed (which is showcased pretty well in that highlight video that dallas posted). Thirdly, he's a pure goal-scorer, whereas both Hank and Dats started out as playmaker types and have had to work at being more proficient go-to guys in the scoring department. Even now, Dats is clearly more comfortable as a setup man. Hossa, on the other hand, is completely comfortable in his role: scoring. The numbers back this up. As eva pointed out, this past season he missed ten games and scored "only" 29 goals. The last time he failed to score 30 goals was the '99-00 season. And, as YoungGuns pointed out, he has 61 points in 75 playoff games, which is actually objectively better than Datsyuk's 54 points in 82 postseason games -- and that's with a top-notch supporting cast each time, which can't be said of Hossa's past teams. Additionally, Hossa has an excellent defensive game. That's not to say Hank and Dats don't have the same, because they do. But I want to shoot down any notions of "selfishness" and "irresponsibility" and "one-dimensionality" that may be floating around here, as Hossa is very much an elite two-way player. (To make it sound a little sexier: you're looking at a guy who could easily be the Wings' leading scoring and one of their best defensive forwards.) Some people have called him selfish and immature in the past. I've never really understood that argument, and it certainly didn't make any more sense to me when Hossa was the only Penguin man enough to come out and say the Pens were being beaten not by the refs, not by obstruction, not by Zeus and his thunderbolts, but by the Wings' superior defense. That was a very classy move, and I can't help but wonder if Therrien's viewpoint at the time (refs, obstruction, Zeus, etc.) might have something to do with Hossa going to free agency....

Solid signing. Vinny is the heart and soul of the organization and one of the best players in the world, period.

He's useful as an enforcer type, and that role is useful in boosting morale, curbing cheap shots, etc. The guy's not going to net 15-20 goals, but no one expects him to. That's why he gets paid peanuts -- he's an enforcer type. Saying he's not good for much else is kind of missing the point. True, it would be nice to have someone who can enforce and put up good numbers, but players like that command more money than what Downey generally earns. Between those two options, I'd pick Downey. If all you need out of your enforcer is...well, enforcing, then why spend an extra $1-1.5 million on a "better player" when the guy playing for league-minimum (Downey) gives you exactly what you need out of that role?

Not along the blue line. Without Chelios, our only veterans on the back end would be Lidstrom and Rafalski, neither of whom plays the kind of game Cheli plays, and neither of whom could offer the kind of insight and lessons Cheli can offer. And a lot of that stuff is stuff you have to see put in action (i.e., done in games, not drawn on a clipboard). I have no problem with this signing. If he falters, his playing time can be given to Meech or Quincey or Ericsson.

I think you guys are getting bent out of shape over nothing. Ken Holland saying we'll have an enforcer really doesn't mean anything, for a couple reasons: 1) He also said we'd have a new big-name scoring winger last summer, and then again in the days leading up to the last trade deadline. Obviously that didn't come to fruition. 2) It's safe to say Kenny's idea of an enforcer doesn't stick close to the strict definition. As I've been saying, this "enforcer" will probably be Darren McCarty or Aaron Downey. Neither case would be especially shocking or worth fussing about. What would be genuinely shocking is seeing a guy like Laraque (that is, a legitimate enforcer) on the roster this season. I'd be all for it (at the right price), but come on, this is Ken Holland and the Detroit Red Wings we're talking about.

I'm secretly Ken Holland. Don't tell anyone.

And I'm sorry, but the day I don't take a guy like Hossa because some GM could potentially have me by the balls in a future deal is the day I shoot myself in the face.

Hossa =/= Whitney Hossa =/= Hatcher Hossa =/= Cujo Furthermore, the Wings will not be "screwed" if Hossa's knee "acts up." You take away Hossa and you still have more or less the same team that just won the Cup.