Russian One?

[eva unit zero 271]

Weak Dollar.

/thanks GOP

Yeah, because the GOP went out and said 'we're all big business owners, let's do what we can to ensure that the dollar's value diminishes when compared to other forms of currency. That would cost us all significant amounts of money and assets...who's with me!!'

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

Actually, many of them are Russian by heritage. Their first language is Russian, their parents are both or one Russian, their passports say "nationality: Russian, citizenship: Russian".

Admit it, you read their birthplaces on nhl.com and went with those without further thought, when you claimed that those players were not Russian. When in actual fact and by any reasonable criteria they are. So quit trying to back up your initial erroneous statement by making further claims that don't hold water.

Normally, I would just let it go, but there are few enough Russians left in the NHL for me to give up even more of them.

"Well, if you want to define players' nationality by the country they were born in, then there are NO Russians...."

Your exact words. You contradict yourself. So which is it? Are there no Russians, or is every player in the NHL born in the USSR a Russian? If the latter is the case, I'd be willing to bet that there is more than 30 NHLers who would be Russian.

Have you actually seen these passports you speak of? Didn't think so. The territory these guys were born in has never been Russia. Why is that so difficult for you to swallow?

Since when does language one speak determines nationality? What then is Lidstrom? He speaks both Swedish and English? Hell, maybe you can help me. I speak German, broken Spanish, English, and a bit of pig Latin, what nationality am I?

It is you sir who is making erroneous claims that don't hold water.

[Guest jaytan]

You guys are making yourselves look silly by going overboard to defend the Russians. I never said we shouldn't have any, just that more than a couple of them on any roster is deadly.

And the reason Canada only won one Olympic medal in that time period you threw out was because the Soviets were cheating. The US and Canada were sending amateur athletes to the games and the Soviets were sending out their best players. Also, that's all the European hockey player tends to care about while over here in North America, we care much more about the Stanley Cup.

These are all facts, people.

[sibiriak 84]

"Well, if you want to define players' nationality by the country they were born in, then there are NO Russians...."

Your exact words. You contradict yourself. So which is it? Are there no Russians, or is every player in the NHL born in the USSR a Russian? If the latter is the case, I'd be willing to bet that there is more than 30 NHLers who would be Russian.

Have you actually seen these passports you speak of? Didn't think so. The territory these guys were born in has never been Russia. Why is that so difficult for you to swallow?

Since when does language one speak determines nationality? What then is Lidstrom? He speaks both Swedish and English? Hell, maybe you can help me. I speak German, broken Spanish, English, and a bit of pig Latin, what nationality am I?

It is you sir who is making erroneous claims that don't hold water.

You gotta do better then this

>> "Well, if you want to define players' nationality by the country they were born in, then there are NO Russians...."

Your exact words. You contradict yourself. So which is it? Are there no Russians, or is every player in the NHL born in the USSR a Russian? If the latter is the case, I'd be willing to bet that there is more than 30 NHLers who would be Russian.<<

Actually, I'm contradicting your idea that the place of birth makes one a certain nationality. My point all along was that birthplace usually determines citizenship, but NOT nationality/ethnicity.

>>Have you actually seen these passports you speak of? Didn't think so.<<

The passports of national team members ARE checked at all IIHF tourneys. If you remember in 1998 Ulf Samuelsson was kicked off the Swedish Olympic team in the middle of the tournament after it was discovered that he had an American passport, and neither US, nor Sweden allow dual citizenship.

Nabokov has received Russian passport many years ago as a replacement for an old Soviet one. He never held a Kazakh passport. That case was widely publisized in Russia.

Zherdev was 13 when he moved to Moscow from his hometown of Kiev. He received Russian passport when he came of age. I know this first hand.

I'm not familiar with Vishnevski situation, but since he was able to play for Russia recently, he must be Russian citizen at least. His nationality I don't know for sure. But he played his junior hockey and began his pro carreer in Russia.

Zhitnik played for Russia before, so he must be a Russian citizen. He is an ethnic Ukranian. But his hockey nationality (defined what countryhe is eligible to play for in the Olympics and World Championships) is Russian, as it is for the other three players you singled out.

>> The territory these guys were born in has never been Russia. Why is that so difficult for you to swallow?<<

That would be because it is an incorrect statement.

You must be more careful making historical claims you seem to know little about. Nabokov was born in Ust-Kamenogorsk. This territory was actuaslly part of the Russian empire and later of the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic as one of the republics of the USSR. When the territory of Soviet Turkestan was broken up into what now are Kazakhstan, Kirghizstan, Uzbekistan, Tadjikistan, and Turkmenistan in the late 1920s, the borders between Russia and new Kazakhstan were redrawn. Ust-Kamenogorsk became a part of Kazakhstan as one of the results. It didn't matter then because the borders were administrative only. Now, that all the former republics are souvereign states, those arbitrary borders become real international dividing lines. And the 90% Russian town of Ust-Kamenogorsk has found itself a part of independent Kazakhstan. Did that suddenly make all its Russian inhabitants Kazakhs?

Ukraine in its current borders is the product of a similar Soviet arbitrary redrawinhg of the borders. The territory (however loosely defined) of the XVII century Ukraine that joined the Russian empire was very different from the territory of the current independent Ukraine. Very significant territories were added to it in the course of Russian history in XVIII-XX centuries. The last major territorial transfer from Russia to Ukraine took place as recently as 1954. As a result of such arbitrary drawing of borders among other things, the ethnic composition of all post-Soviet states is very varied. In particular there are large Russian and Russian-speaking minority communities in all of them.

Example: Vitaly Vishnevsky was born in Kharkov, Ukraine. Kharkov is a majority Russian-speaking city. Vishnevsky started his hockey career in Yaroslavl, Russia. He holds Russian citizenship and plays for the Russian national team.

My uncle Vassily was born in Siberia (on the Russian side of the border not too far from Ust-Kamenogorsk in a matter of fact.) He doesn't speak Ukranian. He met his wife in the Far East. They moved to Kharkov in 1970s, and now he and his whole family hold the Ukranian citizenship. So, do you still think that it is such an easy matter to tell who is Russian, who is Ukranian, and who is Kazakh?

IMO, the only definition appropriate on this forum is the hockey nationality, i.e.which national team the player is eligible to play for. And by that definition all four of the players you picked are Russian.

>>Since when does language one speak determines nationality? What then is Lidstrom? He speaks both Swedish and English? Hell, maybe you can help me. I speak German, broken Spanish, English, and a bit of pig Latin, what nationality am I?<<

I said that his first language was Russian. His mother tongue. That is a major part in determining one's nationality.

Doesn't matter how many languages you speak, you only have one mother tongue.

In your view, what does determine one's nationality? Because I think we may have very different definitions of that word.

[RedWings Gone Wild 6]

Yeah, because the GOP went out and said 'we're all big business owners, let's do what we can to ensure that the dollar's value diminishes when compared to other forms of currency. That would cost us all significant amounts of money and assets...who's with me!!'

What do they care? Most of their assets aren't in this country anyway (been to Dubai lately?.. Haliburton has). Anywho, no politics! This is hockey damnit!

[RedWings Gone Wild 6]

And the reason Canada only won one Olympic medal in that time period you threw out was because the Soviets were cheating. The US and Canada were sending amateur athletes to the games and the Soviets were sending out their best players.

Which is why the Russian's were still beating NHL all-star teams, and star studded Canadian rosters in World Cups and World Championships... Ironic that you should mention cheating, considering Canada's victory against the Russians in the 1972 summit series. To quote Canada's assistant coach John Ferguson: " I called Clarke over to the bench, looked over at Kharlamov and said, 'I think he needs a tap on the ankle.'" Also, uh, last olympics team canada was nothing but pros.. and they finished in 7th place.. the US in 8th... All 6 teams ahead of them were European, and Russia got a medal. Riiiiight.

[Guest jaytan]

Because it was in the middle of an NHL season! Why in the world would an NHL player who cared about the Stanley Cup risk his health for some silly International tournament? Also, the International rules are radically different from real hockey rules and more suited to accomodate European playing styles. On top of that, it was on their home ice.

[Doggy 130]

You gotta do better then this

>> "Well, if you want to define players' nationality by the country they were born in, then there are NO Russians...."

Your exact words. You contradict yourself. So which is it? Are there no Russians, or is every player in the NHL born in the USSR a Russian? If the latter is the case, I'd be willing to bet that there is more than 30 NHLers who would be Russian.<<

Actually, I'm contradicting your idea that the place of birth makes one a certain nationality. My point all along was that birthplace usually determines citizenship, but NOT nationality/ethnicity.

>>Have you actually seen these passports you speak of? Didn't think so.<<

The passports of national team members ARE checked at all IIHF tourneys. If you remember in 1998 Ulf Samuelsson was kicked off the Swedish Olympic team in the middle of the tournament after it was discovered that he had an American passport, and neither US, nor Sweden allow dual citizenship.

Nabokov has received Russian passport many years ago as a replacement for an old Soviet one. He never held a Kazakh passport. That case was widely publisized in Russia.

Zherdev was 13 when he moved to Moscow from his hometown of Kiev. He received Russian passport when he came of age. I know this first hand.

I'm not familiar with Vishnevski situation, but since he was able to play for Russia recently, he must be Russian citizen at least. His nationality I don't know for sure. But he played his junior hockey and began his pro carreer in Russia.

Zhitnik played for Russia before, so he must be a Russian citizen. He is an ethnic Ukranian. But his hockey nationality (defined what countryhe is eligible to play for in the Olympics and World Championships) is Russian, as it is for the other three players you singled out.

>> The territory these guys were born in has never been Russia. Why is that so difficult for you to swallow?<<

That would be because it is an incorrect statement.

You must be more careful making historical claims you seem to know little about. Nabokov was born in Ust-Kamenogorsk. This territory was actuaslly part of the Russian empire and later of the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic as one of the republics of the USSR. When the territory of Soviet Turkestan was broken up into what now are Kazakhstan, Kirghizstan, Uzbekistan, Tadjikistan, and Turkmenistan in the late 1920s, the borders between Russia and new Kazakhstan were redrawn. Ust-Kamenogorsk became a part of Kazakhstan as one of the results. It didn't matter then because the borders were administrative only. Now, that all the former republics are souvereign states, those arbitrary borders become real international dividing lines. And the 90% Russian town of Ust-Kamenogorsk has found itself a part of independent Kazakhstan. Did that suddenly make all its Russian inhabitants Kazakhs?

Ukraine in its current borders is the product of a similar Soviet arbitrary redrawinhg of the borders. The territory (however loosely defined) of the XVII century Ukraine that joined the Russian empire was very different from the territory of the current independent Ukraine. Very significant territories were added to it in the course of Russian history in XVIII-XX centuries. The last major territorial transfer from Russia to Ukraine took place as recently as 1954. As a result of such arbitrary drawing of borders among other things, the ethnic composition of all post-Soviet states is very varied. In particular there are large Russian and Russian-speaking minority communities in all of them.

Example: Vitaly Vishnevsky was born in Kharkov, Ukraine. Kharkov is a majority Russian-speaking city. Vishnevsky started his hockey career in Yaroslavl, Russia. He holds Russian citizenship and plays for the Russian national team.

My uncle Vassily was born in Siberia (on the Russian side of the border not too far from Ust-Kamenogorsk in a matter of fact.) He doesn't speak Ukranian. He met his wife in the Far East. They moved to Kharkov in 1970s, and now he and his whole family hold the Ukranian citizenship. So, do you still think that it is such an easy matter to tell who is Russian, who is Ukranian, and who is Kazakh?

IMO, the only definition appropriate on this forum is the hockey nationality, i.e.which national team the player is eligible to play for. And by that definition all four of the players you picked are Russian.

>>Since when does language one speak determines nationality? What then is Lidstrom? He speaks both Swedish and English? Hell, maybe you can help me. I speak German, broken Spanish, English, and a bit of pig Latin, what nationality am I?<<

I said that his first language was Russian. His mother tongue. That is a major part in determining one's nationality.

Doesn't matter how many languages you speak, you only have one mother tongue.

In your view, what does determine one's nationality? Because I think we may have very different definitions of that word.

Lol. If this thread were last night's game against Calgary - sibiriak would be Datsyuk. Sweet moves man, you owned that kid. Actual life experience beats Googling every time.