Brevard

It's funny (or not) that you reference the $2500 fine. During the day today Toews was interviewed and complained that there was no rhyme or reason to punishments. Specifically pointing that a clear intent to injure (Weber on Zetterberg) only got a very minor fine and no time. He said players often cross the line because nobody knows where the line is.

Four or five posts in this thread stating the Wings should have the heat on/off, paint the dressing room , ... (whatever). While I am not going to be critical of anyones age or lack of "experience" here I do want to ask ... You do know that it is game 4 of this series coming up right? GAME FOUR. The antics you describe are not something only done by Detroit and are not something Scotty Bowman devised himself. These things have been happeneing for decades but here is the skinny. ... You don't do it before game 4 when you know there will be a game 5 at the other teams rink. Hopefully you do not need for me to explain why.

I don't see the benefit to pissing off an opponent that is already younger and stronger than you.

Bitz gets 2 games for CHECKING from behind. Zetterberg gets his head slammed for checking from behind. Weber gets 2 minutes and a fine for a quick severe response.

And if a hockey message board wanted to have any credibility it would discipline any poster(s) calling for players to purposely injure other players.

Todd Bertuzzi says hi!

I have to amend my statement about coming here and being able to discuss hockey with hockey fans in the past. After looking at this thread I notice that except for haroldsnepts and hockeytown0001 you are all either newbees or old trolls. Makes me kind of sad, yeah, there was some ribbing both ways but it is fun to discuss hockey between different fan bases. It's pretty obvious those here now don't want that. it's more fun I guess to just be right all the time and never hear an opposing opinion. Have a good day Moderator/Admin feel free to delete the account or better yet remember my name and if the grown ups come back let me know.

Actually we came to the red wings message board to discuss a hockey related issue that both teams fans are aware of. I have actually been a member here for a while and lurker for long before that. Do the same on other boards as well. I don't come in and talk trash and am usually (even here) treated like a fellow hockey fan. ... This is actually a very rare happening where another teams fans come to a board and don't sling a bunch of negative crap but simply try to discuss a topic and the local board members seem unable to hold a discussion. And all the while you claim it is Hawk fans who lack knowledge or are immature. Take the blinders off and read this thread and tell me which teams fan base is not capable of hockey discussion.

This is ******* hilarious. You folks are claiming what Wings fans did to Federov was ok but what Hawk fans did to Chelios was wrong? Bygones my ass. See the photo earlier in the thread. That is a once in a lifetime moment caught in time. Chelios chose to disrespect the franchise and it's fans. At that point it's over. A decade from now when you celebrate your centenial would it be cool if all the living great donned the Winged wheel and Yzerman demanded to wear a Lightning sweater for the photo? C'mon do not kid yourselves. As for who boo'd it was by and large the old time fans who chose to boo as they feel the hatred. All the band wagoners pretty much clapped politely. As as for 90% of Hawk fans being bandwagon fans I used to go to Detroit from Chicago with my father and uncle because there were no tix available in Chicago yet the olympia was empty. So when Detroit sucked their place was empty and when Chicago sucked there place was empty. And now for a history lesson. For the record Chelios leaving can be blamed on both he and Chicago's (DEAD) owner. With a year left on his deal Chelios demanded to have an extension done. Chicago balked. GM Murray (another moron from the Wirtz era) said he hoped after the final year of the deal that he could resign Cheli for a fair amount ... (LESS) hoping to be able to reduce his role by then. Chelios balked and said if he was not resigned he wanted to be traded. Soon after that he is noted on Chicago sports radio as saying he hoped it could be worked out but if not he was open to a trade to any team EXCEPT the Red Wings, that he could never play for them. So Murray works out a trade and Chelios and Agent are told so they could meet the new GM and see if the extension can be done. Chelios refuses to meet the team and instead wants his agent to run point ... soliciting offers from teams who would be willing to sign Chelios for the amount he wanted. A short time later Chelios's agent gives Murray the offer from the only team that agrees to pay him what he wanted. The rest is history. Honestly I can live with that whole scenario (money makes the world go round) I cannot blame him for getting all he can. However as someone who has lived and (mostly) died with the Hawks since the mid 60's that picture shown here earlier) cannot be forgotten. That is a permanent scar and the ultimate display of disrespect to Chicago the team and it's fans. it is why Chicagoans still cheer guys like Larmer, Wilson and even Belfour (who also forced a trade) none of them acted in a manner equal to Chelios. have a good day.

Is everyone here under 40 years old? You do realize that was your team at one point. One other thing back when the Wings sucked I used to go to games up there because it was easy to get seats just like many Wing fans have done recently in Chicago. You pretend like Wings always have filled the arena ... When your team sucked your arena was near empty and you got high draft picks to build a team. Sound familiar?

??? I don't post a lot but I have been coming here longer than you have. Do you really want fans of other teams banned so you can all just be right all the time and stoke each other off? I guess maybe you might but there are others here capable of talking hockey without being total homers.

I dunno, I'm a Hawk fan and unless they tighten up a lot they will not have a long playoff. They (as a team) have played poorly the last 2 weeks or so. They still get points and wins on transition but in the playoffs things get a lot closer and tougher. I want nothing more than a Cup for the Hawks but unless something changes a lot it won't happen this year. Though they are still missing 2 key players and haven't iced a full team for a game all year, ... not once. Like I said before though, great game. Would have been nice if NBC actually decided to show all the goals. And i understand that Canada is hockey but to emulate them by bringing in PWG and Milbury is awful. If NBC got to pick a game to show this would have been it and IMO they blew it with piss poor coverage.

You are aware Eaves lost the fight right? The funny thing was PWG (Penis with Glasses) trying to make Versteeg out to be a fighter.

Hawk fan trying to get in before the haters ruin it. All pretty equal injury wise great game and rather than team hockey it came down to a trick shot event to decide the winner. Great game, this should be fun in April or May. All the best guys.

You keep calling out the Hawk fan for using that (or We) yet don't seem to notice the numerous Wing fans who do the same, why is that?

Exactly, Someone on page 1 writes he hopes it is not a snoozefest (like the Wild) and Miller time says "play Red Wing hockey" ... That is silly. The Wings have done a very decent job of playing with the injuries because they are not trying to play Red Wing Hockey. When Healthy you have an up and down skill team that can put up goals while playing decent defense. In my opinion the defense was not steller it was the near dominant offense that kept the puck from the opposition. The reality until you get some guys back is to NOT play R/W hockey. Use your 3 3rd/4th lines as shut down lines and try limit opposition chances and be patient for a few good opportunities. I am hardly an expert on the Wings though I watch them a lot on CI (Mick is the best color guy in the game) I am surprised regular posters are pining for the team it will ice tonight play a style that would most likely see them lose. As far as the Hawks tonight? Hard to say as it's still a young team. They dominated last night and came up empty. It will be interesting to see how they react. Fact is someone looking at the stats would say Huet sucked and that was not the case. 1st 2 goals were 2 glaring Duncan Keith errors. He is said to be one of the best in the game so maybe they just write it off as part of a long season and move on. Guess we will find out soon enough.

Of course the Hawks were without a 1st, 2nd and 4th line player for that game and the Wings were healthy but as the other poster has shown injuries only matter when they are Wings players injured.

I understand that injuries force a style change but the Wings look like the Wild and Devils of Lemaire.

Chicago hasn't had a non sellout in over a year now.

Franzen played 18 + minutes and Zetterberg almost 22. Of course the Hawks were missing a 1st, 2nd and 4th liner that game and lost a close one. Or do you not consider opposition injuries as they cut into your excuse factor?

Toews is a western kid. Said he wears 19 for some guy named Joe from Colorado.

Some clarification for you guys (response to various things posters wrote in this thread. 1) Toews and Kane cannot hit ALL bonus clauses this year. One of them is ROY which obviously can be hit in only yr 1. it has already been pointed out both will leave some bonus money on the table as clauses they have written in are not gimmes like say the old Thornton deal. Also understand that at the opening of the season you technically don't have a roster so when Hossa was placed on LTIE any deal can be used as it's "replacement" deal. There were articles during camp about this. Rumor is that "on paper" Sharp is Hossa's replacement. This means that you total all otehr contracts. Then add Sharp's. The amount that Sharp's contract put you over the cap doesn't count against the cap while Hossa is on LTIE. It counts to the cap but not beyond it. So right now the Hawks are technically at the cap and not over it. After Hossa returns they may end up over it (with bonuses) for a while but that number will come down when bonuses are not hit and it is also only partial year amounts (remember the cap is calculated daily). 2) As far as cap hell goes, well having too many good players is better than the alternative but most would agree the Hawks have movable assets that will garner interest if placed in front of 29 other GM'S. Many predict both Kane and Toews to get over 5 mill. (your 4 mill # was nice but I don't think so) Richards, Getzlaf and a few others are benchmarks both sides can use. So if (guess) Toews and Kane get 5.2 each and Keith gets 5.0 that totals 15.4 million. The 3 already have a combined hit of 8 million so we are really only talking 7 million in new space. Too much you say? Well many agree Chicago has a slew of kids ready, In fact Hockey news recently stated the problem in Chicago is not talent it is finding a place for all the kids to play. Try this, Madden is a on a 1 year deal @ 2.750m per. end of year he can re-up at a mill or is replaced by a kid on an ELC. Savings 1.750m Sopel either goes to the AHL or is traded with a 2nd rd pick for a 3rd rd pick. Savings 2.333m (already carry 8 D-men won't replace) Curtis Brown buyout ends. ... savings .456m, .............. total savings 4.539 million. Now is where decisions have to get made. 2 guys have to move from a group that includes Sharp, Versteeg, Byfuglien, Bolland and Barker. All would have considerable open market value. I thinnk who they decide to move depend part on how well those guys play this year and also how well the kids who would be coming in on ELC's do and what roles they can be projected to replace. (if it's Beach, maybe you move Byfuglien. If it is Makarov you could move Versteeg. if Danis-Pepin is growing into the next Chara then Barker goes. ... something like that) For sake of argument lets make it Versteeg and Barker. This takes about 6.15 mill off the cap. this means over 10.6 mill in cap space and probably 3.3 mill in space after the big 3 are signed. Leaves money to replace the 2 missing pieces with ELC's and give small raises. It will be tight but i think Red Wing fans understand what we Hawk fans are just now stating to see. When you are good it is always a battle. Some hawk fans are devastated that we will lose a few pieces because of the cap. That is another area where you folks have experience and know this happens. The key will be Bowman getting a good mix of picks and prospects back to keep a pipeline. flowing.

As an outsider (a Hawk fan who visits from time to time as i do many other teams boards) I would be surprised if they miss the playoffs but won't be surprised at what i see as a fairly steady and far falling decline over the next few years. For this season the Wings have essentially lost a player off each line (Hossa, Samuelsson, Hudler, Kopecky) and are trying to replace them with castoffs and players from lower lines moving up. One of the reasons the Wings were good was they had that depth but now ... Lose a 1st liner and a 2nd liner bumps up. Also lose a 2nd liner and you are bumping up 2 3rd liners. Also lose a 3rd liner and your whole 4th line is the 3rd line. It didn't happen exactly that way but the signings the Wings are trying to plug in the holes are not good enough and it is time for some of you to be honest ... There is very little on the way. The Wings were built in origin on the backs of great drafts from the mid 80's into the early 90's. From that point until recently with a deep pocketed owner money was freely spent to fill and holes as needed. Back in the big spender days moving picks to find those players was no problem, just sell more Pizzas and buy the players you need. Now that is not an opotion and (IMO) it will hit the Red Wings harder and deeper than many other teams. Fact is they have nothing on the way that most would consider top flight prospects. This because of both winning and trading. Somethign like 92% of all NHL players come from the 1st 4 rounds and while you can all wave Zetterberg and Datsyuk in peoples faces that is over a lot of drafts and includes a lot of higher round failures. 2003 = no 1st, no 3rd, Howard and Quincey 2004 = no 1st, no 2nd, Franzen, McGrath 2005 = Possible 2nd pair D and 2 bottom 6 wingers. Too early for the rest but you only had 2 1sts in those 3 years and because you were good none is higher than 27th. And only 2 2nd round picks over that period along with 4 3rds and a 4th. The teams decline will be it's lack of depth, mostly caused by moving picks for players in the glory years. What do you really have to show (draft wise) for the 11 year period from 1994 to 2004? (Franzen, Filppula, Kronwall, Zetts and Dats and Holmstrom) Combine that with the above and the ages of your current stars and I don't think it is going to be pretty. They will make the playoffs and actually depending on how Chicago and St. Louis mature they could even win ONE MORE division. However you can't consider them a cup threat and this will be the last year at or near the top of the mountain. All of that of course is just my opinion, I could be wrong.

1st Walk up ticket sales in the NHL increased last year, as did overall attendance. 2nd Economic downturn pretty much bottomed out before the end of the 2nd Q of 2009. Revenues will be impacted much less than you think. Hawk specific, ... Not sure if any follow the team closely but they have several forwards pretty close to making it to the NHL. Toews, Kane and Keith already have a cap hit of 8 million per year. Most expect that they will end up getting about 15 million total per on 2 or 3 year deals. So reality is the Hawks need to shed 7 million + whatever the cap decline is ... if any. Move #1 Sopel and a 2010 2nd rd pick to team XXX for AHL fodder = 2.333m saved (8 D-men signed to 1 way deals now.) Move #2 Madden deal expires replaced by youth on ELC = 1.850m saved Move#3 Trade of a forward replaced by youth on ELC = 2.100 saved (Versteeg or Byfuglien both earn right at 3m per) Move #4 Brown buyout disappears = .456 saved That totals 6.639m. the team is not really weaker and honestly I expect them to move both Versteeg and Byfuglien because they have 4 kids cominig ... 2 of which appear to be top 6 probables.

Without the bulls*** make up calls would the wings have gotten 3 in the 2nd?