Todd Bertuzzi offered $350,000 last year...

[Salviaman 104]

Bertuzzi's incident was worse than the others. Why, you ask? Because it was premeditated assault. Bertuzzi planned to make Moore pay. That is also why Bertuzzi should have to open his pocketbook. Because his planned assault of Steve Moore resulted in Moore's career being ended, and having to go through significant physical therapy.

He should have to pay all of it in my opinion. It was his choice to punch Moore in the head, and it was his choice to drive his head into the ice which IMO resulted in his neck being broken, not the punch.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Bertuzzi's incident was worse than the others. Why, you ask? Because it was premeditated assault. Bertuzzi planned to make Moore pay. That is also why Bertuzzi should have to open his pocketbook. Because his planned assault of Steve Moore resulted in Moore's career being ended, and having to go through significant physical therapy.

Eva, that's a stretch. All vicious acts on the ice are premeditated to some degree. "Bertuzzi planned to make Moore pay", sheesh, could we get any more dramatic.

I've seen players chase other players all over the ice trying to get them to fight. Sometimes there's no fight, sometimes the aggressor decides to just haul off and get in a lick or two. If Moore's neck doesn't get broken this brawl barely makes NHL2night if that show were still on. It'd just be another guy taking a pop at somebody and a rugby pile forming.

IMO, what Matt Johnson did to Jeff Beukeboom was more heinous than this. Johnson skated up behind an unsuspecting Beukeboom and layed a haymaker on him from behind. Even though he wasn't expecting the punch, Moore knew Bert was there. IMO, the Johnson punch was worse and given some thought, I bet I could think of others worse than this.

I've seen the Bertuzzi scenario a thousand times. The fact that there was a freakish resulting injury doesn't make it the worst "act" ever perpetrated, just the one with the worst consequences.

[Kutcher 0]

I think it's funny how this loser thinks he deserves $15 mil. Honestly the guys lifetime earnings after taxes would have likely been around $10. That saying he actually played for 10 more years, which I doubt just because of his role and general lack of talent. I think if the Bertuzzi camp offers him $3-$5 mil Moore would be lucky.

And he could recover if he works for it, look at Girgs he almost dies and is back playing, Moore isn't paralyzed. all that happened was a concussion and a broken vertibrae (sp). Hardly a career ending injury, I've had a friend end up with those injuries from a car accident and end up playing hockey 8 months later, ( at a junior level). So there's no reason to me why Moore can't get off his ass and either Work to make a team, or get a F-ing job like the rest of us have to do and earn your living and stop trying to be a mooching little *****.

[eva unit zero 271]

Eva, that's a stretch. All vicious acts on the ice are premeditated to some degree. "Bertuzzi planned to make Moore pay", sheesh, could we get any more dramatic.

I've seen players chase other players all over the ice trying to get them to fight. Sometimes there's no fight, sometimes the aggressor decides to just haul off and get in a lick or two. If Moore's neck doesn't get broken this brawl barely makes NHL2night if that show were still on. It'd just be another guy taking a pop at somebody and a rugby pile forming.

IMO, what Matt Johnson did to Jeff Beukeboom was more heinous than this. Johnson skated up behind an unsuspecting Beukeboom and layed a haymaker on him from behind. Even though he wasn't expecting the punch, Moore knew Bert was there. IMO, the Johnson punch was worse and given some thought, I bet I could think of others worse than this.

I've seen the Bertuzzi scenario a thousand times. The fact that there was a freakish resulting injury doesn't make it the worst "act" ever perpetrated, just the one with the worst consequences.

Just FYI, I rank Johnson's hit on Beukeboom as probably the worst act in recent memory. The major difference between Bertuzzi and guys like McSorley or Simon? Moore and Bertuzzi hadn't fought, and Moore did nothing to Bertuzzi. The others were guys who had fought or chipped at each other and it was direct retaliation. Moore laid a clean hit on Naslund, which, due to Naslund's error in reaching for the puck, ended up injuring him. Moore fought Canucks players when they stood up to him in response for this, and at that point normally it would have been done with. But Bertuzzi would have none of that. He refused to settle for anything short of Moore being injured, and that is why he is so culpable in this matter.

[OsGOD 3]

Bertuzzi's incident was worse than the others. Why, you ask? Because it was premeditated assault. Bertuzzi planned to make Moore pay. That is also why Bertuzzi should have to open his pocketbook. Because his planned assault of Steve Moore resulted in Moore's career being ended, and having to go through significant physical therapy.

I do have to ask... is what many people on here are hoping will come about between Downey and Tootoo tonight not premeditated?... God forbid someone of them would get seriously hurt. Usually fights are all premeditated and involve punches whether suspected or unsepect to the head region... just sometimes the unthinkable result happens. Apart from sociopathic assults... which aren't premeditated? Sure Berts was premedittated same with every time Mr. Lemieux would come to town and people would rag on him and attempt to break his head.... You can't tell me McCarty didn't want to end Lemiuexs career... if he didn't he wouldn't have continued to punch when Mr. Lemieux demostrated he had no intention to fight.

[eva unit zero 271]

I do have to ask... is what many people on here are hoping will come about between Downey and Tootoo tonight not premeditated?... God forbid someone of them would get seriously hurt. Usually fights are all premeditated and involve punches whether suspected or unsepect to the head region... just sometimes the unthinkable result happens. Apart from sociopathic assults... which aren't premeditated? Sure Berts was premedittated same with every time Mr. Lemieux would come to town and people would rag on him and attempt to break his head.... You can't tell me McCarty didn't want to end Lemiuexs career... if he didn't he wouldn't have continued to punch when Mr. Lemieux demostrated he had no intention to fight.

Has Downey come out and said 'I'm going to get Tootoo' or otherwise indicated he is planning a physical confrontation? Another difference; McCarty on Lemieux was a far fairer fight, and it was in retaliation for a significant cheapie by Lemieux. Moore did not cheap shot any Canucks player, and he had already fought Canucks players as 'retribution' for his clean hit on Naslund. McCarty went at Lemieux when there was already a brawl taking place. Bertuzzi attacked Moore as Moore was trying to stay with the play. When Tie Domi came out and said he was going to fight Bob Probert in 94, he was suspended by the league for a few games after he followed through, which led to his being traded to Winnipeg. Historically, something that is planned well in advance has earned suspensions greater than the act would normally call for.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Just FYI, I rank Johnson's hit on Beukeboom as probably the worst act in recent memory. The major difference between Bertuzzi and guys like McSorley or Simon? Moore and Bertuzzi hadn't fought, and Moore did nothing to Bertuzzi. The others were guys who had fought or chipped at each other and it was direct retaliation. Moore laid a clean hit on Naslund, which, due to Naslund's error in reaching for the puck, ended up injuring him. Moore fought Canucks players when they stood up to him in response for this, and at that point normally it would have been done with. But Bertuzzi would have none of that. He refused to settle for anything short of Moore being injured, and that is why he is so culpable in this matter.

I may have the sequence of events wrong with my next example but I remember points in the rivalry where Shanahan, McCarty and Bob Rouse all wanted a piece of Claude Lemieux, with Mac eventually getting a good piece as we all know. In that instance, the Wings did not let the issue slide until Lemieux was bloodied, injured and had to leave the ice.

My point is, if you have a bullseye on your back, you don't get to decide when to say "no mas". That's just my old school way of thinking because that's what I truly believe.

[Guest jaytan]

Its not like Bert was punching Paris Hilton.

That might be worth $15 mil.

He should have to pay all of it in my opinion. It was his choice to punch Moore in the head, and it was his choice to drive his head into the ice which IMO resulted in his neck being broken, not the punch.

If Moore's lawyer wants to get that scrub all that cash, why not try to shake down the NHL? After all, Bert would have a lot more money in his pocket if the league hadn't come down so hard on him.

[union drone 0]

As I've said before, if a guy gets a broken neck on a play and the two potential causes are:

a) being suckerpunched from behind at the back of the head from a 6'3" 245 pound hockey player

b) having 3 guys pile on your body

I'm gonna go with a).

Huge guys pile on each other all the time in the NFL, yet rarely is there a broken neck. Not to mention hockey players piling on each other when they celebrate winning the Cup. Again, no broken necks.

I can understand being a fan of Bertuzzi in spite of the Moore incident, but it was the punch.

It was the punch.

It was the punch.

Bertuzzi breaking Moore's neck with a suckerpunch

Personally, I don't think that it was the punch or the dog-pile that broke Moore's neck...I think that it was Bertuzzi driving Moore's head into the ice.

[BlueMonk 102]

I'd pay to watch Bertuzzi finish him off.

[Opie 308]

I may have the sequence of events wrong with my next example but I remember points in the rivalry where Shanahan, McCarty and Bob Rouse all wanted a piece of Claude Lemieux, with Mac eventually getting a good piece as we all know. In that instance, the Wings did not let the issue slide until Lemieux was bloodied, injured and had to leave the ice.

My point is, if you have a bullseye on your back, you don't get to decide when to say "no mas". That's just my old school way of thinking because that's what I truly believe.

Funny you bring this up, just last night I was reading Blood Feud and got to this point. If you remember Lemieux was injured the first 2 games of season against the wings, abdominal strain. The third game Draper and Lemieux squared off but nothing came of it. That was when the media really started to get on Detroit about being owned by Col Especially Woody Paige.

The 4th game was the brawl, Larinov (of all people) and Forsberg started a fight, then everyone chipped in. Foote and Devorski were holding back McCarty until Shanny grabbed Foote away from Mac and the ref let go of him just enough for mac to spin away. He faced Lemieux, looked him in the eye and then cold cocked him. That sent Lemieux into Turtle mode.

Mac decided he would get as much of him as he could.

Another funny point is in the book Devorski talks about how after the fight he should have thrown Mac from the game, he didn't and Mac scored the OT winner.

Also Mac wasn't beating him to inure him (as in end his career or make him miss games) he was hitting him to deliver a point, the book even mentions that Lemieux only needed 10-15 stitches.

Bertuzzi attacked a man skating down the ice who didn't want to fight him after fighting multiple players already. Bertuzzi hit him from behind with intent to injure him (make him miss games) and then was going to follow him to the ice to proceed to beat him more (no pun intended).

Bertuzzi's actions were not as bad as Simon, McSorley and other stick wielding maniacs (yes Jesse Boulerice I am looking at you) but what he caused was worse. And in the end that is always what weighs heavily in the courts. Drunk driving penalties are a lot stiffer and harsher if you injure another as opposed to being caught at a road block.

[wingslogo19 281]

He should have to pay all of it in my opinion. It was his choice to punch Moore in the head, and it was his choice to drive his head into the ice which IMO resulted in his neck being broken, not the punch.

So the other players who jumped Bert after it happend, and with all there weight and him slidding on the ice didn't have any effect?

[T.Low 1,011]

So the other players who jumped Bert after it happend, and with all there weight and him slidding on the ice didn't have any effect?

No, it didn't really have an effect on the neck area. You'll notice in the video the only time there is an enormous amount of pressure on the neck area is when Moore 's head intially hits the ice from Bertuzzi's excessive drive. The rest of the pile on could have knocked the wind out of him or brusied kidney's, ribs, or something but the pressure points of the pile on were not conducive to a neck injury. Not my fault, don't get mad at me, just simple observation.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Funny you bring this up, just last night I was reading Blood Feud and got to this point. If you remember Lemieux was injured the first 2 games of season against the wings, abdominal strain. The third game Draper and Lemieux squared off but nothing came of it. That was when the media really started to get on Detroit about being owned by Col Especially Woody Paige.

The 4th game was the brawl, Larinov (of all people) and Forsberg started a fight, then everyone chipped in. Foote and Devorski were holding back McCarty until Shanny grabbed Foote away from Mac and the ref let go of him just enough for mac to spin away. He faced Lemieux, looked him in the eye and then cold cocked him. That sent Lemieux into Turtle mode.

Mac decided he would get as much of him as he could.

Another funny point is in the book Devorski talks about how after the fight he should have thrown Mac from the game, he didn't and Mac scored the OT winner.

Also Mac wasn't beating him to inure him (as in end his career or make him miss games) he was hitting him to deliver a point, the book even mentions that Lemieux only needed 10-15 stitches.

Bertuzzi attacked a man skating down the ice who didn't want to fight him after fighting multiple players already. Bertuzzi hit him from behind with intent to injure him (make him miss games) and then was going to follow him to the ice to proceed to beat him more (no pun intended).

Bertuzzi's actions were not as bad as Simon, McSorley and other stick wielding maniacs (yes Jesse Boulerice I am looking at you) but what he caused was worse. And in the end that is always what weighs heavily in the courts. Drunk driving penalties are a lot stiffer and harsher if you injure another as opposed to being caught at a road block.

Opie, glad you read the book, its a fun read. I do however have to disagree with you on some points.

1. You say Bertuzzi attacked a man skating down the ice who didn't want to fight. Are you implying there was something different with the McCarty situation? Sure looked to me like Lemieux wasn't expecting to get attacked right there. I see no difference whatsoever as neither player knew they were getting punched. The only SLIGHT difference is the angle of attack.

2. I find it strange you would be able to comment definitively on what Bertuzzi's intentions were. As far as my experience goes he was a hockey player intending to go off on another hockey player. Happens all the time. I don't buy that he was intending to make him miss games. Seriously, how does one do that? You can try to take somebody out I suppose but you have no clue what's going to happen. I think people are putting too much weight on what was nothing more than one player cheapshotting another. I don't read anymore into it than that.

3. Moore did not fight mulitple players. He fought Matt Cooke. It was his only NHL fight. So no, he did not fight multiple players prior to that incident.

4. I don't believe Bert was following him to the ice anymore than Moore was Bertuzzi's crutch. When Moore started going down, Bertuzzi went down on top of him. Whether he was trying to drive his head through the ice is another point of contention. I'm just saying laws of gravity here. They were falling. Bert was on his back so of course he's going to "follow him to the ice". It wasn't like Moore was 20 feet away, sprawled out on the ice and Bert went after him. You want to see somebody "go down to the ice" to go after a guy. Check this clip out:

(the going down to the ice part to beat on somebody comes at the end of the clip)

As for the rest of your comments, I agree. Results play a big part in how harsh your sentence is. I've said from day one that this was not even close to one of the most vicious acts i've ever seen on the ice, it just had the most horrific consequences. I don't buy all the conspiracy theory stuff about his intent. He wanted to bust him up some just like Mac wanted to bust up Lemieux. People who take it further than that are just reaching IMO.

[eva unit zero 271]

So the other players who jumped Bert after it happend, and with all there weight and him slidding on the ice didn't have any effect?

I normally try to stay away from statements like this...but:

Anyone who believes the pile on is the sole or primary cause of Moore's neck injury, and there's no chance it could be any other way, is being a ******* MORON. Anyone with a simple understanding of physics and/or human anatomy can tell you from looking at the video that Moore's neck was almost certain broken before any players other than Bertuzzi and Moore were involved. The pile on probably didn't help, but Bertuzzi is responsible EITHER WAY.

[Opie 308]

Opie, glad you read the book, its a fun read. I do however have to disagree with you on some points.

1. You say Bertuzzi attacked a man skating down the ice who didn't want to fight. Are you implying there was something different with the McCarty situation? Sure looked to me like Lemieux wasn't expecting to get attacked right there. I see no difference whatsoever as neither player knew they were getting punched. The only SLIGHT difference is the angle of attack.

2. I find it strange you would be able to comment definitively on what Bertuzzi's intentions were. As far as my experience goes he was a hockey player intending to go off on another hockey player. Happens all the time. I don't buy that he was intending to make him miss games. Seriously, how does one do that? You can try to take somebody out I suppose but you have no clue what's going to happen. I think people are putting too much weight on what was nothing more than one player cheapshotting another. I don't read anymore into it than that.

3. Moore did not fight mulitple players. He fought Matt Cooke. It was his only NHL fight. So no, he did not fight multiple players prior to that incident.

4. I don't believe Bert was following him to the ice anymore than Moore was Bertuzzi's crutch. When Moore started going down, Bertuzzi went down on top of him. Whether he was trying to drive his head through the ice is another point of contention. I'm just saying laws of gravity here. They were falling. Bert was on his back so of course he's going to "follow him to the ice". It wasn't like Moore was 20 feet away, sprawled out on the ice and Bert went after him. You want to see somebody "go down to the ice" to go after a guy. Check this clip out:

(the going down to the ice part to beat on somebody comes at the end of the clip)

As for the rest of your comments, I agree. Results play a big part in how harsh your sentence is. I've said from day one that this was not even close to one of the most vicious acts i've ever seen on the ice, it just had the most horrific consequences. I don't buy all the conspiracy theory stuff about his intent. He wanted to bust him up some just like Mac wanted to bust up Lemieux. People who take it further than that are just reaching IMO.

GS&T

There is definitely something different in the way Mac did it and Bert did, Mac looked Lemieux in the eye. That is a massive difference. Also when Mac fought Turtle he hit him once with a glove on and then dropped them, Bert continued to hit Moore with gloves on.

Bert was obvious, if his intentions were not to make him miss games and severely injure him than why smack him in the face from behind and ride him to the ground. Why not catch up to him, grab him and turn him around? Like happens so many times in the NHL.

I was wrong on how many times he fought, he only fought once that game, so because Bert thought that wasn't enough he can ambush a guy from behind? No I think not.

Moore would not have been in Bert's crotch if Bert faced off with him instead of jumping him from behind, if you watch the video closely as Moore is heading to the ice Bert delivers a nice forearm to the back of his head as well.

Also those of you who think the pile on broke his neck LOOK CLOSELY AT THE VIDEO as Eva said his neck was only in a position to be broken was when Bert fell on him (with a forearm shiver), after that his head bounced of the ice and then he was face down as the pile happened, his neck was broken BY BERTUZZI!!!!!!!!

Bert is responsible and should be paying for it with his wallet and career. If you end some one's career with that kind of attack yours should be ended as well!!!!

Boulerice should be gone he ended a career with a stick swing, McSorley should have been out as long as Brashaer was, Simon same thing, same with Randy Jones.

I am also the guy who roots for the Pats and thinks Harrison should never play again because he used Roids.

But hey that is just me!!

[wingslogo19 281]

I normally try to stay away from statements like this...but:

Anyone who believes the pile on is the sole or primary cause of Moore's neck injury, and there's no chance it could be any other way, is being a ******* MORON. Anyone with a simple understanding of physics and/or human anatomy can tell you from looking at the video that Moore's neck was almost certain broken before any players other than Bertuzzi and Moore were involved. The pile on probably didn't help, but Bertuzzi is responsible EITHER WAY.

I never said anything about not being his fault.. He made a bad mistake yes.. And yes he should pay for what he did.. Im just still trying to figure out how the neck gets broken from that punch

[Opie 308]

I never said anything about not being his fault.. He made a bad mistake yes.. And yes he should pay for what he did.. Im just still trying to figure out how the neck gets broken from that punch

Try reading a little closer, both Eva and I said his neck broke WHEN HE HIT THE ICE WITH A 245 POUND MAN ON HIS BACK DRIVING A FOREARM INTO THE BACK OF HIS HEAD.

The punch knocked him out, he fell limply to the ground with his head in a downward position, as if his chin was touching his chest, the top of his head hit the ice first and then a grown man landed on top of him. His head then bounced off of the ice, and returned to normal position as the pig pile ensued!

Sorry for speaking for you Eva.

Edited November 8, 2007 by Opie

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

GS&T

There is definitely something different in the way Mac did it and Bert did, Mac looked Lemieux in the eye. That is a massive difference. Also when Mac fought Turtle he hit him once with a glove on and then dropped them, Bert continued to hit Moore with gloves on.

Bert was obvious, if his intentions were not to make him miss games and severely injure him than why smack him in the face from behind and ride him to the ground. Why not catch up to him, grab him and turn him around? Like happens so many times in the NHL.

I was wrong on how many times he fought, he only fought once that game, so because Bert thought that wasn't enough he can ambush a guy from behind? No I think not.

Moore would not have been in Bert's crotch if Bert faced off with him instead of jumping him from behind, if you watch the video closely as Moore is heading to the ice Bert delivers a nice forearm to the back of his head as well.

Also those of you who think the pile on broke his neck LOOK CLOSELY AT THE VIDEO as Eva said his neck was only in a position to be broken was when Bert fell on him (with a forearm shiver), after that his head bounced of the ice and then he was face down as the pile happened, his neck was broken BY BERTUZZI!!!!!!!!

Bert is responsible and should be paying for it with his wallet and career. If you end some one's career with that kind of attack yours should be ended as well!!!!

Boulerice should be gone he ended a career with a stick swing, McSorley should have been out as long as Brashaer was, Simon same thing, same with Randy Jones.

I am also the guy who roots for the Pats and thinks Harrison should never play again because he used Roids.

But hey that is just me!!

So if I look you in the face right before I sucker punch you that makes a difference? Surely you jest. What good is it if I look you in the face if you aren't expecting to get punched. Either situation, neither guy had a chance to block or defend himself which makes the angle of attack of no consequence.

As for the glove on comment? I don't understand what you're implying. That hitting with a glove on is worse than hitting bare fisted? You ever been in a hockey fight? I've been in tons of them and i'll take leather to the chops any day over a bareknuckle punch. I would think Bertuzzie did Moore a favor by keeping his gloves on. Again, not sure where you are going with those thoughts.

I don't disagree with anybody that the injury is Bert's fault and that it was probably caused by the initial impact of his head on the ice. My experience with this and in martial arts (I've trained for about 2/3rds of my life in Tae Kwon Do, Tang Soo Do, etc...) would lead me to believe the punch did not cause the blow rather it was the ground impact that did.

As for losing your career forever. I would limit that to something like deliberately stomping on somebody's throat with your skate. Should we ban Danny Heatlley for driving like a maniac and going like 3x the speed limit and killing Dan Snyder? He took his career away from him with reckless, ILLEGAL, activity.

People need to grow thicker skins already. Hockey players cheap shot and punch each other thousands of times a year in leagues all across the globe. Anybody who has ever been in a street fight will tell you there's a fine line between busting somebody's lip and knocking them into a coma.

What happened to more was a freak accident. The fact that its only happened once is proof that it was a freak occurence. He paid a hefty price already. His reputation is tarnished for all eternity and he's still going to have to pay eventually through the civil suit.

In truth, I can't stand the holier than thou stance people take on this issue. God forbid somebody get under your skin and you give em a pop and something bad happens. Should that day come i'm betting you won't be taking it in the rear with a smile on your face. On the contrary you'd be arguing, pleading, doing and saying everything to prove that what happened was partially your fault and alot to do with bad luck and just freak happenstance. Furthermore, should that happen to you and you were to leave somebody in a coma or unable to work for the rest of their lives, were you not in prison yourself forever, I doubt you'd go along with somebody telling you you can't work the rest of your life as punishment.

[Opie 308]

GS&T

I think some where along the line we got on different pages, we actually agree on a lot of things you just wwrote however in my explanation of why I thought Bert was to blame, you and I got into a discussion about the finite details of the situation.

I am not blaming Bert for wanting to go after Moore, the way he did it is where my problem lies. From behind is bush league and cheap.

I am not disagreeing with you about anything Bert has done after the incident, he should be fighting and his lawyer is doing his job.

My comments were geared towards those who were saying that the pig pile broke his neck. That Bert wasn't at fault.

Also, Lemieux knew mac was coming after him, it was in the papers, Mac squared off with him and did not sucker punch him. Lemieux knew what was coming because if the roles were reversed he would have done the same, only I bet Turtle would have done it from behind.

My point about the glove and I should have made it clearer but work got in the way for a minute, was that he never took it as a fight it was a beating, he was just going at him and not thinking. (IMO)

No one is saying Bert can't work the rest of his life, being a pro athlete is a privilege not a right, he could still do ads, marketing, become a pro bass fisherman, whatever else he wanted, but he took away someone's right to do what he loves and the same should be done to Bert, IMO.

As for Heatley his actions where not acted out on the ice, nor was it illegal, therefore in my mind the league has no grounds to punish Heatley at all.

Your fine line between a fighter getting beat up and put in a coma is dis proven by the fact that how many fighters have been put in a coma in MMA. BTW fast becoming my favorite sport to watch.

The fines or payments or whether or not Bert has paid the piper is an opinion and just like Bert and Moore, they disagreed on whether or not Moore paid the price, you and I have a difference of opinions.

I fine what Bert did less severe than Boulerice (in juniors) Mcsorely, or Simon but not by a hell of a lot. But he did use his hands not a weapon.

Yes I agree it is a horrible set of circumstances, but he put himself in that spot.

[wingslogo19 281]

Try reading a little closer, both Eva and I said his neck broke WHEN HE HIT THE ICE WITH A 245 POUND MAN ON HIS BACK DRIVING A FOREARM INTO THE BACK OF HIS HEAD.The punch knocked him out, he fell limply to the ground with his head in a downward position, as if his chin was touching his chest, the top of his head hit the ice first and then a grown man landed on top of him. His head then bounced off of the ice, and returned to normal position as the pig pile ensued!

Sorry for speaking for you Eva.

Sorry I was being sarcastic at the end of my sentence there.. But thank you for pointing that out, as that's what i've said all along. Maybe not in this thread

[Kutcher 0]

As for Heatley his actions where not acted out on the ice, nor was it illegal, therefore in my mind the league has no grounds to punish Heatley at all.

So careless driving isn't illegal? Speeding isn't illegal? Vehicular Manslaughter is not illegal? Man I want to live in your world.

[Opie 308]

My bad wingslogo19, I thought you were serious as some people on here have been!

BTW GS&T

I could really give a crap about what happens to Bert in the suit and what he pays out, just stating an opinion.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

My bad wingslogo19, I thought you were serious as some people on here have been!

BTW GS&T

I could really give a crap about what happens to Bert in the suit and what he pays out, just stating an opinion.

It's all good. I just think you need to rewatch those old Wings clips. For you to say Mac squared up with Lemieux makes me think you're talking about 2 DIFFERENT INSTANCES. When Mac first got turtle, Lemieux had no idea he was about to get fed his lunch. The pileup started by the blueline with Forsberg, Igor, Vladdy, Kamensky, etc.... Shanny and Foote were off to the side and Mac was being held by the linesman. Lemieux was nowhere near the action and was actually skating to the bench when Mac broke free, twirled around, took a couple strides and laid a haymaker on Lemieux, who's arms were down by his waist, proving that he had no idea he was about to get reamed. If you knew you were going to get punched would you put your arms up to defend yourself or would you keep them at your sides and eat one in the mush?

The squaring up fight took place at a later game when they agreed to drop them on the faceoff. So again I say, I think you've got your fights mixed up.

PS: As for my example of you hurting somebody in a street fight. Experience will tell you that freaky s*** happens. I was once in a bar fight where I hit a guy and he went down and 3 other guys proceeded to beat the tar out of me until people jumped in to break it up. Luckily everyone escaped relatively unscathed. I did end up with a bloody nose and a cut on the back of my head though...ouch. However, I also know a guy who got into a drunken bar fight last year. They went outside and the guy I know threw one, drunken, off balance punch, the guy went down and struck his head on a parked car and was in a coma for nearly 2 weeks. The guy I know went to jail. My point is that not all punches are created equal and really bad s*** happens sometimes. I would argue that when Claude Lemieux reared back and slugged Slava Kozlov, that if you were to measure the force delivered by that punch against the Bertuzzi punch, it's be higher. Kozlov got cut and that was it. Moore, and i'll never figure it out, for some reason had the weakest chin i've ever seen and that shot just happened to hit him in the right spot to knock him out. Lots of guys have been punched like that and not KO'd. If we want to punish people properly and avoid that stuff then anybody who punches somebody like that should be banned from the game. You shouldn't be banned just because of injury you inflicted. That's the ass backwards way of punishing people. I'm rambling here but I hope you get what i'm saying.

Edited November 8, 2007 by GordieSid&Ted

[wingslogo19 281]

My bad wingslogo19, I thought you were serious as some people on here have been!

BTW GS&T

I could really give a crap about what happens to Bert in the suit and what he pays out, just stating an opinion.

Opie, its alright I probably should of said I was being sarcastic to begin with in my reply..