Learn2LuvIt

Fair point and I agree with you to some extent on the players from past eras. I think Sid is held in such high regard because of the few items you mention, AND the fact that he was a part of the Production Line (that basically equaled the Bruins "Kraut Line") that was previously being called in that era as the best line of all time (again in that era). He was also named to the "100 Greatest Players Of All Time" last year, but so was Feds and a bunch of other guys (Some of which i question), so moot point on that. I wouldn't be upset of 91's jersey got retired, it's just if it were my call i would vote "no".

My point was just addressing your statement about Wings players in the rafters and playing their entire career with the Wings. "Should not" = Just because Z's jersey is getting retired doesn't mean i have to agree with it. No, they should be up in the raters. I believe for their era of hockey those four were in the category of "elite of the elite".

Ummmmm...Sid Abel didn't play his entire career with the Wings? Terry Sawchuk didn't play his entire career with the Wings? Ted Lindsay didn't play his entire career with the Wings??? Lastly, to your "being a true Red Wing" Shanahan has stated that he will forever associate himself with being a Wing. Anyway, to go back and stay to my original point: 91, 13, 40, and 30 should not be in the rafters. And neither should Shanny.

i'd say no to these guys being in the rafters. I personally like it as "THE Elite of the ELITE" only up in the rafters. The "NO DOUBTERS". If you put these guys up in the rafters, then you set the slippery slope of opening the door/debate for some "equally deserving" players who were very good/great (e.g. Shanahan, others). Then before you know it, we're attending a Brett Lebda jersey retirement ceremony. Keep is at the Elite OF THE ELITE....The No Doubters.

This is a major part of our problems in the last 5+ years with our organization. We covet and want to keep our average talent with hopes of the player improving beyond which is likely realistic. IMO...we need to start trading these average players while they have still have value and start getting pieces that have proven ability...EVEN IF this puts us in situations where the evaluation of the trade seem like the Wings didn't get the "better" of the deal. I'd rather get a solid 2nd/3rd liner who can play RIGHT NOW and trade away some players who are going to be "projects" but show they have a lot of potential, than to sit on these guys who don't pan out and get nothing for them. This would also, in turn, help our cap management strategy which is garbage and has put us behind the "8 ball". Tired of this organization and all of their high hopes and pet projects when it comes to player development. Many of the players in GR which we all (myself included) tend to over hype and salivate for when looking at their performance in GR, or in Traverse City training camp. Yes, we need to have some patience and they need to be given a fair shot at making the Wings club. But their needs to be a shorter decision point, and if they can't cut it, SOME (not all) of these guys need to be packaged up and included as assets in potential trade deals. Our organization seems to think that success in GR is going to translate in to solid Wings/NHL players and it's simply not the case. The overall success of the Griffs has at times blurred the optics on some players who we think will be superstars for the Wings one day. Screw "one day". I get annoyed every Sept when i read article after article about training camp and how X or Y player is going to be a "Stud" down the road. Wings need to be more decisive with their talent decisions before it's too late and they just rot in GR/AHL the rest of their careers. There are only approx 600 players playing in the NHL...the odds are low that many these pet projects the Wings love investing in will play in the NHL..or at least not play for very long.

The process sucks

Agreed. I also believe that Holland thought that the Grand Rapids talent pool was a lot deeper and more NHL caliber than the actual reality.

Kenny's too smart to do fire Blash AT THIS CURRENT TIME. IF we were to fire Blash, then we have a new coach with a clean slate with a year (or two, or three) to prove themselves. Like or hate Blash, I don't think with this current roster that a new coach is going to be able to improve/"move the needle" enough to make this a clear indication that our primary problem was bad coaching. A new coach MAY show improvement, but IMO not enough improvement to vindicate our talent level/bad roster. In addition, if a new coach is put in place, then in the interim, the focus really become our roster and he's 100% solely responsible for this aspect of the organization. It works to Kenny's advantage in this final year of his contract to have the fans/media questioning the coaching and not the talent/roster he responsible for. Playing this out a bit further; If Kenny does get an extension at the end of this year (or knowing the Ilitches, before the end of the year), Blash is done.

Great effort last night. What stood out to me most was they were quick and "moving their feet" (Babs wording). Didn't see many guys get caught standing still and we were quick and crisp in gaining the zone. Also loved Abby's reference after the game of his thoughts on the victory; "we started on time"...LOL another famous Babs line.

Valid statement. However, as typical, follow the money and the relationships. I see the Canes being relocated being a tough battle for the NHL/Bettman. Karmanos (who owns the Canes) has pretty deep hockey ties to the NHL/Bettman. Phoenix on the other hand, I much more could see happening. Their primary ownership is a hedge fund manager and doesn't have the history or relationship pull as Karmanos does. Just as Bettman finally gave in to Mr. I and putting us in the Eastern Conference due to Mr. I's status as an owner, commitment to his product, AND being a good sport in letting his team taking a beating in terms of traveling all over the West Coast for years. Not to mention the TV revenue that was lost as many sponsors didn't want to buy ad packages with the Wings due to the fact that many of their games started at 9-10 PM local time, and didn't end till after midnight. The reasoning was that the Wings were always a HUGE draw on the West coast and sold TONS of tickets across West coast arena's for regular season games. I firmly believe factors and scenarios like this figure into the discussions and decisions in the back rooms of the NHL executive offices.

I think they look better this year for sure. The younger groups are starting to develop some chemistry and I think this is producing a better neutral zone transition game. Special teams has improved. Mantha has also been key, I believe he's becoming the core leader (on and off the ice) of this young group and giving them a lot of confidence and an identity.

Not sure if anyone has been noticing, but E is a complete disaster and a liability. Last night's penalty in the 3rd to put the Avs on the PP was horrendous. I get it...it was just one bad penalty, but with E, he's just been really, really, really bad this whole year (and last year). I've seen him twice this year (and it's early yet) blindly pass off the boards with his back turned away from the play, from our own zone, 40 foot passes directly across the ice. Twice the passes have been picked off, and the other team ends up putting it in our net. Not only that, when the passes were picked off, he is so slow to transition back to covering the play. In one instance, it didn't even look like he was hustling to get back! Due to his speed and fact that he's mentally in "la la land", he's also a dumpster fire in front of our net. He has trouble working from top-slot to side/below the net. Which also on numerous occasions has left the his area of responsibility wide open and the other team passes from behind the net to wide open player who buries it in our net. He's not tough and often just arrives at the "scene" late after the Refs have already broken players apart, just to chirp at someone. Very similar to Franzen. IMO...I don't think many of these players are intimidated in the least by him even though he's often tons bigger. In 2015 he had 121 hits (stat wise his best year with the Wings), last year he had 86. So if he's focusing less on being physical...what's he focusing ON??? I'm just so frustrated with this guy. I can't figure out why he gets 19+ minutes of ice-time a night?? I remember a few years back when he got into the Babs dog-house big time..he actually responded for a few weeks and was good (not great). You could tell he was under heat and trying to get out of the Babs cross hairs. Besides this, doesn't seem like this guy can cut it anymore. I'd much rather give some of our younger D players with less experience and more speed/grit/heart an opportunity if this is what E HAS and IS bringing to the table. Venting...but I can't take it anymore. Would another team "bite" on him due to his size or something else???

Seems the consensus is that he's player better this year. Maybe you all are right, I'm a tad bias as I vomit at the sight of him. That being said, do you think the fact that he's playing better, has good size, could be considered a "veteran", could make him a viable trade asset/piece? Or is his salary hit still too large$ for another team to consider? I want him gone!!

ha ha...was that two minute soliloquy after the ridiculously stupid, unneeded, horrible timed penalty in the 3rd that lead to the Avs starting their comeback to win the game? Funny, cause our radio team just spent some time last Wed on pregame to the Flames game saying the exact opposite. Anyway, I Totally agree with you. Someone in this organization likes him to the point of being blind. Reminds me of the Jason Williams/Brett Lebda organizational love. Why I am bringing this up now as juklitz posed...good question. I just can't take it anymore!!! I swear under my breathe whenever I see him on the ice. But now, I think we now have some legitimate, viable, "net-net" gain options with some of our younger guys to sit him or trade him..something!! He's literally driving my insane with rage.

Good one kickazz. Ha ha ha. I'm assuming your joking or haven't been watching. Good one!

He has been flat out horrible!! Even our radio guy (Ken Kal) even alluded to this in their pregame before the Flames game last Wed. He flat out said that E needs to be much better in every category...said he is "struggling mightily".

They might go up, but not into our GM position (hopefully). Drapes is no where near qualified (yet), and has really no authority as of now. He needs more experience. IMO...a good GM is one that has a HUGE rolodex of contacts/relationships within the league, and can basically immediately establish communications with every team on certain items (e.g. trades, who's on our trading block, what the other team thinks of certain players we are interested in, etc.). That takes a while to establish. IMO...Stevie likely had an easier path to becoming a GM because...because....he's Steve frickin Yzerman. As Krsmith17 mentions above, which I completely agree, I'd like to see someone outside the organization that has a proven track record. I'd be okay with taking a little bit of risk on maybe a younger, up and coming, likely a stud, front office guy, but only to a certain point.

Easy. It may becoming apparent that Kenny had a great staff/support system around him that contributed to a lot of success as a front office and team. However, to be fair, Kenny has done some great things for this organization. The "loyalty" card is being overplayed a bit....a lot of the "loyalty" was dictated by his boss...Mr. Ilitch. A good number of our core players who have retired or moved on have talked about their personal, close relationship with Mr. and Mrs. Ilitch. So, yes Kenny has done a below average job the past five years or so, but to make a statement that he's always been incompetent is absurd.

1. Steve Ott is hands down most popular player on the Wings 2. Jimmy Howard is traded, and has a lot of "not so nice" things to say about Detroit 3. One of our bench assistance coaches won't be here by March

Totally agree with this. I think since most of us (or some) follow the team so closely we often get bias toward our prospects real comparative NHL caliber talent and real street value. I mean we watch some of these guys when they're in Traverse City at one of our camps and their like 18 years old. We see/hear/read some positive flashes from these guys and the next thing you know...they're the next up -and-coming Wings superstar. The NHL now pulls the top players from around the world and no longer a Canadian/USA majority league...Their are only 690 players that can say at any given time that they are on an NHL team. You may have flashes at Traverse City, you may even play in GR...but the chances are slim that your talented enough to play in the NHL.

I see what you're saying to a degree. Just a slight counter-point on this, more to your referencing the PP. In this day and age of technology, teams have video on opposing teams at their fingertips and even have a full time positions with "Video" in their job title (Wings have two). They even have video on the other teams via their iPads on the bench during games. Changing lines up and giving your team, or PP unit different "looks" at times can be also part strategy. I've heard Joel Quenneville state this a few times in interviews over the past few years. Even back 10 years ago video and opposition analysis wasn't nearly as developed as it is today. So, when the other teams know your tendencies, know where you break down, know how to better open shooting lanes, etc...it makes it much easier to develop a winning strategy as a team. I'll be clear though, if you have a top 5 PP unit, or top 5 line in the league, you're not, or very unlikely to make any changes. Understood..."beat us if you can". But the days of a team jumping on the ice and having a "rough idea" of what the other team is going to throw at them and developing an effective strategy on the "fly" are over.

I'd love for him to score 20ish (+/- 5) with 50 (+/-10) points and not over-impress, and sign him to a longer deal at a lower cost. If he explodes, he's be in a position of power in the negotiations.

He's being very realistic about the situation/problem he created. Wow...what a luxury that must be. I'm going to go tell our CEO that I'm going to be average...maybe above average (we'll see...fingers crossed!) in today's meeting with our major client.... because I got wasted last night and didn't get home until 4 am. I'm sure he'll appreciate me being realistic and calling a spade a spade.

Not necessarily just because of injury would we have to chance to move him. That's why God created teams like Calgary, Toronto, Buffalo, NY Islanders, and Edmonton ....to make horrific deals. Didn't you know that??