Wings among trade deadline losers

[hillbillywingsfan 794]

I would agree that the Wings were deadline losers. Largely because the teams around they got better (regardless if it was the Ducks getting Selanne and Scotty back, or the Stars getting Richards) and the Wings didn't do much of anything.

have you watched stu play? because watching him play and knowing when we get everyone back and add mac....i really don't think we were losers. i think the real losers were the pens giving up everything for a guy that wont even sign with them next season. thats a loser in my book.

[imisssergei 0]

have you watched stu play? because watching him play and knowing when we get everyone back and add mac....i really don't think we were losers. i think the real losers were the pens giving up everything for a guy that wont even sign with them next season. thats a loser in my book.

Yes I've seen Stuart play. He is doing a fine job.

But the Wings didn't address their biggest need: secondary scoring.

As I said before, Stuart is a great fit for the Wings, but the Wings are still going to have a hard time putting up goals in the playoffs.

The addition of Mac doesn't help scoring one bit. In fact, it will make the team slower, and not quite as efficient with the puck.

Getting the dmen back is moot.

The Wings going into this years playoffs aren't any better than last years team. I for one believe that this years team isn't as good as last years team.

[Rice 42]

You said his salary couldn't fit. I merely pointed out that it in fact could.

I never said his salary couldn't fit. I said his salary ruled him out of the Wings' consideration for the reasons I listed above.

[Rice 42]

Getting the dmen back is moot.

The Wings going into this years playoffs aren't any better than last years team. I for one believe that this years team isn't as good as last years team.

The Wings' offense stems from the defense. They scored enough goals in the playoffs last year but their offense began to go dry when Schneider went out, on top of Kronwall already being out.

The Wings entered the playoffs last year with two legitimate powerplay point men, Schneider and Lidstrom. This year, they should have four with Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, and Stuart.

[Wings_Fan_In_Exile 3]

What I have found curious since all the trade rumours started, is why people think Sammy and Hudler are such great trade bait. If we find them so expendible, what makes them so attractive to other teams?

Anyway, the true deadline winners and losers will become clearer as time passes. I have a hunch that the Penguins will come up losers when they don't win the cup and Hossa signs elsewhere this summer.

I wish we got Prospal or somebody like that, but glad we didn't mortgage our future for a rental. So glad!

It looks like Stuart might end up being a rental, but he was kinda cheap and did we ever need help on D.

I give the Wings a B -

[imisssergei 0]

I never said his salary couldn't fit. I said his salary ruled him out of the Wings' consideration for the reasons I listed above.

We could argue this all day. Bottom line is Richards could have fit in under the cap, and left room to sign others without having to gut the roster too much.

[imisssergei 0]

The Wings' offense stems from the defense. They scored enough goals in the playoffs last year but their offense began to go dry when Schneider went out, on top of Kronwall already being out.

The Wings entered the playoffs last year with two legitimate powerplay point men, Schneider and Lidstrom. This year, they should have four with Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, and Stuart.

The Wings offense does begin with the d. But without any real threat outside of ZDH, it makes things a lot easier for opposing teams to shut down.

Again, this years Wings are weaker than last years team. Out are Bert, Lang, Matty, Markov, and Calder.

In are Ralffy, Downey, Mac, Drake, and Stuart.

Regardless of the offensive output that Bert, Lang, and Calder produced in the playoffs, or lack thereof. They still gave the opposition another worry. Do you seriously think that Rex and Flip are anywhere near as threatening?

It boils down to the Wings aren't as good as they were last year, while the competition got better. Plain and simple.

[Guest Crymson]

We could argue this all day. Bottom line is Richards could have fit in under the cap, and left room to sign others without having to gut the roster too much.

Richards would have been the highest-paid player on the team. He is paid nearly $8m per year. The salaries of Cleary, Hudler, Franzen, Lebda, Chelios, Kopecky, Drake, Maltby, Lilja and Filppula combined do not exceed what Richards makes in one year. If you don't want to count, those guys comprise half of our total roster players.

So sorry, but Richards isn't worth that. He's worth nothing near $8m per year. That's money reserved for the likes of Zetterberg, Crosby, Datsyuk, Thornton et al. It would have been an absolutely hideous move to tie up that money for the next several seasons in a player who isn't worth it even remotely.. and at the same time, due to the very real thing known as the salary cap, this move would also have severely hamstrung our ability to retain any secondary scoring or secondary defense whatsoever.

Thus, I don't see your point. Mathematics and reality exist, buddy.

Edited March 4, 2008 by Crymson

[Guest Crymson]

The Wings offense does begin with the d. But without any real threat outside of ZDH, it makes things a lot easier for opposing teams to shut down.

Again, this years Wings are weaker than last years team. Out are Bert, Lang, Matty, Markov, and Calder.

In are Ralffy, Downey, Mac, Drake, and Stuart.

Regardless of the offensive output that Bert, Lang, and Calder produced in the playoffs, or lack thereof. They still gave the opposition another worry. Do you seriously think that Rex and Flip are anywhere near as threatening?

It boils down to the Wings aren't as good as they were last year, while the competition got better. Plain and simple.

Our goal-scoring is up from last year. Our goal-allowing is down. We dominated the league before injury Doesn't that speak for itself?

Your arguments do not anywhere have any merit.

[Rice 42]

We could argue this all day. Bottom line is Richards could have fit in under the cap, and left room to sign others without having to gut the roster too much.

I fail to see how you think spending $35 million on five players (with the remaining $20 million going to seventeen guys) wouldn't force the Wings to "gut the roster too much". With the deal you suggested, Kronwall and Holmstrom would still be on the roster.

So, that's $40.25 million on seven players -- leaving less than $15 million to spend on 15 guys with no "bargain" type players left since you dealt Filppula, Hudler, and Howard.

Say goodbye to Cleary too, because he's going to sign for around $3 million most likely so that's $12 million on 14 guys. Add in Draper for $2.128 million and there's about $10 million left for 13 guys.

Just get the idea out of your head. Richards wasn't coming here.

The Wings offense does begin with the d. But without any real threat outside of ZDH, it makes things a lot easier for opposing teams to shut down.

Again, this years Wings are weaker than last years team. Out are Bert, Lang, Matty, Markov, and Calder.

In are Ralffy, Downey, Mac, Drake, and Stuart.

Regardless of the offensive output that Bert, Lang, and Calder produced in the playoffs, or lack thereof. They still gave the opposition another worry. Do you seriously think that Rex and Flip are anywhere near as threatening?

It boils down to the Wings aren't as good as they were last year, while the competition got better. Plain and simple.

Alright, let's break it down.

Defense going into 06-07 playoffs:

Lidstrom-Markov

Schneider-Lilja

Lebda-Chelios

Defense going into 07-08 playoffs:

Lidstrom-Rafalski

Kronwall-Stuart

Chelios-Lilja

Pretty easily a better defense on paper. Lilja is out of the top four, Kronwall is in the lineup and improved, Rafalski is younger and better than Schneider, and this year's defense is more offensively capable than last year's.

The bottom-six forwards are a wash. I feel they're more gritty and experienced than last season's, though. What it really comes down to is the second line. Calder was a non-factor in the playoffs and was eventually scratched.

Lang had a very clutch (series-saving, most likely) goal, but I can't imagine he had teams worried like you suggest. He sucked defensively and floated the majority o the time. Filppula will be replacing him. Filppula is younger, better defensively, and will likely score more goals than Lang did last year (Filppula currently has 18 goals, Lang had 19 last year). Filppula was, IMO, better than Lang in the playoffs last year.

Bertuzzi, again, was a non-factor. Aside from his name, the guy was nothing more than a glorified bottom six grinder minus defensive capability. He, like Lang, floated the majority of the time. He had a few nice hits here and there but rarely contributed offensively. He had a key giveaway in the Anaheim series that I remember. Cleary by far outshined Bertuzzi last year and he's gotten better this year.

You're looking at the names on paper; opposing teams won't be. The second line was pretty useless in the post-season and the Wings still nearly managed to beat Anaheim. Does this mean I'm comfortable with our second line? No, but I wasn't comfortable with it last year either and the Wings got pretty damn far. You have to remember that Filppula, Hudler, Franzen, Cleary, and Samuelsson are all a year older and have playoff experience under their belts now. Things can't get much worse than Bertuzzi, Lang, and Calder were last year. The guys the Wings have now are younger and more motivated. Plus, the Wings are deeper at defense.

Edited March 4, 2008 by ARice89

[Rice 42]

Update on Fedorov:

Washington beats Boston 10-2. Fedorov fails to get a point and somehow manages to be -1.

Impressive.

[imisssergei 0]

Richards would have been the highest-paid player on the team. He is paid nearly $8m per year. The salaries of Cleary, Hudler, Franzen, Lebda, Chelios, Kopecky, Drake, Maltby, Lilja and Filppula combined do not exceed what Richards makes in one year. If you don't want to count, those guys comprise half of our total roster players.

So sorry, but Richards isn't worth that. He's worth nothing near $8m per year. That's money reserved for the likes of Zetterberg, Crosby, Datsyuk, Thornton et al. It would have been an absolutely hideous move to tie up that money for the next several seasons in a player who isn't worth it even remotely.. and at the same time, due to the very real thing known as the salary cap, this move would also have severely hamstrung our ability to retain any secondary scoring or secondary defense whatsoever.

Thus, I don't see your point. Mathematics and reality exist, buddy.

I won't argue for one second that Richards is overpaid. In fact, I posted exactly that in the thread about the trade that sent him to Dallas. There is no excuse for a player being paid that much to lead the league on the bottom side of +/-.

That being said, what justification do you have for Zetterburg, Datsyuk, and Thornton to be paid that but not Richards? Of that groupd you mentioned, Datsyuk is the only player to have even played in a SCF game. Thornton has never been out of the second round. Richards not only won a Cup, but was also the playoff MVP. He is a proven playoff performer.

If Richards comes to Detroit, it allows the Wings to move other guys, possibly Hank and his bad back.

[imisssergei 0]

I fail to see how you think spending $35 million on five players (with the remaining $20 million going to seventeen guys) wouldn't force the Wings to "gut the roster too much". With the deal you suggested, Kronwall and Holmstrom would still be on the roster.

So, that's $40.25 million on seven players -- leaving less than $15 million to spend on 15 guys with no "bargain" type players left since you dealt Filppula, Hudler, and Howard.

Say goodbye to Cleary too, because he's going to sign for around $3 million most likely so that's $12 million on 14 guys. Add in Draper for $2.128 million and there's about $10 million left for 13 guys.

Just get the idea out of your head. Richards wasn't coming here.

I never said Richards was. I just see Richards as a player that would fit very well in the Wings system.

Regardless, if you have Richards, you don't need Cleary, but who's to say he wouldn't take less to stay in Detroit and try to win a Cup? With Richards in the lineup you have a legit threat on the second line.

As for the payroll, Kenny is paid to figure that out. You don't think you could put together something? It's very manageable if you try. It's late, maybe tomorrow I'll throw a proposal together.

[Guest Crymson]

This discussion has dropped below the intelligence threshold at which I'm willing to continue participating.

[Vladiator 116]

This discussion has dropped below the intelligence threshold at which I'm willing to continue participating.

Well said. To end this thread, the Wings did not give up a lot to add a good and experienced D to bolster the depth. That trade was the best that the Wings could do. Everyone knows that the price goes up when Holland calls. Do not be disappointed as all of the forwards available went for too high of a price. The Wings learned from last year that depth on D is invaluable.

[40#1Fan 0]

Found this interesting from Sports Illustrated:

Usually, the little moves by the best teams make the biggest difference. So it appears that Detroit's Ken Holland helped himself the most. The veteran GM got a top-four defenseman in Brad Stuart, a player who can log tons of minutes, play both ways, and quarterback a power play. The Red Wings have an excellent power-play man in Nick Lidstrom, but he's been injured of late and though he's expected back, Stuart can easily slide between the first and second unit when called upon. He's also very good with the long first-strike pass, a play vital to a fast-moving, puck-control team like the Wings. Stuart also gives them nine defensemen with solid NHL experience.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writ...ne.notes/2.html