Dabura

I just realized we don't have a general rumors thread. (Well, not on the front page.) So here's a general rumors thread.

But surely you get the concern, right? FORWARD Larkin's not getting any younger, so we're gonna need Kasper to actually be every bit as good as we're hoping he is (and then some). DeBrincat and Raymond are good. That's our forward core at present. Is it good? Sure. Is it "This is how you build a perennial contender" good? I think that's up for debate. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on how you look at it), no amount of debate's gonna settle the question right now. We need more data. In terms of forward depth... Soderblom could be Franzen, but he's probably not. Which is fine. But we don't have Datsyuk and Zetterberg, so the need for each of our forwards to hit their ceilings is a bit greater than it would've been back when we were a powerhouse. Berggren's not the impact winger we'd hoped he'd be. Rasmussen has potential to be an x-factor shutdown guy, but more often than not, he leaves me wanting. The jury's completely out on Mazur, Danielson, and the Norwegian. That's not really a knock on them or even Yzerman. We just don't know yet. We can and should and will use trades and free agency to fill holes. But...so will every other team in the league. DEFENSE Seider and Edvinsson are cornerstones, which is great. But we're gonna need more. I really hope ASP is a beast. He doesn't need to be a great all-around defenseman, since we have the poster boys for that in Seider and Edvinsson (maybe Johansson too). But he does need to be able to more than hold his own in a top-four role. I'm not expecting anything from any of our other D prospects. GOAL Total crapshoot.

Yeah, I don't think you and I really hardcore disagree. Yzerman's picks are becoming NHLers and the pro scouting is boning us hard. At the end of the day, it's a question of how much faith you have in the youth. Personally, I like our young pieces. I can talk them up better than anyone can talk them up. I see the potential; it's obvious. Like, if a Sabres fan (the only fan we can dunk on with a straight face at this point, alas) steps to me with "Yzerfraud can't draft," I'd say Seider and Edvinsson were both 6th overall picks. They're gonna be logging insane minutes for a long, long time. They're gonna be playing in all situations. They're gonna be shutting down superstars and racking up points. These are players you get with top-3 picks. I wanted us to take Kasper. I've always felt - and still feel - everyone's wrong when they say his absolute ceiling is a fringe 2C. I could go on. So I'm definitely not blind to the good work Yzerman's done. But! But. But. But. I'm concerned. There's no way around it for me at this point. What's the difference between a mediocre team and a team with a lot of good players but nothing that really sets the team apart from half the other teams in the league? That's my fear. That all of Yzerman's picks could "be players" and it may not even matter because there's never that moment where everything clicks into place. My fear is Larkin hits 32 and we're just a fringe playoff team that gets overwhelmed by deeper teams and elite players who win close games in overtime. Is this rooted in airtight logic? Nah. I'm talking vibes. I freely concede that. Because we're all going on vibes at this point. Because vibes is kinda all we have. "So what is it you want?" Well, I don't really want Mitch Marner. I think we "need" a Marner, but I think I'm like you (and please correct me if I'm misrepresenting you here) in that I wonder what the hell our pro scouts actually do for a living. Which is to say: If we could, you know, bring in outside help actually helps, we're probably not even having this conversation. Doesn't have to (and probably shouldn't) be a $14M player. Just get us some actual good established players. I want to see what this team really is when it isn't weighed down by useless bloat. I want Yzerman to "be here now" instead of saying "I'm going to sign this plug for three years because three years from now is when this prospect will be ready." So that's why "the plan" frustrates me. I think the plan, at this point, is working against itself. Yzerman wants to incubate the youth and is willing to wait another ten years, but I think the youth is ready to roll and Yzerman's just kinda like "Yeah, ok, but winning now could mean losing later. I want a team that's gonna be competitive for the next 40 years." And the team keeps collapsing. And losing becomes the default expectation. And "all of a sudden" we're Buffalo and the cancer is terminal. I don't want to become Buffalo.

My point is we don't pop in either of the senses you're describing; we don't have 5,000-point scorers and we're not particularly deep. In a perfect world, we're Florida and we just run over everyone because we have no holes and our big guns kill and we forecheck like our lives depend on it. But teams like that are rare. My "realistic" hope is we become a team that's a pain in the ass to play against because every player is good and pulls his weight. But this is two straight seasons now that our personnel has wilted when the intensity ramped up and the stakes got real. A serious team doesn't drop both of those Columbus games. So, we can talk about Brayden Point...but do we have a lot of Brayden Points? Do we have any? Do we have x factors? Do we have the ingredients we need to become a team that gets it done in [insert any way you want]? To be fair, this is fan fatigue and frustration talking; I'm not being super-objective. But I look across the table at the super-objective crowd and it's just stats nerds and podcast bros (but I repeat myself) who will spend this summer writing Athletic pieces about how Yzerman needs to weaponize our cap space and take on some bad contracts in exchange for second-round picks, because that's how you build a winner. It's not all bad. Like I said, we do have good pieces. Edvinsson could end up being better than Seider; that's how good a rookie season he just had, imo. Kasper's a breath of fresh air. DeBrincat silenced his critics this season; he was great. Raymond's just getting started. ASP could be a gamechanger, or at least a really good complement to Seider and Edvinsson. (Maybe.) But is this going to be enough? Have we planted the seeds of perennial contention? Is time the only thing that separates us from glory? Or do we just have a lot of nice pieces and are we all going to feel quite silly if Carter Mazur's career is over before it even began? These are the questions that should be keeping Yzerman up at night.

Well, the plan is to wait for the kids to magically turn us into a contender. Which sounds nice, but I'm not seeing it. I mean, I like the pieces. Don't get me wrong. Raymond could be a 100-point player in his prime. But if we're being brutally objective, it's looking like all Yzerman's really assembled is the bare minimum core you'd expect from a non-elite playoff team. We have a good 1C. We have a good 1D. We have a couple good scoring wingers. Edvinsson's good. Kasper's good. But if ASP isn't an absolute monster or Cossa isn't Carey Price...then I don't know what makes us special. So, yeah: mushy middle.

Yeah, I mostly agree. I can forgive mistakes. We're human; mistakes will be made. What I don't like is what I perceive to be complacency. I get that there's a plan. I get that we're waiting for our prospects and young roster players to blossom. But asking everyone to believe the kids are going to get it done when every team has good kids and every team is competitive...is asking a lot at this point. At present, we don't really have an x factor. We have some very nice pieces. And no depth on the roster, somehow. It's frustrating.

We follow each other on X, so I'm morally obligated to say whatever he says is legit. But Idk. This is probably a nothing scoop. Probably some guys in the front office venting a little too loudly because they got pantsed by the Habs and are now alcoholics.

Seriously! Mad props, @LeftWinger! Also, I like Expedition Unknown.

Injury-prone; missed at least 30 games in each of the past three seasons. And he's just not an Yzerman-type defenseman (e.g. Trouba).

We don't - and almost certainly won't - have any generational talent. I've long since accepted that. It is what it is. My thing is this: If we're gonna do the win-by-committee approach...and we're eyeing the playoffs...and we don't have a particularly deep team (the kind of team that can do the win-by-committee thing)...then we need to load up on really good talent from outside the system. That'll make us competitive now, and foster a winning culture for the young guns, and keep pressure off said young guns. The key is...you have to actually do it. You have to lean into it. If you half-ass a win-by-committee approach, the team will suck and everyone's time and money is wasted. You always need to be on the ball. There's no "Well, maybe we take a step back this year, but it'd be worth it in the long run, because we have some good-not-great prospects coming in four years." That's dumb. I get frustrated when I feel like Yzerman's taking his foot off the gas in that regard. I know that sounds like I'm just an instant gratification junkie (guilty as charged, I suppose), but it really is more than that. I really don't think treading water is an option, if win-by-committee is the model. If we had two Raymonds and two Seiders and a 2C who's better than Compher, that'd be one thing. But, well, we don't. Tarasenko's a good add. If we add a really good defenseman, I'm happy. Fingers crossed.

The rebuild is in a bad, bad place right now.

Me getting excited about the rebuild every few months:

Yes, Elliotte Friedman just confirmed. Wow!

Dare we dream?????

Well, yeah. I heard MBN banged Corey Perry's mom. All he does is win. It's incredible.

The HYPE! rises.

https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/619176/michael-brandsegg-nygard

I don't wanna HYPE! this kid up TOO much and I know I'm really banging this drum here...but it's wild how much hate I'm seeing for this pick. And 99% of it's because we didn't take Eiserman. Maybe Eiserman's the better prospect. Maybe he's gonna be the better player. I don't know. No one does. What I do know is there's risk with players like Eiserman. He was available at 15 because lots of other people passed on him. And they passed on him because of the risk. I actually don't feel like finding pure scorers is a huge concern for us. Larkin scores. Raymond just put up 72 points. There's always trades and free agents. We pulled Kane out of our ass and he scored at a point-per-game clip. I think players like the player MBN has the potential to be are arguably harder to find and arguably more valuable than the player Eiserman could be. Like I said a few posts back, it's rare to find a two-way power forward with a lethal shot. How many of those can you even name off the top of your head? So in that sense, I kinda feel like MBN is a bigger "swing for the fences" pick than Eiserman would've been. I'm not one of those "TRUST THE YZERPLAN" bros. They annoy me. I just think most of the people complaining about this pick haven't actually researched the player. Because, again, he's pretty much the player they want.

Compher but with Sprong's shot.

Need

Imagine being upset with this pick lol https://dobberprospects.com/player/michael-brandsegg-nygard/

Having Kane AND Stamkos would be pure unadulterated chaos on so many levels. The final scores of all our games would be, like, 10-9. It'd be antithetical to everything Yzerman and Lalonde have preached (re: needing to improve defensively), but it'd be so much fun lol

It's rare that a hard-nosed, 200-pound, 200-foot player can shoot the puck like this kid can. It's exciting because a hard-nosed, 200-pound, 200-foot player should have no problem putting himself in a position to score. Usually it's "He can shoot, but he's soft, so he isn't getting to the prime scoring areas" or "He lives in the prime scoring areas, but he's a grinder, so he can't convert."

We stan a beautiful African-Norwegian kween. Yaaaaaas

Agreed. Playoffs are the expectation now. Rookies can play, but they won't be asked to shoulder the burden of those expectations. Problem is, we discovered this team lives and dies based on one single veteran leader (Larkin). So that has to be addressed. And it seems Yzermanager's pretty hellbent on doing just that. Which makes me happy. Goaltending's also crucial, but maybe not as important as giving this team some more leadership and steadiness and confidence and swagger. (Though, I guess that and goaltending aren't exactly mutually exclusive.) I mean, sure - ideally we have a superstar prospect kicking down the door and/or we add Guentzel and Roy. But we don't have the former, and I don't get the sense that we've become a realistic destination for non-flawed marquee UFAs. So we have to work with what's actually available. And, with the collapse at the front of our minds, that means (flawed) leaders like the captain of the Rangers and the captain of the Lightning. Does Trouba suck? Yeah, kinda. Is Stamkos - at this stage of his career - a power play specialist who's gonna take exactly zero reps at center because he can't play defense? Yeah, I suppose. But there's a human element to this. We saw it in small bursts with Kane. If you put *STEVEN STAMKOS* in our top 6 (which means no Kane, realistically), that's what I call "introducing exotic energy" - and I'd expect the team to respond in a positive way, like with Kane. Even if all he's doing is helping the power play, that could be enough to get us into the playoffs. We're not getting into the playoffs without solid special teams. Trouba's big and physical and dirty. This sounds like cope, but, honestly, we could use some big and physical and dirty. He's not gonna beat you into a pulp, but I'd like to think there's a bit of a Kronwall factor where players don't feel 100% comfortable crossing our blue line or going into our corners because there's a possibility you'll catch a cement elbow from a psychopath (or his 6'6 D partner will sit on you). I know "being hard to play against" in "the new NHL" means you have real good fancy stats - but there's still a place for "Hey, my teammate just leveled that guy who took a shot at our captain and now I wanna level someone too. Let's f***ing go, I'm scoring the OT winner!" Hockey is still a game of momentum swings. Little things still matter. In the age of parity, I'd argue they matter as much as they ever have. (See: missing out on the playoffs because of a tiebreaker.) tl;dr F*** this league, we're gonna do a sequel to the 2002 team one way or another. F***ing candy-ass cap league.