Echolalia

He thinks of how he's fairing in the forum's latest goalie war, and what pseudonym he'll use tonight to spread his fanbase and badmouth Osgood.

1) Get rid of Niedermeyer bros. Maybe trade with LA, cuz they're the defensive team of the future with their stock. 2) Sign Bobby Ryan to a long term relatively low cost contract before his talent is consistent and high enough to demand 5+ million per year. 3) Let Getzlaf do his thing, and give him the C while we're at it.

I can't get over the Austin Maverics, no matter how hard I try its stuck in my head http://www.bushparty.com/htms/hockeylogos.htm edit: makon whoopie.

which is ironic, because their logo looks like my grandma

Ouch. 75 million dollars on the table. This may soon turn into keeping Zetterberg and Hudler vs Hossa and Franzen.

How about instead of that, when people fight they just go back to the old code and not punch to kill, but rather send a message and more importantly keep the fan base entertained. Unfortunately people lose tempers and this kind of thing has become almost impossible to work, but you can tell some fighters have an unnerving rage about them that makes them dangerous, while others are cool, and while they don't pull their punches, they aren't aiming to send a guy to the hospital either. Reason number 18 why I love Downey so much.

Definitely. Five shillings to the man who finds a Macon Whoopee jersey for sale. Ten shillings if its customizable

I'm so glad we have the winged wheel.

The paranoid loser in me wants to think that Zetterberg is intentionally not lined with Datsyuk to lower his numbers, so Holland can barter for less on his contract. But my mind is still on those horrible logos, so I'm not thinking clear yet

You may have seen that I also question whether Fuhr should be in the hall of fame, and think that race had a lot to do with him getting there, but you emphasized the point I was trying to make to Eva, when he was trying to justify Osgood's being in the hall of fame by comparing his stats with Fuhr's when they were both in the nhl (post 1994ish). Fuhr's numbers were bad at that time.

I think that started back in the playoffs when Osgood let in a center ice goal, but I may be wrong. The Wings are the most hated team in the league so when something like that begins, its here to stay. I was also referring to Osgood's style of play vs more flashy goalies such as Luongo, Nabakov, etc, not how Chicago and St. Louis' fans' express their inferiority complex And for Leftwinger: I'm not saying Osgood is bad by any means. He has earned quite a number of awards and trophies. I'm just saying that I don't think he will be inducted into the hall of fame, for a number of reasons I already mentioned.

Good post and for the most part I agree, however there are some differences between Broduer and Osgood which will go against Osgood's favor. In addition to the three cups his team has won, Broduer has won the Vezina and the Jennings four times, and he's looking at breaking the all-time wins and all-time shutout record. Osgood's records are mostly franchise records, and those that he still has to get (although I think its safe to assume he'll retire with them). Broduer already owns just about every franchise record a goalie can get for the Devils, I think something along the lines of 30 records? Not to mention the ridiculous amount of unbelievable saves he has made to preserve his numbers. This guy has tons of highlight reel videos on youtube, compared to very few with Osgood. This also may seem like a redundant comparison, however it demonstrates a valid point that Brodeur is the more noticed goalie in the league, while Osgood flies under the radar with standard, not flashy but good-positioning saves. This may very well affect how people vote on his chances in the HOF. People also don't consider him a franchise player due to the fact that the Wings have had the likes of Hasek and Vernon and Joseph come through, and Osgood has played second tier through those times. Anyway, like I said earlier, it would be awesome if he gets in, but I think he's looking at an outside chance, if any.

I love the general lack of bias this thread has. Awesome list, also. Can't argue with much.

Chelios: B+ Cleary: B Conklin: B+ Datsyuk: A Draper: C- Filppulla: C- Franzen: A- Holmstrom: B Hossa: A Hudler: A Kopecky: B Kronwall: B+ Lebda: B Lidstrom: B+ Lilja: A McCarty: A Maltby: B- Meech: B+? Osgood: C- Rafalski: B+ Sammuelson: A Stuart: B+ Zetterberg: B-

Brodeur I think is one of the greatest goaltenders in history, and the Devils have some of the most well known defense of this era. I try to avoid numbers (except maybe save %) and statistics, because there are so many of them that they can be molded se easily to fit your argument regardless of whether they're even relevant (see: Eva). If you compare Broduer's skill with Osgood's hands down Broduer wins. Same with Lundqvist, Miller, Luongo and a handful of other goalies in the league. They have more solid skill than Osgood has. These guys don't have the cups that Osgood won, or the strong numbers in the win column. But teams win cups, and its significantly easier to win when you face 18-24 shots a night with 16 of them from the outside. Now I'm not saying Osgood is a bad goalie. In fact I think he's quite solid in net. He does what's required of him. But that's it. I can only think of a couple "game-savers" or complete robberies in his entire career where he absolutely did the unthinkable, and its stuff like that that separates the elite goalies from Osgood. Broduer has faced many easy shots in his career, and many easy nights as well, but he often still manages to make the save even on the more difficult opportunities. Osgood will get a couple here or there. He does have awesome numbers, but they're mostly team based, with little overall impact on the league as a whole, and that's why I don' t think he'll be inducted. Maybe I'm wrong. Hopefully I'm wrong. But Osgood has never stood out of the pack for me, despite his numbers, and I'm assuming the HOF committee is of the same mindset.

This would scare me. Honestly. Especially with their hot new goalie and the fact that they're taking a "Holland" approach with Filatov in that they aren't throwing him into the nhl prematurely, but letting him develop. If they get Lecavalier they'll be a superpower in the West.

This is a top-notch idea

I don't think its much of an argument at all

They got it backwards. The system is a product of Lidstrom.

I don't think he's underrated in Detroit, but everywhere else in the league people are focused on Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Hossa, Lidstrom, and Franzen to think about this little guy who keeps managing to get on the scoresheet. Holland absoultely needs to lock this kid up longterm for a relatively low price (ala Zetterberg) before he starts putting in 80+ points a year and can get 6+ million somewhere else. Its also interesting to note that I think last year was supposed to be his rookie year, but due to other stuff he was brought up a year early, something we all know Holland hates to do with youth, although I'm not sure about that. I think i remember Ken Daniels mentioning this some time ago. Another thing I would like to point out is that hes a small guy, and if he can put some mass on those bones, his heavy weight and low center of gravity will make it hard to knock him over in the future. I think this is the difference between Hudler now and a possible franchise player.

By the time Osgood came into the nhl, Grant Fuhr had already played 12 seasons and was well past his prime, especially if you consider his bout with drugs and injuries, particularly a considerably debilitating injury that involved messing up his knee in 1996 (only a couple years after Osgood debuted in the nhl, and while Osgood was on a much better nhl team), therefore its unfair to compare the two while they were in the nhl together. Grant Fuhr also played his prime during the 'scoring era' of hockey, when it was common to have high goals against because teams would regularly score 5-6 goals per game. Wayne Gretzky himself has said Grant Fuhr is one of the greatest goaltenders in history, but if comparing a great goalie when hes injured, past his prime and suffering from drug abuse to a young, solid, goalie playing for a great team is enough for you to believe that Osgood deserves to be in the HOF, thats fine. But I disagree. Oh, and Fuhr has won five cups (only not starting in one due to injury), and played in five All Star games, won a Vezina, and scored second for the Hart Trophy behind only Mario Lemieux (he was ahead of Gretzky in votes that year). Of course all of this was while he played for Edmonton's dynasty, so I even question whether Fuhr should be in the hall of fame, and I personally think that race had a lot with him getting in. Osgood is one of my favorite goalies of all time. I'm just a realist in his chances to get in.

The problem with those numbers is they also reflect the performance of the rest of the team. Throughout Osgood's career, the Wings have boasted some of the best defense the nhl has ever seen. Ever. Offense has also been within the top five every year since the mid 90's, usually within the top two. That's gonna pad the win column pretty generously. That's not taking anything away from Osgood, though, as he has been there when called upon, but I have never considered him to be one the top goaltenders in the league any year that he has played nhl.

Osgood has a lot of credentials and that definitely helps his cause, but its hard for me to put Osgood into the same category as the other HOF goalies.

Well out of McCollum, Larson, and Howard, all with great stats before being signed, and all definitely under Holland's "long term development" list, we're bound to strike gold in one of them.

Tonight's gonna be a blowout. Dallas picked up some momentum since we last saw them, and they need to be put back in their place.