Ducks

[YoungGuns1340 1]

I love it when threads like this are made. Theyre always a great jinx.

Ducks lose 5-2 to the Stars this evening.

[Duck Guy 86]

I love it when threads like this are made. Theyre always a great jinx.

Ducks lose 5-2 to the Stars this evening.

haha ya... i had a feeling they would lose today anyways. They are not that good in Dallas. And 6 game winning streak was good to have. Ducks did not show up until the last minutes of the 3rd. Oh well. Well deserved rest until Wed. game vs the wings. That should be a good one.

[chrisdetroit 189]

i believe he is refering to the defensive core Pronger, Schneider, Niedermayer, Beauchemin, Huskins, O'Donell who are on paper, "probably the best in the NHL" come playoff time stats mean nothing... Anaheim will be one of the toughest teams to score on..

But nobody knows what will happen in the future. You have to base it on something or it is just an opinion. Hockey is not played on Paper. Just ask the San Jose Sharks.

[chrisdetroit 189]

The Ducks defense is better suited to handle a 7 game series than the Wings defense, because of their physicality. It's going to be tough for the Wings to handle that top line down low when they start cycling. That's why we need another physical D-man.

Another opinion. The Sharks also are better equiped to handle a 7 game series than the Wings. So are the Flames. But what happened last year

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

The Wings' top three is better than the Ducks' top three...and the same is true of the bottom three. Anaheim has better names but that's about all they have; Schneider and Beauchemin have been largely disappointing offensively this season and neither is better than average defensively. Even Pronger hasn't played to his abilities defensively, while the Wings have been getting a breakout year from Kronwall and solid defensive play from guys like Chelios and Rafalski.

How is this?

Lidstrom>Pronger

Rafalski<Niedermayer

Kronwall=Beauchemin

Lilja<Schnieder

Chelios=O'Donnell

Lebda=Huskins

In terms of play during games, stats dont always tell how good a player is. Our defence is as good as Anaheims or worse. You really under-value Beauchemin, he has a wicked shot and plays alot of PP and PK time, very underated defenceman.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

Like it or not, Anaheim is still the team to beat in the Western Conference. Even with the horrendous start, and a lack of goal-scoring all season, they are now leading the Pacific Division.

As mentioned before in this thread, the Ducks defense is the best in the league, in terms of depth and talent. We have all witnessed before that JS Giguere in January is not the same guy as the one in May.

Anaheim has all the ingredients of a well-constructed playoff team. They have goaltending, a terrific defense, experience, and the possibility still of adding Teemu Selanne. Guys like Getzlaf and Perry are better now than they were even a year ago.

Am I worried? Not yet, but I sure as hell don't want to see Anaheim come April or May. The Red Wings will need to do something at the deadline, because I'm not sure they can handle the Ducks in a seven game series at this point.

Edited January 21, 2008 by GoWings1905

[redwingrob 0]

Anaheim is only leading the Pacific because they have 3 games in hand on the sharks. As long as the Sharks go on the raod (where they can win) they should win 2 of 3 and be ahead of the Ducks. I dont think todays NHL.com reflects todays pounding of Anaheim by Dallas, so they wont be leading the division long.

Also, I saw the game last night live, and the bigger Sharks looked horrible. Which was great for me in my Wings jersey :-)

[Duck Guy 86]

with the stars win they are now leading in the pacific. The pacific is going to be a c-saw battle between the ducks sharks, and stars until the end of the season. I do not see anyone running away with this division. And I can easily see all 3 making the playoffs this year. and like always yotes and kings will not make playoffs that is my 2 cents..

[chrisdetroit 189]

Like it or not, Anaheim is still the team to beat in the Western Conference. Even with the horrendous start, and a lack of goal-scoring all season, they are now leading the Pacific Division.

As mentioned before in this thread, the Ducks defense is the best in the league, in terms of depth and talent. We have all witnessed before that JS Giguere in January is not the same guy as the one in May.

Anaheim has all the ingredients of a well-constructed playoff team. They have goaltending, a terrific defense, experience, and the possibility still of adding Teemu Selanne. Guys like Getzlaf and Perry are better now than they were even a year ago.

Am I worried? Not yet, but I sure as hell don't want to see Anaheim come April or May. The Red Wings will need to do something at the deadline, because I'm not sure they can handle the Ducks in a seven game series at this point.

No. LAST YEAR they were the team to beat. Since then they have replaced Penner, McDonald, Selanne and Bryzgalov with Weight, Schneider, and Bertuzzi. The result is that they are struggling to make the playoffs and are near last in the league in goal scoring.

Wake up man, they were good last year but are mediocre at best this year. Sure Getzlaff and Perry are better but that can't make up for the massive loses they experienced over the summer.

[chrisdetroit 189]

We don't need to be worried.

I want to play them in the playoffs this year so we can kick their asses. Anybody remember game 3? I think is was 5-0 on their ice.

Priceless....

[Duck Guy 86]

I want to play them in the playoffs this year so we can kick their asses. Anybody remember game 3? I think is was 5-0 on their ice.

Priceless....

ya that was the only game i went to that round... horrible.. Det/Ana 08 WCF just u watch

[GoWings1905 2,694]

No. LAST YEAR they were the team to beat. Since then they have replaced Penner, McDonald, Selanne and Bryzgalov with Weight, Schneider, and Bertuzzi. The result is that they are struggling to make the playoffs and are near last in the league in goal scoring.

Wake up man, they were good last year but are mediocre at best this year. Sure Getzlaff and Perry are better but that can't make up for the massive loses they experienced over the summer.

As far as I am concerned, they are the team to beat until someone proves otherwise. They have what 29 other teams want, including the Red Wings.

I don't really care honestly what the Ducks are doing in comparision to the Red Wings in January. Anaheim has proven before they are better than Detroit when it matters.

I am not sure how you get the Ducks are struggling to make the playoffs anyways. The Ducks are one point back in their division now, and six points ahead of the eighth place team in the conference. The only team with any substantial ground in all of the West are the Red Wings. The Ducks will make the playoffs, you can count on that.

Until the Red Wings, or any other team really, prove they can beat the Ducks when it matters, Anaheim is still the best team in my book.

Edited January 21, 2008 by GoWings1905

[Booster313 138]

The Ducks will be the Red Wings toughest test on the way to the cup, make no mistake about it, but I think we will win.

[mario 0]

Totally agree I am the biggest Red Wing fan and I think Anaheim is the team to beat I would hate for Detroit to play them in the first round

As far as I am concerned, they are the team to beat until someone proves otherwise. They have what 29 other teams want, including the Red Wings.

I don't really care honestly what the Ducks are doing in comparision to the Red Wings in January. Anaheim has proven before they are better than Detroit when it matters.

I am not sure how you get the Ducks are struggling to make the playoffs anyways. The Ducks are one point back in their division now, and six points ahead of the eighth place team in the conference. The only team with any substantial ground in all of the West are the Red Wings. The Ducks will make the playoffs, you can count on that.

Until the Red Wings, or any other team really, prove they can beat the Ducks when it matters, Anaheim is still the best team in my book.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

Totally agree I am the biggest Red Wing fan and I think Anaheim is the team to beat I would hate for Detroit to play them in the first round

Exactly. I love the Red Wings to death, but you can still be objective when it comes to hockey.

I want to be wrong about this, but until the Red Wings beat the Ducks in a seven-game series, I am standing by my point that Anaheim is a better team.

[Guest Crymson]

Exactly. I love the Red Wings to death, but you can still be objective when it comes to hockey.

I want to be wrong about this, but until the Red Wings beat the Ducks in a seven-game series, I am standing by my point that Anaheim is a better team.

Gee, that's original. Are we still in the 2006-2007 or something?

Also, defensive pessimism FTL. I thought we rooted that out of here last season.

[edicius 3,269]

But nobody knows what will happen in the future. You have to base it on something or it is just an opinion. Hockey is not played on Paper. Just ask the San Jose Sharks.

Exactly. If we were looking on paper, Pronger and Niedermayer would be two of the worst defensemen on the Ducks, stats-wise.

Plus/minus:

Pronger -1

Niedermayer 0

Meanwhile...

O'Donnell +4

Schneider +13

Stats on paper don't always mean a whole lot, unless you're using them to argue your point.

[eva unit zero 271]

How is this?

Lidstrom>Pronger

Rafalski<Niedermayer

Kronwall=Beauchemin

Lilja<Schnieder

Chelios=O'Donnell

Lebda=Huskins

In terms of play during games, stats dont always tell how good a player is. Our defence is as good as Anaheims or worse. You really under-value Beauchemin, he has a wicked shot and plays alot of PP and PK time, very underated defenceman.

Beauchemin is not better than average defensively. He is an offensive-minded defenseman who has not been playing without a Norris-caliber partner since he came to Anaheim. Well, this season his offense hasn't been there. You can't argue 'well, they picked up Schneider' because he was struggling offensively before Niedermayer came back, in the #3 role that he has been in. Oh, and Beauchemin is NOT better than Schneider. Nor is he as good as Kronwall. I would rank it like this:

Lidstrom>Niedermayer

Rafalski<Pronger

Kronwall>Schneider

Chelios=Beauchemin

Lilja=O'Donnell

Lebda>Huskins

I really don't get the fascination with Beauchemin...yes he has a hard shot. That only makes him a good player if he can actually use it for offense. And of course Beauchemin will be on the PK...Anaheim has seen Kent Huskins and Joe Dipenta play significant PK time this season. Playing on the PK means you are one of the better defensive players on your team at your position; it doesn' always have a bearing on how good you are defensively i nthe league. For example, Rob Blake, Jaro Modry, and Brad Stuart are all considered poor defensively. Yet all of them kill penalties. Hal Gill, Pavel Kubina, Bryan McCabe, Sergei Gonchar, and Tom Poti all play upwards of 3:45 per game on the PK...I wouldn't call any of them 'good' defensive players. Beauchemin is the same story.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Why I'm NOT worried:

#1 in the entire league in Penalties - yes, the most penalized team

#18 in the league in PK - Put these two together and obviously there is a problem

#10 in the league in goal differential - They have only scored 5 goals more than they have given up

#24 in the league in GFA

#17 in the league in SOG differential

So let's summerize. They are the take more penalties than any other team and don't have a decent PK. They also are near the bottom of the league in scoring and in fact give up almost the same number of goals that they score. Also, they are mediocre in SOG meaning that they don't have the puck much.

How'd all that work out for us last year? Ducks were one of the most penalized teams then too and we still lost last time I checked.

This is what I said when Niedermayer came back and i'm sticking to it: (From the Weight traded for Macdonald thread)

"From last season they are down more than a 1/2 goal per game. AND, they're giving up about 1/3 more goals per game. They aren't going to outscore last year's squad. That's a given. But, if Niedermayer can add some punch to their offense and help get their goals against back down to what they had last year, there's no reason why they won't win their fair share of games and then it'll be playoff time. They may not be pretty, but last year they featured guys like Moen, May and Thornton and they still beat us. IMO, we've never, ever lost a playoff series to a more talented team (maybe some Aves squads), but we have lost plenty against big, strong, tough teams and IMO, that's what Burke likes to build and that's still what he's got in Anaheim."

Now lets revisit the numbers

Prior to Niedermayer's return

15-15-4

Goal/Game

2.5

Goals against/Game

2.91

After Niedermayer's return

27-18-6 (that's 12-3-2)

Goals/Game

2.6

Goals against/Game

2.59

Goal against/Game last year

2.54

They are doing exactly what I said they would do. That Niedermayer would help their offense some and that they would get their GAA back down to last year's, which is exactly what they are doing. Since his return they are giving up almost 1/2 a goal per game less.

Factor in that Niedermayer and the Ducks will only gel more as the season goes along and those numbers are going to get even better.

The Ducks are the same squad as they were last year except they can't score nearly as much.

Big Deal. Anybody stop to look at what they did in the playoffs last year?

Against the Sens

GF/game 2.5

GA/game 2.25

Against the Wings

GF/game 2.4

GA/game 2.8

What does this tell us class? It tells us that you don't need to score 3 goals per game to win in the playoffs. Hell, we outscored the Ducks and still lost that series. Now look at their Goals for per game, identical to where they are now.

The playoffs are still going to be one with 3-2 and 2-1 games.

Anybody who doesn't worry about the Ducks is simply not respecting them. And any NHL coach will tell you that's your first mistake.

[Still MIGHTY 0]

Most of the stats for this season before 12/16 (addition of Weight/Scotty) I am personally throwing out. Before all that includes the London trip which absolutely destroyed them mentally and physically and the "Cup Hangover," and I know that you all know that the first part of any season following a Cup win is always a little tough. So coming off a short summer to go play 9 time zones away and then come 3 days after to go on a 3 game road trip in which every game was a home opener, really took a toll. Anyways

Since that date, this Ducks team has looked worlds different than the one that started the season. They are looking confident and looking like they've regained the swagger they played with for a majority of last season. 12-3-2 since then. Im still amazed that a team that was 15-15-4 at one point had vaulted themselves into 1st in the division, 2nd in the conference, and 3rd in the league (That Dallas game yesterday was an abomination. That was one of those that you take and immediately put behind you, because it was just that bad. Just a blip on the radar). I think that the Ducks are still the team to beat in the West besides the Red Wings. I'm really looking forward to this game on Wednesday to gauge where we really are in relation to the goal we want to achieve, Repeat. I'm convinced that we are perfectly fine division wise, it's the bigger things I'm worried about.

And BTW Teemu Selanne is going to make a decision within the next week or so on whether he'll be back or not. He's been skating in full gear and a Ducks practice uniform by himself at the Ducks practice facility which is 30-50 minutes (depending on traffic) away from his house in Coto de Caza. I dont think someone goes out of their way that much to not comeback, but thats just my feeling.

As for our defensemen. I've watched a few Wings game this year but not enough to rank your guys besides Lidstom, Rafalski, and the aging Cheliosauras. Here's my rankings for the Ducks D-men.

1. Niedermayer - 4 Cups, nuff said. Arguably one of the best defensemen of all time. Definitely the most decorated (overall not just Norris trophies). He's won every major championship a Canadian player can win.

2. Pronger - Long reach, physical, one hell of a slap shot, and a nasty disposition (a trait most Ducks fans have come to love )

3. Schneider - you guys know him, quick, makes mostly good decisions. Extremely good offensively. Most defensive mistakes he makes he makes up for by getting back into position quickly.

4. Huskins - most Ducks fans mark him as a poor-man's Scott Niedermayer. He's good positionally. Makes most plays with his stick. He's not afraid to carry the puck up-ice himself and bring it down low. He also just makes smart plays every time he has the puck. He's 14th in the NHL with a +14 rating. 2nd on the Ducks to Getzlaf. He's really a lot better than most of you are giving him credit for.

5. O'Donnell - Good positionally, physical some weird decisions from time to time, but he goes unnoticed for the most part, which is a good thing for D-men in my book.

6. Beauchemin - He's good, don't get me wrong. But early this season when he wasn't with Scott, he didnt look as comfortable or as smooth as he had the past 2 years. He's ok defensively. He makes some really good decisions and then some really bad ones. Most of his mistakes are saved because he has Scotty by his side. Has really good offensive upside.

7. DiPenta - There's not too much I can say, except he makes the safe play everytime. He's not amazing in any certain facet of the game. But he's a safe defenseman. He's kinda gotten lost in the shuffle once Nieds returned. I think he's been a healthy scratch since then. It's really too bad considering Carlyle loved Joey "DiPendable." He would love to play the guy but theres just noot a spot at this point. Plus he skates funny.

Thats my take

See you in May

Edited January 21, 2008 by Still MIGHTY

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Most of the stats for this season before 12/16 (addition of Weight/Scotty) I am personally throwing out. Before all that includes the London trip which absolutely destroyed them mentally and physically and the "Cup Hangover," and I know that you all know that the first part of any season following a Cup win is always a little tough. So coming off a short summer to go play 9 time zones away and then come 3 days after to go on a 3 game road trip in which every game was a home opener, really took a toll. Anyways

Since that date, this Ducks team has looked worlds different than the one that started the season. They are looking confident and looking like they've regained the swagger they played with for a majority of last season. 12-3-2 since then. Im still amazed that a team that was 15-15-4 at one point had vaulted themselves into 1st in the division, 2nd in the conference, and 3rd in the league (That Dallas game yesterday was an abomination. That was one of those that you take and immediately put behind you, because it was just that bad. Just a blip on the radar). I think that the Ducks are still the team to beat in the West besides the Red Wings. I'm really looking forward to this game on Wednesday to gauge where we really are in relation to the goal we want to achieve, Repeat. I'm convinced that we are perfectly fine division wise, it's the bigger things I'm worried about.

And BTW Teemu Selanne is going to make a decision within the next week or so on whether he'll be back or not. He's been skating in full gear and a Ducks practice uniform by himself at the Ducks practice facility which is 30-50 minutes (depending on traffic) away from his house in Coto de Caza. I dont think someone goes out of their way that much to not comeback, but thats just my feeling.

As for our defensemen. I've watched a few Wings game this year but not enough to rank your guys besides Lidstom, Rafalski, and the aging Cheliosauras. Here's my rankings for the Ducks D-men.

1. Niedermayer - 4 Cups, nuff said. Arguably one of the best defensemen of all time. Definitely the most decorated (overall not just Norris trophies). He's won every major championship a Canadian player can win.

2. Pronger - Long reach, physical, one hell of a slap shot, and a nasty disposition (a trait most Ducks fans have come to love )

3. Schneider - you guys know him, quick, makes mostly good decisions. Extremely good offensively. Most defensive mistakes he makes he makes up for by getting back into position quickly.

4. Huskins - most Ducks fans mark him as a poor-man's Scott Niedermayer. He's good positionally. Makes most plays with his stick. He's not afraid to carry the puck up-ice himself and bring it down low. He also just makes smart plays every time he has the puck. He's 14th in the NHL with a +14 rating. 2nd on the Ducks to Getzlaf. He's really a lot better than most of you are giving him credit for.

5. O'Donnell - Good positionally, physical some weird decisions from time to time, but he goes unnoticed for the most part, which is a good thing for D-men in my book.

6. Beauchemin - He's good, don't get me wrong. But early this season when he wasn't with Scott, he didnt look as comfortable or as smooth as he had the past 2 years. He's ok defensively. He makes some really good decisions and then some really bad ones. Most of his mistakes are saved because he has Scotty by his side. Has really good offensive upside.

7. DiPenta - There's not too much I can say, except he makes the safe play everytime. He's not amazing in any certain facet of the game. But he's a safe defenseman. He's kinda gotten lost in the shuffle once Nieds returned. I think he's been a healthy scratch since then. It's really too bad considering Carlyle loved Joey "DiPendable." He would love to play the guy but theres just noot a spot at this point. Plus he skates funny.

Thats my take

See you in May

I crunched the numbers and the Ducks are exactly where they were last year defensively. Niedermayer had the effect he was supposed to have. Now their D is playing like it should and its that defense and goaltending that won the Cup for you.

Some people here can only talk about scoring. Well they are crazy IMO. We've been able to score better than anyone for years and we got no cups to show for it since 2002.

The Ducks bother me because they are bigger, stronger and tougher than the Wings.

You can look at every roster we've played against the past 5 years and there are some absolute truths in there.

Specifically, that the Wings don't lose because they get outskilled. They lose because they get outmuscled. Look at the size of the Perry, Penner, Getlzaf line. Even though they went up against the best dman ever (yes, Lidstrom is the best ever) they still racked up goal after goal.

The playoffs are what the Ducks are built for. They're big, they're mean and they can move you out of the way and get to the net. Until the Wings learn to drill people into the ice in front of the net we will not win a Stanley Cup.

IMO: It'll be Ducks Wings again in the Western Finals.

[Reds4Life 51]

Ducks outmuscled Wings? No way. They were more lucky, if Wings defense was not decimated by injuries we would beat Ducks easily. We had bad luck and bad playing Lilja in the series.

[auxlepli 17]

Not worried. After all it's just one game.

The Kings are also playing well. I think they've won four of their last five games.

Edited January 21, 2008 by auxlepli

[swedishconnection 36]

As far as I am concerned, they are the team to beat until someone proves otherwise. They have what 29 other teams want, including the Red Wings.

I don't really care honestly what the Ducks are doing in comparision to the Red Wings in January. Anaheim has proven before they are better than Detroit when it matters.

I am not sure how you get the Ducks are struggling to make the playoffs anyways. The Ducks are one point back in their division now, and six points ahead of the eighth place team in the conference. The only team with any substantial ground in all of the West are the Red Wings. The Ducks will make the playoffs, you can count on that.

Until the Red Wings, or any other team really, prove they can beat the Ducks when it matters, Anaheim is still the best team in my book.

Why do a lot of people just hear the name Ducks and think that they are the team best built for the playoffs this year?

They are minus Selanne, Penner, and McDonald. They have added Weight, Bertuzzi, and Schneids. They got older, slower, smaller (Schneids), and less hungry (after all, the rest of the team did win it all...). They also got less deep in net, with Giggy being the only line of final defense. If he tweaks a leg, gets hit in the wrist, gets his tie stuck in the airplane toilet, whatever... they are S.C.R.E.W.E.D.

Point is I am not a blind homer. I know they can still ice a strong team. They win games with crushing defense, 1-0 or 2-1. However I just dont see how the team they have this year is still the team that can steamroll the Sens in the SCF. Or overturn the Wings in the WCF.

The only bright spots are the growth and realized potential of Getzlaf and Perry (oh how I loathe him). My man Schneids can still bury it once in a while, but without Lids and our forward core feeding him, ANYONE's point totals would decrease. And lets not forget, the man aint gettin any younger.

My final point, they just arent the same team they were in April last year. I just dont understand the comparisons. Anaheim's team last year proved they can beat Detroit when it matters. This year the Ducks of '08 will have to prove they can beat the Wings of '08 when it matters. Its a whole new playing surface this year, and we all know that the Wings at least will have a chance to raise the Holy Chalice.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Ducks outmuscled Wings? No way. They were more lucky, if Wings defense was not decimated by injuries we would beat Ducks easily. We had bad luck and bad playing Lilja in the series.

You're obviously entitled to your opinion.

However uneducated I think it is. Do you know the average height/weight of last year's rosters?

How many times have you watched the series since it ended?

My guess is you have no idea what you're talking about because you have homeritis right now and its affecting your judgement.

We got knocked off of pucks. Our small dmen couldn't contain any of the Ducks big forwards. The Getzlaf line circled the puck down low at free will and there was almost nothing we could do to break their cycle. They dominated play down low and worked us over.

You can't look at something like a hits given statistic to tell an accurate story of the physical play in that series.

We outscored the Ducks in that series and lost. That's because like all former Wings teams our skill is always capable from time to time of blowing a game open if the other team isn't on its game.

What we found out.....again, is that we can't beat a team that can combine skill with far superior physical play.

You watch the games again. Watch how we can't knock people off the puck. Watch how our guys bounce off of checks and end up on their cans. Watch how our dmen couldn't clear the crease out or get position on the much bigger, stronger Ducks forwards.

The Ducks had chumps like Moen, May and Thornton eating up minutes against the vaunted Red Wings and we still lost. That should tell you something. The playoffs are won with hard work down low, strength on the puck and being able to fight for one inch here and one inch there.

Other than the Lilja cough up and Franzen's weak ass attempt at clearing the puck luck really had nothing to do with it.

I'm a Redwing fan and will always think we're going to win. But blindly throwing the luck card out there as to why we lost smacks of idiocy and laziness IMO.