Echolalia

There's Waldo

The point I was trying to make was there are a finite amount of ways the schedule could have been made, and teams are going to be screwed over in some regard one way or another.

One team has to have the most back-to-back games. Why not make it the Stanley Cup champions and two other upper-tier teams? At least they can handle it. I think it would be ridiculous to give it to Tampa Bay and the Islanders. Besides, making an 82 game schedule work for 30 teams whos arenas often have other agendas of their own to work isn't an easy task. Especially with every team complaining about how much they have to travel now-a-days.

I don't know if Mickey said this or I heard it somewhere else (this was probably about 8-10 years ago): "Stevie Wonder could've seen that hook!"

It appears signing both isn't completely out of the question http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic.../902100323/1004

Another FSN+ game? This is ridiculous.

Didn't one of the commentators say that he was out because of a hip flexor injury?

I don't think Green has an argument for defensive play, which, last time I checked, is what the Norris is primarily concerned with. Chara is a different story, although I wouldn't be surprised to see either take home the Norris at the end of the year. Voters may want to apply parity to the award shows as well, which means Lidstrom is last in the running in that regard. He is also playing with a Stanley Cup winning team, so many will argue that he has a lot of help, while the likes of Chara and Green last year were playing golf through most of spring. I don't agree with these arguments, but I half expect people to use this type of logic.

Your drinking the wrong stuff badum ching

Who said that Hossa can't earn more than 6M in Detroit? Or is this one of those, "well if he does, we won't be able to sign anyone else" kinda things.

I don't mean to be a stickler and ruin the positive energy of this thread, but I still think the Wings have some work to do. That's not to say that I don't agree that they have improved (especially since that 5 game losing streak), but I didn't like how they eased off the gas against Edmonton in the third. Whether your up by six or down by six, allowing three goals in one period is inexcusable. I also think that for much of the game against the Pens, the Wings seemed a bit sluggish, although the Pens also seemed slow. What I'm most pleased about is how balanced the team's scoring seems to be. We're seeing people like Lebda, Draper, Leino, Filppulla (finally) on the scoreboard, as well as players like Dats, Lids, Zetterberg, etc. Conklin looks very composed in net, also. There were very few uncontrolled rebounds these past couple games, something I was surprised the NBC brass noticed and pointed out.

Before this kid gets a full season to show that he's worth more than a million. I want this kid to get a three to four year deal now while we can pay him a rookie's salary, and that could help offset the Zetterberg contract, and who knows, maybe we'll be able to fit some more big names into our roster in a couple years. But seriously, I feel crazy for wanting to get this kid signed for multiple years, especially after only seeing him play for three games, but he looks so comfortable out there. He looks like Zetterberg or Datsyuk when we first signed him. He's strong on the puck, he played well defensively tonight (I'm thinking of a particular play where he rushed back from the Oiler's zone, caused a turnorver at our blueline, and turned right around with it). He just seems to be doing everything right. What a steal he could turn out to be. By the way, he played 17:35 tonight.

I think Hossa should be the top priority, IMO. He'll cost more, but that's money well spent. Especially because every single rumor or update on Hossa and the Wings indicates he's a team player and is willing to do what it takes to stay in Detroit. Does that mean another pay cut? Who knows? But he really seems to want to stay. It was always close between him and Franzen, but Franzen seems to have become more of an injury liability.

Maybe in terms of the roles that they each played, but I don't think Datsyuk can be compared to anyone who has played the game before him.

A fourth liner's job is to keep the opposition from scoring. The whole point is "don't do anything bad", just keep the other team off the board. According to Kopecky's numbers, career +/- of 0, seasonal of -1, for the most part he's been doing just that. And Kopecky, if I'm not mistaken, has been seeing quite a bit of penalty killing time as of late, something that he didn't start the year off with. But apparently those aren't key situations. Just because Helm "works himself into the play" doesn't excuse the fact that he picks up a - just about every other game he plays. Yeah, he's ambitious, and he has potential, but all of his statistics show he has more work to do. I would rather have a 4th liner who, like you said, "doesn't do anything bad", over a 4th liner who I'll probably have to pay more for who "works himself into the play", yet walks off the ice at the end of the game with a -, and no goals or assists.

The problem with replacing Kopecky with Leino is Leino is better than a 4th liner. Holland's money would be going a lot farther by putting that (hypothetical) .9M cap hit into a solid goalscorer/play maker, potentially capable of anywhere between 30 and 60 points a season. Leino's role on the fourth line wouldn't be to score, and he wouldn't be put with other players who are as capable as him as making offensive plays. Holland would also still have to find someone who can play on the second line, and he won't find another player who will take less than 1 M a season.

Its a give an take thing, for sure. We're looking at who we want to keep out of Sammy, Franzen, Hudler, and Hossa. Obviously they aren't all coming back. Say Holland takes Hossa and Hudler and lets Sammy and Franzen walk. Leino could be looked at at that point to fill in Sammy's void, for a 1M caphit, if that. If we could sign the kid to something like .5, .75, 1, 1.5 for an average hit of less than 1M per year, that would be remarkable, especially for that last year, when we essentially have .5 M off the cap from his salary. I don't know if this is realistic, though.

Helm seems to be having difficulty helping his team maintain a 6 goal lead. He's currently -2 in this game (the only player), which would put his 12 game total at -5. 0 regular season goals. 0 regular season assists. Despite playing on what many would call "the worst fourth line in the league", and playing as what many would call "the worst fourth liner in the league", Kopecky is only a -1 this year. That's better than both Draper and Maltby. He's +0 for his entire career. He is our leading forward in checks, and only behind Stuart out of our entire team. No, he doesn't fight, but that's not every fourth liner's responsibility. Especially when he could very well walk away with an injury, as he isn't even a fighter to begin with, like some seem to believe. I'd say he fills his role quite nicely, and it seems like Babcock and Holland agree. As Eva and I both said previously, Helm definitely has more potential, but as of right now, Kopecky is the better player. Going back to my original statement, therein lies the advantage of signing Kopecky. He won't make a lot of money throughout his career, so we can sign him for cheap as a reliable (yes, reliable) fourth liner who will only get better. Helm will certainly get better. Look at him out there, he's bursting with potential. But that means he's more likely to make a bunch in the future, which would provide the Wings with less space to sign someone like Huder, or Hossa, or Franzen.

This here is a good post.

The 1M was an over exaggeration to play things safe, but "absolute worst case scenario" as you called it of getting .5M on the caphit only further supports my argument. And as for my last comment; I'm not saying I disagree (in fact I said that Helm would be able to demand more money), but the fact that he hasn't scored a single point in eleven regular season games and is a minus player overall isn't really much of a proven argument. At this point I don't think one player can be "proven" better than the other. Its all a matter of opinion. Kopecky averages a point in seven games.

Helm is also going to make much more than Kopecky, and has a greater potential than playing on the fourth line. So if Holland is looking to somehow fit Zetterberg, Hossa, Franzen, Hudler, Sammy or some combination of the three or four of them, it would be wise to sign Kopecky to a tiny contract for a number of years to have a low cap hit so there's more room for Hudler, or Franzen, or whoever. It is very possible that after a year or so, Helm is playing like Cleary and can demand, or expect, at the very least around 3M. The kid has a lot of potential, I don't think anyone will deny that. Its safe to say, however, that with how Kopecky is playing right now, we could sign him for three or four years for a cap hit of about a million. This is quite possibly one of a number of ways Holland is going to lower our cap, so he can focus on higher priority guys. Also: I'm just curious, and this is no way a knock on your logic, but how is Helm a proven better player than Kopecky?

I think this could turn out to be a really good move. Kopecky, despite how much people rag on him, fits his role nicely as a young fourth liner. He's also the cheapest player on this team and possibly the entire league that fits' our mold (despite how many players we have in Grand Rapids who many say are tonnes better than Kopecky, they're all unproven at the nhl level as well will fill roles that will require a greater hit off the cap). I don't see Kopecky making much more than he makes now throughout his career. This could be a very significant indication that Holland is trying to make room for some other bigger salary players.

When this happened last year, we were about 20 points ahead of second place, and without half of our defensive lineup.

But I didn't realize that Babs called Osgood out after the game in Phoenix. I actually can't remember him publicly pointing the finger at anyone since he started in Detroit. It also looks like many of us aren't the only one's thinking about Conklin as no. 1 for the playoffs. Anyway, Puckdaddy is always a good read, so: http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_dadd...?urn=nhl,139205 and as this is just another Osgood thread, feel free to not comment so it drops of the top page quickly. seriously.

Its a sign that he lets of the gas when he has defense in front of him. And why not? They won the cup next year and still have Lids, Rafalski, Kronwall, Stuart, and even Lilja is playing like a top 4 defensman. And if you look at all his weak goals, a lot of them seem to be just him playing slow or lazy, like his head isn't completely in the game. Obviously he is a bit more composed when its the shootout and he's the only one out there. But my official diagnosis is that he's a little too confident in the team playing in front of him (whether consciously or not).