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Everything posted by Learn2LuvIt
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Ducks fans are already throwing their hands up in outrage over the officiating in this series and how the "league" wants the Wings to win. "Ain't nobody got time for that!"
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Ummmm...of course you should. The real question is are you Verlander or Valverde?
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Babs on last night's D: "...best we've had all year."
Learn2LuvIt replied to unsaddleddonald's topic in General
I agree. I took exception to Cleary's big mouth/comments during the lock-out, but White was yapping his mouth as well, which didn't sit well with me. He would have lasted a week with Scotty Bowman. I think White will get a few more chances with Babs and if Bab's doesn't see a change....he's gone. And quickly. White is a veteran with a fairly solid reputation. I often hear other teams announcers and people involved in the league (Pierre McGuire referring to Wings veteran leadership, Esposito on Sirius, John Davidson interview on Columbus radio, to name a few) who speak very highly of White. So I believe there is a market out there for him....warranted or not. The way I see it is that he'll throw a fit and tank until he gets traded if Babs keeps him in the doghouse or even if Babs keeps benching him. This could get FUGLY! -
Okay, now we've gone from an economic model that doesn't work, to absurd random guessing at an attempt to win an economic debate. 10 more ads on the boards? Don't think there would be enough space to add 10 more ads, plus and a good portion of the current sponsors are involved in bigger bundled packages that include TV (Belle Tire, DMC), Vendor Participation (Miller Lite, Molson, FoxSports), or are non paying/net revenue sponsors (Little Caesars) so it's not just about throwing up an ad on the boards, there has to be companies willing to pay that money$...but let's focus on the bigger absurdities. 4 more ads/sponsors on the ice....there are only two sponsors (4 ads ) right now?? Where would you put these ads??? I don't get it. Okay, moving on. Raise the ticket prices across the board $3 and raise the average concession prices by $1?? Not to throw reality into your thought process, but you can win ANY economic debate by raising revenue/income to whatever random level achieves your number$. Our economy is failing....just raise the GDP$ to whatever number$ that makes our economy look like it's not failing?? BTW...raising the ticket prices and concessions actually puts your product/attendance in some jeopardy...there is only so much consumer disposable income and amount they will pay. This actually may reduce your numbers because people can't afford to attend the games. There is a price of diminishing returns with any price bump. But IF, IF, IF they were to attempt to do all of which you state....they would only breaking even with their old revenue model!! Why would owners do this? Put their attendance at risk to make the ice surface bigger?? They just proved to us throughout the lock out that the actual game of hockey is secondary to how much money they make as a business. And then there is the parking revenue lost for those 1000 attendee's. Granted, not all would park at parking garages/spaces where Olympia Entrtnmt derives revenue, but some/good portion would. And then there is the actual cost to overhaul the building(s) to make these changes. Throwing out random numbers$ on this is silly cause I don't even know "ball park" figures, but I'm guessing it's not cheap at all. I would however bet it's a couple of million dollars at least. But I may be way off. Then the kicker....you are just considering Detroit and Joe Louis Arena. HockeyTown. One of the premier hockey markets in the NHL. How in the world would the above go over in shaky hockey markets like...Columbus, FLA, Phoenix, Carolina, Long Island, Nashville, etc!!!!!???? "Hey Coyote fans!!!...Hang on to your hats cause we've got some great news....although you barely come out and see the games now and the status of IF we actually will exist as a hockey team tomorrow is in constant limbo...we're gong to raise prices on tickets and concessions so you can potentially more exciting hockey on a bigger ice surface!!!!" Again....Not happening. Booya - Ding!
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Respectfully....I don't think you read my post thoroughly. I never mentioned losing premium seats (other posters did), I simply stated that you would be loosing three rows at ice level. Which you would be....I don't care how you want to number the rows and what you charge per that row....really not that relevant. But for argument sake; let's take your assertion that an arena would loose three rows. That's at least 300-400 seats!! (and that's a very conservative number....look at a map of The Joe and start counting). So let's take your theory and follow it through (at least try)....the top seats of the lower bowl at the Joe go for $80 a seat (that's actually low as I did my research and three of the major ticket venue's have the average price of these top lower bowl rows a bit higher than $80 per seat). = Math (using low numbers and averages to give you a break make sure there is no doubt you have no clue): 300 seats x $80 per seat = $24,000 per game in lost revenue $24,000 in lost revenue per game x 41 home games per year = $984,000 in lost revenue per year!!! Also things any owner/business minded person would consider: 300 people per game that are NOT buying your food, pop, beer, jersey's/swag, and parking!!!! A survey conducted by HockeyBroad 65.7% of hockey fans claimed they spent more than $26 above ticket price when attending an NHL game. Link to article and survey http://www.hockeybroad.com/ = Math 300 fans per game x $26 = $7800 in lost revenue per game. 41 home games per year x $7800 = $319,800 in lost revenue per year!!!! So now we are up to $1,303,800 in lost revenue per year!!!! Lastly: Construction cost remove these 3 rows!! (Again, I'm no builder or architect...but this sounds like a couple million at least). In your statement about adding more premium glass seats....maybe some, but not that many. Having 100 more seats that you can charge $30 more per seat (again...Math: 100 more premium seats x $30 more per seat...$3000 per game....$123,000 season....this doesn't offset the $1,303,800 you lost in achieving this + building costs!!!). Hell, you could add 200 more premium seats and the economics STILL don't work. Any why, because the fans want it. I'm not sure if you were around the last 6 months of the lockout, but the owners don't have a huge respect for "what the fans want". They are business owners first, hockey people second. Dude...I'm no Bill Gates....but you're the one who might want to think this out. Booya.
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Simple: Wider rink = Less seats = Less Income for owners = No go Additionally, some arena's cannot accommodate wider rinks due to the building and steps to lower area seating being built to go all the way down to the boards. Unless they tore out concrete steps a wider rink would not be possible. I'm no builder or architect...but that just sounds expensive.
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I've actually been very critical of Bab's the past few years. Last year reaching the apex because I thought we had the roster to make it to at least the WCF finals. However, I think he's doing an outstanding job this year. As many posters have stated, our roster has gone through a significant overhaul bringing in a lot of young players who show a lot of promise, but don't have the NHL ice time to have proven they can play consistently at this level. Before the season started many within the organization and outside of the organization had serious concerns about the D aspect of our game. For good reason. The first week of play really supported these concerns as valid...it was pretty scary. But there is no doubt we defensively look much, much better. In fact, at times I've thought our D has played very well. Not great, not elite, but solid. How you get the puzzle of B Smith, Lashoff, Carlo injured, Huskins, and a struggling Quincy to work is (IMO) attributed to a great positional coaching and head coaching. So at this point of the season, I'm giving Babs and staff a HUGE thumbs up. Also as a logical answer to the topic of this thread....who would you replace him with that is a better coach? I start to think of coaches that have been good to great, not many that are consistently great, and I'm hard pressed to find someone that would surpass Babs in that regard (Stanley Cup, Olympics, etc..). Finding a coach that you believe would be AS GOOD as Babs is really just getting a coach because you believe he's lost the players and there needs to be a symbolic change. Sure a new coach can rah-rah the team at first, but often the honeymoon on this is short, and then it all reverts back to how good is an actual coach (system, strategy, personnel manager, leader, preparation, motivation, etc...) . Still hard pressed to think of a BETTER coach than Babs.
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Things that are better than the Wings special teams.
Learn2LuvIt replied to dats13owns's topic in General
A few: Verizon customer support WalMart at Christmas time Gas station air hand dryers I-75 South summer traffic coming home from Up North Flint Crime Stoppers success rate -
I have to come clean though....I booed Cleary on the introductions. As my previous posts may had indicated, his lock-out rhetoric and comments regarding the League were driving me insane. I thought it was a bit "non Red Wing" like for him to be always yapping his mouth. So, I promised myself I'd boo him at first opportunity. Now that I did that, it's out of my system and he's back in good stead in my world.
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Went to the game last night. We looked good in most aspects, except for Defensive positioning by a few of the younger guys (Lashoff and Smith). Stars forwards were getting behind them all night. I liked our compete level last night though, we were moving our feet the whole game. Highlight of the night: the crowds reaction to Tootoo being announced pre-game.
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Well, when you watch your team Captain Shea Weber slam someone's face into the boards after the whistle, what example of class and respect did he have to follow or live up to?? I think Z as his Captain will evoke a different/cleaner Tootoo. If that happens...watch out JV and Miggy....Detroit has a new "favorite son".
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This could effect his ability to shoot soft wristers from 50 feet out.
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Michael Menert - The Same Disease
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Maybe...maybe not. I don't think so though. Hasn't stopped players from taking head shots. Hasn't stopped players from leaving their feet on hits. Hasn't stopped serious boarding infractions. BTW....still does nothing to get the call right on the spot. I believe in any officiating the ultimate goal has to be to get the call right at that time at least the NFL believes so as they will take as much time needed for refs to get the call right before play proceeds. Is it perfect, no, but it's a lot better than it was without on-field video review. Getting the call right at that time is the key. How is a post game video or player penalty any conciliation to a team that just lost a playoff series due to this?? "Don't worry guys...we're sending a video to the league about that dive....so hopefully the player will get a suspension or fine...season over and have a great summer!". Ask any player this question..."Game 7 of a playoff series, late in the third period, the game is tied....would you risk a one/two game suspension to get a two minute power play?" I bet every player say Yes! Also, do you know how many "videos" the league office would get daily....OMG, every team would send multiple videos of the other teams players for even the slightest of questionable embellishments for every game in hopes that they actually may get an opposing player penalized which could be a future advantage ("squeaky wheel gets the grease"). Also, I think goalies are the biggest violators embellishment of contact....this has been accepted for years...why no outrage on this (kind of like punters in the NFL).
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I agree something needs to be done. However, the post-game analysis by the refs I'm not so sure about. Except in cases where major known injury inducing moves/plays are being reviewed by the league office for disciplinary action, I don't believe post game analysis of diving wouldn't result in the desired effect. For one, infractions and penalties must apply to the current game being played, not future games or penalties (e.g. suspensions, fines, etc...). In reality, it's all moot after the game is completed. For example, take a huge playoff game 7. Player on Team A dives and gets a penalty called on Team B for a phantom penalty. Team A scores on the power play and wins the game and series. How would that post game ref analysis help the team that lost? Series is over...there is no going back and replaying that game. The point is always to get the call right regardless of time or method taken to do so during the game (i.e. NFL fumble or reception reviews). In addition, I don't think the "public shaming" would be that big of deal to the players as suggested. I've heard players talk about "getting away" with hits/calls/embellishments as if it were a thing of bravado....especially when the plays result in a victory or a goal. As in...."I did everything in my power to help my team win....did it for the team." For example, players who tenaciously argue that they didn't have a "kicking motion" for a goal that went off their skate. Or jamming at puck that is under a goalie and play is whistled dead? Why aren't they shamed or embarrassed about breaking the rules on these plays? Maybe it's because diving is viewed as soooo "bush league" and against the "code", I don't know. I just know that post game penalties/fines/suspensions don't help a team that suffered a loss due to the call. The penalties on divers must apply to the current game. Video review by the War Room in Toronto (that reviews goal calls) could be an option though.
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After reading/watching/following (twitter/facebook/etc...) everything that I possibly can get access to, I'm siding with the owners. I guess more specifically, I'm siding against the Fehr brothers. I think they are doing a disservice to the NHLPA by giving them a false sense of bargaining power in this negotiation. Although both sides can say what they want, I believe the owners compromised on a few of the NHLPA "top priority" issues that they previously had refused to, in an effort to display some good will toward the players and get a deal done. However, the owners did express that just as the players had "top priority issues", so did the owners. The owners compromised and I truly believe the Fehr brothers took this not as good will, but weakness on the part of the owners....which led to them cheer lead to the players that there is an even better deal to be had...."we've got em on the ropes boys!!" These owners have put millions and billions of THEIR OWN MONEY into purchasing/maintaining their respective clubs. Huge money that was made in another industries. Do you think they are going to let the Fehr brothers "pull punches" in the waning hours when a deal was very likely headed to be signed?? I don't think Fehr have installed a true sense of reality into the players. It may and should be construed as fear. Fear of what?....Fear that they really are replaceable. Fear that, in reality, a lot of these players don't have a lot of attractive options beyond the NHL. You worked your whole life to play in the NHL and now....you play in AHL....you play in Europe? Second rate league, half way around the world from your home...with sub par accommodations (some say dangerous accommodations...look at just the travel accommodations alone and the tragedy of the plane crash that took our former coach BC and so many other players lives). A league that puts on average 1/2 of the people in the seats night after night. Fear that for a lot of these guys without hockey they'd be back working the family farm in Manitoba. How much does that pay?? So let's get real players. You are paid a huge salary under the last CBA and any future agreement. You are going to make a TON of money for playing a GAME. Mr. Player, what did you contribute to make the whole Detroit Red Wings enterprise work?? Your 3rd line play and constant injuries after being left for dead by the entire NHL and given one last chance with the Wings?? (sorry Dan Cleary, but your tweets and rhetoric have gotten under my skin). A big goal in a playoff game?? An NOW YOUR ENTITLED to the revenues and business compromising advantages of the entire business?? Get real. Players; we wear your jerseys and have unwavering support for you....and you can't even have our backs as fans? "Well look at how much money the owners are making....we want some of it for ourselves"....I say...GET REAL, WHAT OTHER BUSINESS LETS YOU LOOK AT THE BALANCE SHEET AND START MAKING DEMANDS OF YOUR OWNER ABOUT WHAT YOU WANT!! They paid hundreds of millions of their dollars to own the business and with that, the risk of owning and NHL team. They earned that right to run their business. You earn your right to wear the jersey (Winged Wheel) and you earn your right to more playing time and potentially a salary raise. You don't do anything but play hockey and know nothing to very little about running a business. So Dan Cleary....go back to Newfoundland and earn your living back there...go play in Europe year after year if you don't like it...maybe try real estate. I realize that might screw up your 3 golf rounds a week at Oakland HIlls (true), but hey, we should be falling all over you right....YOUR DAN CLEARY!!! A bit aggravated this morning. As a fan who loves this game and have supported this game and players for 35 years...players need to fire Fehr and start making rational/reality for themselves. Decisions for the fairness of yourselves as millionaires playing a game, and for the fans who you all claim you "can't thank enough" (excerpt from any player interview regarding the fans).
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R.I.P. Budd. Thanks for the memories. I wish we could have gotten you a few more games to help call.
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Blah, blah, blah....can you name players we've heard of before I went to college with Stan Bowman and Al Arbour's daughter.
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I get your point, but have a question for you: If what you're saying is true then... why doesn't Dan Cleary pad his stats or score meaningless points? Or Hank? or Bert? Or Flip???? Do they recognize the two situations you described above (no name opponent and or late goal in a game we have no chance of winning) and deliberately try NOT to score? You don't think when Bert was reeling this year looking for offense that he wouldn't have loved padding his stats? Or Cleary?? The fact is that this guy can score goals more than most other guys on our team (in fact, in 2012...ALL other guys). That is fact.
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I don't buy this for a minute. We just lost our 2nd leading goal scorer (Hudler) and someone is suggesting that we are looking to trade Franzen who was leading goal scorer last year??? That would be losing 54 goals? I don't think Kenny will offer up Franzen in any deal. I'm all for the Wings giving the young guys ice time and a chance to prove themselves...but that's a **** ton of goals to replace. Unfortunately, if we give up anything, IMO...it would be a less proven contributor(s) when it comes to flat out offense, or a couple of younger guys/prospects. I know Franzen is inconsistent and comes with some baggage....but you can't lose two of your top D men and two of your top goal scorers in the same off season!!! Young guys are great and provide a lot of hope, but they are unproven. Youtube videos of Euro hockey games don't mean anything to a GM who is paid to produce wins in the NHL.
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Especially considering the last CBA and losing an entire season, the fact that the season starts (or supposed to) in 20 something days and both parties are "very, very far apart" makes me want to strangle someone. Why the rush ass bags???!!!!
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The past four days, I was actually surprised the Wings got as close to the finish line with either of these players. I think Suter and Parise both had a very heavy eye on going back home way before July 1st rolled around. It was going to take a mammoth effort/offer to get them to even look at other options. I think Parise played the re-signing with the Devils "card" out of respect and appreciation for his time spent there, but I don't think he ever intended to stay a Devil. Marty staying may have made him rethink for a nano second, but I think his mind was made up. Suter I believe the same. His talks with the Preds and Dave Poile were just out of respect. Heard on Sirius NHL this morning that Poile feels kind of the same way. Okay, so if they're not going to stay with their current teams, why not the Wings? I honestly believe what Kenny is saying is the main truth about this deal, and what both of the players are saying..."family wins". Wives and what is going to make them happy for the next 13 years, win. Mom and Dad-win. With parity in the NHL these days-any good team can win the Cup. So even if Kenny would have matched dollar for dollar...going home-Wins. Again, I'm impressed that Kenny got an invitation from Suter and invited them into town last Friday to discuss. I believe the Wild decision in both their heads was a done deal....unless Detroit comes in and pulls their pants down with some outrageous offer that would be insane to turn down. The Wings haven't lost their "luster", they just lost a deal(s) that they really didn't have a RESPONSIBLE shot at getting done. In fact....I think it's the Wings "luster", to the dismay of the Wild brass, that actually got Suter and Praise's heavy consideration....not to mention a face-to-face meeting at the 11th hour of the deal. So on Friday, where were all the other GM's that had very deep pockets and very high interest in Suter??? Not in Wisconsin. my wife is calling me now...gotta head home.
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Suter Watch: Decision today, down to Wings/Wild
Learn2LuvIt replied to HockeytownRules19's topic in General
Why didn't we send a plane with the top brass to go see Hudler??- 487 replies
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Suter Watch: Decision today, down to Wings/Wild
Learn2LuvIt replied to HockeytownRules19's topic in General
Maybe we just had the plane circle his house at low altitude for an hour or so to make sure he's crystal clear on our desire to sign him.- 487 replies
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signed Red Wings Sign Jordin Tootoo to 3-yr deal, $1.9M/yr
Learn2LuvIt replied to Tim.D's topic in General
I don't want the Tootoo whistle to replicate here in Detroit. I always thought it gave the Preds opposition a bit of an advantage by letting everyone know what he was on the ice. I guess It could be looked at as an advantage for the Preds (e.g. opposing players getting their head up and not focusing on the play)...but all-in-all I thought it was a slight disadvantage to the Preds. Other teams get a "heads up" that he's on the ice (in lieu of not realizing he's out there and getting hammered). Also, not that coaches aren't fully aware, but it's a timing thing....the whistle let coaches know exactly when he got on the ice instead of a lot of cases it may take a coach 5-10 seconds to identify and match lines accordingly.