GM Rankings

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

the only thing that I actually stated was that Burke gets more credit than

he deserves for the very same reasons some ppl are judging Holland

- Burke inherited an extremely talented young core and completed it

with other ingredients. he did not built this team which is what some

writers try to credit him for.

and by similar logic I pointed to Bertuzzi and Weight as dumb trades.

if Holland's deal for Bertuzzi is used here as justification why he's

#3 why not considering Burke dropping bold $7.5M for two players

which are currently average at best?

why in this situation am I supposed to get the minus for Holland

for Bertuzzi trade. at the moment he pulled the trigger it was

a solid young prospect for a guy who once had a huge skill package,

was exactly filling team's needs and had also a lot to prove.

eventually, Bertuzzi wasn't that huge factor in Wings playoffs but

there were lot of reasons to do the trade Holland pulled the trigger.

I just don't buy this neat-picking when there's zero mentioning

of mediocre moves made by Burke

Burke is proactive and often makes highlight because of quick trades.

but there's been situation when his decisions weren't exactly the best

that's it. this is not saying Burke is bad or suck. it just is my opinion

that he also made some mistakes and in addition that he's yet to

show ability to keep the team good for longer time. Holland has

his Wings on top of the league for a number of years already.

despite lack of high draft picks, despite salary cup which significantly

undermined his effort of developing team, despite huge changes

with long-time Wings veterans retiring/moving, etc. seems like this

"missing data" was irrelevant for the reviewer. well, it is for me.

I wasn't trying to pick on you.

All i'm saying, in general to the entire forum is that I think Burke is great. I don't think he's as good as Kenny and he might not even be my #2 (well, considering he builds the kind of tough teams I like he might be my #2) but he is still good at what he does.

Yeah, the Bertuzzi signing was stiff. Why did he pay so much? Schnieder too. But both are having decent years. And, you have to look at it in the context of what would the Ducks be like if they didn't have Bertuzzi and Schnieder right now? It doesn't really matter what he paid them or how much he overpaid anymore. It is what it is and going into the playoffs both of those guys are on his roster and playing good hockey. That's what counts.

Not too defend Burke too much but this sort of blows doesn't it:

The Ducks will lose their 2008 1st round pick to Edmonton because they made it to the Cup final in 2007. That was a condition of the trade that sent Lupul and Smid to the Oil for Pronger.

However, the Ducks are getting the Oilers 1st rounder in 2008 because of the RFA signing of Penner. And, I believe they get the Oilers 2nd and 3rd rounders as well.

I'm not sure about this but I think the Ducks might have as many as 5 picks in the first 3 rounds of the 2008 draft.

[eva unit zero 271]

I wasn't trying to pick on you.

All i'm saying, in general to the entire forum is that I think Burke is great. I don't think he's as good as Kenny and he might not even be my #2 (well, considering he builds the kind of tough teams I like he might be my #2) but he is still good at what he does.

Yeah, the Bertuzzi signing was stiff. Why did he pay so much? Schnieder too. But both are having decent years. And, you have to look at it in the context of what would the Ducks be like if they didn't have Bertuzzi and Schnieder right now? It doesn't really matter what he paid them or how much he overpaid anymore. It is what it is and going into the playoffs both of those guys are on his roster and playing good hockey. That's what counts.

Not too defend Burke too much but this sort of blows doesn't it:

The Ducks will lose their 2008 1st round pick to Edmonton because they made it to the Cup final in 2007. That was a condition of the trade that sent Lupul and Smid to the Oil for Pronger.

However, the Ducks are getting the Oilers 1st rounder in 2008 because of the RFA signing of Penner. And, I believe they get the Oilers 2nd and 3rd rounders as well.

I'm not sure about this but I think the Ducks might have as many as 5 picks in the first 3 rounds of the 2008 draft.

Burke can't be credited with Niedermayer or Selanne...they are Ducks for the same price even if he isn't hired.

As far as Pronger, I believe that trade has more to do with Lowe and Burke having been friends and Burke having had an asset Lowe was interested in that Burke was willing to part with for Pronger. McDonald, Penner, Giguere, Perry, Getzlaf, Kunitz were all in the system already. Beauchemin so far has only played as a top-half d-man when he was paired with Scott Niedermayer...so the jury is still out on how good that deal was. Marchant is overpaid and terrible, and should have been dumped off for anything...or even nothing...before McDonald was traded for Weight. Bertuzzi is making abotu twice what he's worth, andi s a massive downgrade from Penner, who makes the same salary in Edmonton and is much younger. Bryzgalov was let go for nothing.

So what exactly has Burke done in Anaheim that was a result of his skill as a GM that was a GOOD thing?

[egroen 384]

Re: Holland and his early critique.

That's exactly it. It was not that impressive for Holland to win in '98. Good job, for sure... but I never would have rated him in the top 10 of GMs in the league. 2002 -- ok, granted he had an open pocket book but he went out there and got those extra deals done and it paid off. I give Holland a lot of credit for that.

But he has really proven his merit since then. Only Lou L., has been able to come close to matching Holland's success pre and post salary cap. It is not easy to maintain an elite team for 3 years, let alone the 10 Holland has managed.... and we are talking extremely elite. He has had three coaches and saw the entire face of the team turn a page. Yet the Red Wings have kept on winning.

Maybe Burke has not been "lucky" with some of these deals and odd shennanigans... but it will be a while of sustained excellence before I am ready to include him in the highest echelon of general managers in hockey.

[Reds4Life 51]

Well, Kenny is still no.1 for me

[DaKineMaui 8]

However, Holland should be number 1. If the Bertuzzi thing was an issue, come on... At the time the deal was done, everyone was speculating how brilliant of a move it was, and how much of a manipulater Holland was for getting Bertuzzi the way we did. Now we see that Bertuzzi was a "flop" (which I don't think he was), and Shawn Matthias turned out to be a top prospect, it is suddenly a bad move. Holland hasn't done anything but proved his ability to maintain his team as still the best team in the NHL, even in the salary cap era.

Using the same logic, Kenny should get points for 'recovering' so quickly from this huge 'blunder' no? (I.E. "I really blew it this time, and now we're set to win the President's Trophy?" Waitaminute!

aloha